pottery-shipwreck or not?

BeachComber7

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Treasure Coast-Florida
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I have seen pottrry that looks lIke that, that is the native people before Europeans came here .
 

While Superficially It does look like Native American pottery.. I personally have handled thousands of pieces from the state of Florida..local Tribes like.. Ais,Jega,Tecesta, Hobe..ect.. I've never seen an interior of something with that circumference with a finish or lack thereof like that piece. There would be visible tooling marks on a piece that large I will show a couple. A red one as well. What is the info on where it was found..other items..ect..?something to go on besides the photo. Coarse earthenware was not limited to native americans.

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Joan..I know you have held native pottery but you posted it here that tells me you don't think it is the same. Is the texture the same? Is it the weight you would expect for a piece that size? Also I don't see a rim...if you have a piece that large and its just a body section with no rim it would have been a very large coocking pot The large cooking pots were almost exclusively drab.
 

So far, I have a few opinions that this piece is Native American. It is not a common find along our beaches but it does happen on occasion.
It may not even be from this area.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?
 

Post it in the native American artifacts forum. You will get more info.
 

I agree with you that it is made by indiginous peoples here. I have found a similar piece, (though much smaller) just south of Fort Lauderdale. I was unsure its origin/age at first, but later I found bone tools, bone adornments, and stone tools too. The context alone leads me to believe this is native american made. I will try to find that peice, it is somewhere in my collection. It definitely had the rough, unfinished surface, redish-orange outide, and black center. I will post pictures for comparison if I can find the thing. Nice Find!

Jason
 

Did it look like this? This is glades ware that is common to the area you described. I picked this up yesterday.

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Yep, very similar. Maybe a little more bright orange colored...the color was the initial thing that made me questions its age...but finding the other old stuff nearby gave me some confidence that it might be older. Also, it had the same rough, primitive surface on the outside as the larger piece posted by BeachComber7.

I found some pieces identical to your near Holiday Park. I used to fish up in the canals out there, and hopped off the boat to check around one of the few flat beaches in the area. Found 2 or 3 shards just like that, I assume they were from Jeaga or Miami tribes? Before moving to hollywood, I had only found the tan AIS stuff up around Sebastian and Ft. Pierce. Then I went to Jupiter and found JEaga and Tequesta stuff. Now I'm in Tampa trying to study the Caloosa's and find artifacts from them. I'll just about have a Florida Indian trifecta. LOL
 

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Very nice. I'm in Ais territory. They made some nice check stamped pottery. I know this is probably the wrong forum but it may still help someone I.D. a shard if they come across one since they are found in the same area as shipwreck items at times. Belive it or not I still don't think her piece is native.

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My opinion is that it looks to be part of a tile (in spanish: teja) they we used to cover the roofs of the colonial houses.
 

I belive your on the right track.
 

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I have seen similar examples found along Indian River. Of course, as GatorBoy indicated, there are variants of St. Johns Orangeware manufactured by the Glades Culture, although I don't recall it ever being referred to as Orangeware in the South Florida Tequesta and Calusa Region. However, if you can find it in references, the late Bert Mowers did a study of Everglade ceramics, thus naming a few new variants. A paper of the same was published sometime in the early 1960's by Mowers. At one site where FPL hired me to conduct a survey, I dug two variations of Glades Plain and Glades Grittyware; also, some with Orange exterior. Other variants included Gray and brown check stamped, a variety commonly manufactured in the Upper St. Johns Valley. Of course, the site was loaded with shell tools such as celts and strombus giga columella (center-shaft of conch shell sometimes used as hoes). Also in the mix was a serpentine hammerstone; and historically, a cannonball flattened on one end due to its continuous use to pound and grind the coontie root to make flour. There were a few iron knife blades; a broken 1850's wine bottle; and, a few beads that dated up until the 1890's. It is interesting if what you have is tile. Makes one wonder if tile was used on cabin, or cookshed roof on a spanish ship. Notably, after the treasure cookoff picnic, I spent only one hour searching along a bluff and recovered a few pieces of pottery. It is gray center and black exterior. Because it is so similar to the natural midden dirt washing out onto the beaches and its rough texture, I suspect it may not be manmade. It may very well be pieces of clay and midden matrix, exposed, dried by the sun, and washed out of the dune by tidal action. Of course, what you found appears manmade.
 

Good stuff SouthernDigger! Is your name Robert? That's Rhetorical no need to answer. Just thought I would show some orange and some black/buff. Its my personal opinion that the spread of pottery through trade routes was just coincidental since the goods that were carried were in the pots.

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According to a professional who was able to examine the piece thru several photographs, I have copied/pasted his response below.
The piece dates between 1600-s and 1700's. It's a keeper! So it seems it is a mix of an Indian Artifact that was off a shipwreck.
"what you have is indeed a piece of earthenware typical of the Spanish colonial period. Likely the side of what was known as an Olive Jar, a direct descendant of the old roman amphora of the Mediterranean. Not a common find but not unexpected."

Scuba can you post your pieces? Thanks Southern Digger and Gator for your input as well.
 

Your welcome. Not to be a pooper..and I might be dead wrong..but I disagree with the info as it pertains to the piece in question. Again..just my opinion.
 

Just for the sake of knowlage I hope it is an olive jar section and I have learned something new here. I'm curious who gave that opinion. be that as it may I'm going to post a few olive jar fragments of my own. I've seen many different styles and colors also some with the interiors lead glazed green. One thing that was common to the examples I have seen was the visible method of manufacture... which was either coil and smooth or wheel. I'm just not seeing that on the piece in question. But what do I know. 8-)
 

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From info gathered, this was not made on a wheel. Thinking outside the box, I would imagine, that being the entire east coast is a
few thousand miles long plus let's include Havana, Cuba, this piece of pottery-be it a tray or part of an olive jar- could have come from
anywhere.
It is not indicative or typical of the area we are in, we both know that, so it came from somewhere else and deposited here. How, is up to
the imagination since we won't ever know. Maybe it came from a wreck that got stirred up during the storm or from a midden where
it was possibly brought to them by ship goers as a gift or token. We'll never really know. Being that it is not the first of its kind to be found
here, it leaves a bit of mystery for us. Just because it does not look like other stuff found here does not mean it does not have meaning
or history for the area. I'm certainly not going to question the divers or their contacts as to what and where, they know more about this than
I ever will and I am happy to get their input, that they were able to shed some light on the object and share their knowledge.
 

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