pondering the minelab equinox please chime in multi freq mode

[Truth]

Yeah, the OP is old news. Calabash is way past that now and if you have seen his videos, you know I likes that Equinox Multi IQ.

BTW folks - Keep Calabash and his family in your thoughts and prayers - Florence went right through his town. He is out of harm's way and safe, but who knows what kind of cleanup he is facing.

Take care, CD. Hope you get through this unscathed.

Believe me the aftermath is always worst then the hurricane itself.

 

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[CharlesUpstateNY]

Dunno if you were responding to me Charles even though you quoted me, but first I don't deal with crown caps at all on the Equinox, in AM I hear them just fine for what they are and walk right over them. Pretty obvious IMO, don't need a fancy display to figure those out. Like I said, the display is only secondary to me with superior audio, so fancy visuals are just extraneous info. I have no dog in the hunt on TID, feel free to debate Smartfind Displays with those who want 99 TID resolution, I honestly have no opinion on that, as I said above. Take it or leave it, AFAIC as long as audio and price are unaffected.

I want to reject crown caps so I can dig what's under them.

 

[67GTA]

I can give you an unsatisfactory answer, but as you are a fan of Clive's book, the answer lies in the tonal sublties not the VDI. Can slaw will give you similar VDI's and "base" tones but to me it sounds more hollow or even distorted than a thick chunk of lead, even if we are talking a mangled, fired minie. The density and mass of the lead target dominates the similarities in specific conductivity between larger can slaw and lead.
The effect is subtle and you will dig can slaw occasionally, but with swing hours it will become quite obvious.

Problem is there is a lot more can slaw than minies out there and site selection is key. The plowed farm field sites that I frequent that have relatively plentiful minie balls because they were CW era encampments with firing ranges, are mostly devoid of can slaw, but the difference between that and a hit on a solid minie ball becomes pretty obvious. Keep at it and perhaps you can set up a test garden to help train your ear.

Is that in 50 tones? I am waiting for mine to get delivered. Trying to learn what I can before then and lessen the learning curve because I am upgrading from the sounds of an AT Pro. I see relics hunters recommend 2 or 5 tones with the Equinox. I'm guessing that is because they don't understand the sound nuances? I have watched videos of Minelab detectors and always wondered if the "weird" noises they make were for a specific reason.

 

[vferrari]

Is that in 50 tones? I am waiting for mine to get delivered. Trying to learn what I can before then and lessen the learning curve because I am upgrading from the sounds of an AT Pro. I see relics hunters recommend 2 or 5 tones with the Equinox. I'm guessing that is because they don't understand the sound nuances? I have watched videos of Minelab detectors and always wondered if the "weird" noises they make were for a specific reason.

Yes. 50 Tones give you the best audio nuances, but it is not for everyone so a lot of folks go 2-tone or 5-tone and rely more heavily on visual TID or dig it all. 5 tone can give you some clues too, but they are probably more subtle. There are also other cues too, like visual TID stability. For example, slaw, depending on how distorted it is and it's orientation to the coil can give you more visual TID instability whereas a minie would tend to be more stable. Finally, pinpoint mode is highly useful in determining size and depth of the target and can eliminate junk such as probable smashed AL cans. HTH.

 

[vferrari]

I want to reject crown caps so I can dig what's under them.

I don't trust magic filters that can make certain targets invisible yet can somehow reveal the masked target underneath but I guess I haven't used the detector you are referring to. I use AM and don't use iron bias on the Equinox for that reason. If the crown cap is masking something then I should be able to hear the difference between a lone crowncap vs. one that is hiding a legit target. I am primarily talking beach hunting here because that is where I encounter the most crown caps.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

I don't trust magic filters that can make certain targets invisible yet can somehow reveal the masked target underneath but I guess I haven't used the detector you are referring to. I use AM and don't use iron bias on the Equinox for that reason. If the crown cap is masking something then I should be able to hear the difference between a lone crowncap vs. one that is hiding a legit target. I am primarily talking beach hunting here because that is where I encounter the most crown caps.

I have dug many a silver half dollar from under bottle caps, with bottle caps rejected. Turn off the bottle cap rejection and the silver half dollar vanishes. I'm talking inland hunting not beach, far more crown caps inland.

 

[vferrari]

That may be your inland situation, my inland experience involves mainly hunting large acre plowed fields for relics so bottlecaps and and even can slaw are few and far between. Iron junk, square nails, and ration can debris topped with off the charts mineralization are the challenge. So site context, objectives, the detectors we have cut our teeth on heavily color our individual perceptions on what features are and aren't useful, I suppose. Guess I'm more geared to audio than display gymnastics. I thought the Deus X-Y screen was simply redundant to the Deus audio cues, I could easily hear the distortion in the target audio the X-Y screen was displaying on junk targets, so I went back to the basic TID display on Deus. The similar audio cues and the visual TID stability vs. Deus makes me comfortable with the Equinox interface.

I guess ignorance is bliss as I don't know what I am missing with regards to smart find displays (and you don't have to tell me how crude the Deus X-Y screen is compared to smart find). Sounds like a great feature based on your description, though. All those silver halves found under bottlecaps not to mention all those you probably found that weren't masked. I could only dream of such success and such awesome sites to hunt.

We can only speculate as to why ML kept the visual ID display basic TID and clock dial, but I suppose it had something to do with cost (you don't have custom screen choices with a dedicated old school LCD layout vs. a more costly video type display as would be likely required for a smart screen setup) and keeping the TIDs to simply conductivity vice the Fe and CO paradigm withoutout scads of nested menus and customization options simplifies things for the majority of detectorists. This approach enables wider acceptance of a value priced detector with some pretty sophisticated tech under the hood. I personally agree with the choice of a simpler user interface with sophisticated audio and I think ML could have taken it a step further by allowing gold mode VCO pitch audio and True threshold to be settings options for the other modes a la pitch mode on Deus. Hopefully, ML will satisfy all of our features needs and wants in a future, higher-end Multi IQ detector iteration with more options, but I'm pretty happy with the 800 as it is.

 

[67GTA]

Yes. 50 Tones give you the best audio nuances, but it is not for everyone so a lot of folks go 2-tone or 5-tone and rely more heavily on visual TID or dig it all. 5 tone can give you some clues too, but they are probably more subtle. There are also other cues too, like visual TID stability. For example, slaw, depending on how distorted it is and it's orientation to the coil can give you more visual TID instability whereas a minie would tend to be more stable. Finally, pinpoint mode is highly useful in determining size and depth of the target and can eliminate junk such as probable smashed AL cans. HTH.

I guess I will have a small learning curve with the sounds. Sounds similar to the AT Pro but without the nuanced sounds. The AT series sounds are all the same but the VDI numbers will jump around with can slaw and most trash. Bottle caps have an iron grunt when you wiggle off the edge, and the pinpoint can be used to judge the size/shape.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

It is unwise to discount the value of an Explorer TID screen when hunting the most iffy, difficult, co-located targets. And out of those the worst of the bunch...tones won't help you.

I hunted in NY for 10 years, the area dates back to the 1600's fort so several hundred years of iron and nails and trash. Farm fields, cellar holes, woods, parks, miles of field stone rock walls. Its been pounded to death for 40 years so many of the good finds are the most difficult to sniff out.

Question: What target gives an iron tone and nearly textbook rusty nail TID that is only given away by the TID cursor? Turns out Spanish half reals, worn paper thin flat silver, and colonial buttons to name a few.

That's how BAD a good target can be in the matrix of rusty nails, rotted to nothing iron globs, and deep targets hiding in the mineralization. Because there are so few easy targets left I spent a fair amount of time hunting these.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Don't mean to barge in on the Equinox thread here but got thinking as well before purchasing one my self.. going back to Tesoro machines will smack down on the smallest metal and at a fair distance as well, take the Compadre for instance at 12Khz a killer lil unit that packs a punch on the smallest stuff for most of the higher end machines even at this frequency for small bb's etc..you stand any other machine against it for it's consistancy light weight and price as a go to machine in the back of your trunk..that is what I use for small items and still till this day can't get over the smallest finds things this unit has grabbed me vs the other machines I still use today as a analog no display, dig everything unit.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Forgot to mention my Compadre is the 8" setup can't imagine what others are getting with the 5" coil if it is even more sensitive on really small items..will take that over to the Tesoro Forum. Cheers everyone!

 

[vferrari]

If you want to talk small targets, this is what I recovered at the beach with the Equinox 11" coil. Target wise, it is mostly junk (earring backs, pieces of small metal) except for the gold turtle charm, but I recovered them and recorded them around the dime to show just how small targets can bang on the Equinox. The registered in the high single digits to low teens.

 

[vferrari]

I guess I will have a small learning curve with the sounds. Sounds similar to the AT Pro but without the nuanced sounds. The AT series sounds are all the same but the VDI numbers will jump around with can slaw and most trash. Bottle caps have an iron grunt when you wiggle off the edge, and the pinpoint can be used to judge the size/shape.

Bottle caps will do the same grunt and give you flutey tones.

Slaw is a little harder to pick up on. But there are cues, especially if the VDI varies. Pull Tabs are the hardest to discern because they are usually stable TIDs and are right in the Nickel range. Nickels usually hit hard and stable at 13 but do sometimes come in at 12 or 14 (rarely) whereas pull tabs are rarely 13 dead on but can come in anywhere from 12 to 15. If I want to play the odds I just dig all 13s or maybe 12 to 14s.

 

[vferrari]

It is unwise to discount the value of an Explorer TID screen when hunting the most iffy, difficult, co-located targets. And out of those the worst of the bunch...tones won't help you.

I hunted in NY for 10 years, the area dates back to the 1600's fort so several hundred years of iron and nails and trash. Farm fields, cellar holes, woods, parks, miles of field stone rock walls. Its been pounded to death for 40 years so many of the good finds are the most difficult to sniff out.

Question: What target gives an iron tone and nearly textbook rusty nail TID that is only given away by the TID cursor? Turns out Spanish half reals, worn paper thin flat silver, and colonial buttons to name a few.

That's how BAD a good target can be in the matrix of rusty nails, rotted to nothing iron globs, and deep targets hiding in the mineralization. Because there are so few easy targets left I spent a fair amount of time hunting these.

Chuck all I'm saying is that the Equinox is what it is, which is a pretty decent machine at a great price point with simplistic but functional visual TID and great audio. It doesn't have smart find so all I can do is agree with you that smart find is awesome and that the Equinox would be incredible with it if it makes you feel better. I am just not sure the added complexity and cost that might result is what the Equinox is all about. In fact, I'm impressed that ML is stepping up to the plate and supporting the Equinox less than a year out of the gate by releasing a firmware upgrade in an attempt to address some minor flaws. How long would that take with a more complex UI?

I know there are many detectors that can out hunt the Equinox in specific difficult situations. That's why I use a PI as my primary in really bad dirt. I believe you when you say the Explorer smart find will sniff out the those keepers that fool you that they are just another nail and that sometimes that may mean that the Equinox becomes a dig it all machine. But for the 90% of other situations it delivers the goods, and I have been able to walk past those bottlecaps pretty easily without too much fear that I also missed out on a masked target.

I suppose ML will figure out a way to produce a "higher end" Equinox with more bells and whistles or a Multi IQ based CTX or eTrac or Explorer as their next major product release to appeal to the die hard FBS crowd.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

Impressive even on the 11" coil, Thanks vferrari. I can pick those same items up with my Compadre...even some at but maybe not all at the beach. I have no doubt the Equinox can perform well in either case, hence why I may consider the 600 or 800 next year. But as a go to unit next to price I have no problem with the price/punch the Compadre offers on sensitivity along with it's lifetime warranty and it's blabsh. Please those who are trading everything in for just the Equinox...think again be sure to have around a trusty beep and dig analog unit.

 

[vferrari]

Impressive even on the 11" coil, Thanks vferrari. I can pick those same items up with my Compadre...even some at but maybe not all at the beach. I have no doubt the Equinox can perform well in either case, hence why I may consider the 600 or 800 next year. But as a go to unit next to price I have no problem with the price/punch the Compadre offers on sensitivity along with it's lifetime warranty and it's blabsh. Please those who are trading everything in for just the Equinox...think again be sure to have around a trusty beep and dig analog unit.

I consider the Equinox and Deus as sophisticated Beep and dig digital machines that just happen to have visual ID assist. Beside the reliability and straight ahead analog functionality of the Tesoros, their circuit simplicity and minimal filtering enables them to be killer fast in recovery speed. It has taken some significantly sophisticated digital processing horsepower for the likes of ML and XP to emulate that fast and nuanced audio aspect of the Tesoros in a digital machine while enabling the advanced discrimination capabilities, and in the case of the Equinox, the versatility to handle a wide variety of detecting situations via the multi frequency and signal processing wizardry of Multi IQ. Agree there us something to be said for having a beep dig as a backup, but it takes a lot of patience and swing hours to really learn the audio language whether it be a Tesoro or Equinox. If one is used to visual ID (especially the more sophisticated visuals or IDs associated with the "high end" Minelab CTX's and eTracs, and Explorers as described by Charles or the high end Whites machines) as the primary means of detection with fewer audio tones used, then it is harder to get used to 50 tone audio or Full tone audio ID, especially if you have visual ID to fall back on. Two-tone is a great iron unmasking tool but requires Visual ID assist if you don't want to dig it all. Similarly, the VCO pitch like audio with true threshold will really ferret out small or deep whisper keepers, but again visual ID is a must if you want to make dig decisions.

There are few absolutes or simple answers in detecting success, suffice to say that detecting experience, patience, perseverence, familiarity with your machine, research, and site selection all tend to trump technology alone, in my opinion.

 

[vferrari]

Impressive even on the 11" coil, Thanks vferrari. I can pick those same items up with my Compadre...even some at but maybe not all at the beach. I have no doubt the Equinox can perform well in either case, hence why I may consider the 600 or 800 next year. But as a go to unit next to price I have no problem with the price/punch the Compadre offers on sensitivity along with it's lifetime warranty and it's blabsh. Please those who are trading everything in for just the Equinox...think again be sure to have around a trusty beep and dig analog unit.

I consider the Equinox and Deus as sophisticated Beep and dig digital machines that just happen to have visual ID assist. Beside the reliability and straight ahead analog functionality of the Tesoros, their circuit simplicity and minimal filtering enables them to be killer fast in recovery speed.

It has taken some significantly sophisticated digital processing horsepower for the likes of ML and XP to emulate that fast and nuanced audio aspect of the Tesoros in a digital machine while enabling the advanced discrimination capabilities, and in the case of the Equinox, the versatility to handle a wide variety of detecting situations via the multi frequency and signal processing wizardry of Multi IQ.

Agree there is something to be said for having a beep dig as a backup, but it takes a lot of patience and swing hours to really learn the audio language whether it be a Tesoro or Equinox. If one is used to visual ID (especially the more sophisticated visuals or IDs associated with the "high end" Minelab CTX's and eTracs, and Explorers as described by Charles or the high end Whites machines) as the primary means of detection with fewer audio tones used, then it is harder to get used to 50 tone audio or Full tone audio ID, especially if you have visual ID to fall back on.

Audio doesn't always have to be sophisticated though and less is sometimes more as far as audio is concerned and detecting success, but that also requires more reliance on visualmID. Two-tone is a great iron unmasking tool but requires Visual ID assist if you don't want to dig it all. Similarly, the VCO pitch like audio with true threshold will really ferret out small or deep whisper keepers, but again visual ID is a must if you want to make dig decisions.

That is not to say that primarily visual ID machines can't get it done. That is obviously not true. And there are some pretty sophisticated visual interfaces that are very powerful tools. I think seamlessly marrying both sophisticated audio with decent and reliable visual ID are a killer combo.

That being said, though I personally tend to over focus on technology and the machine (which is natural in the brand forums) because I enjoy talking about it, I think here are few absolutes or simple answers in detecting success, suffice to say that detecting experience, patience, perseverence, familiarity with your machine, research, and probably most importantly, site selection all tend to trump technology alone, in my opinion. Put me out in a field with the most sophisticated detector in the world, even if I know how to use it, and the experienced detectorists I know here and elsewhere like Smokey, Calabash, Terry, Charles, and a host of others will mop me off the floor even if they are just swinging a broom handle with a pinpointer stuck to the end of it. Lol.

 

[doggoneitdignit]

I consider the Equinox and Deus as sophisticated Beep and dig digital machines that just happen to have visual ID assist. Beside the reliability and straight ahead analog functionality of the Tesoros, their circuit simplicity and minimal filtering enables them to be killer fast in recovery speed.

It has taken some significantly sophisticated digital processing horsepower for the likes of ML and XP to emulate that fast and nuanced audio aspect of the Tesoros in a digital machine while enabling the advanced discrimination capabilities, and in the case of the Equinox, the versatility to handle a wide variety of detecting situations via the multi frequency and signal processing wizardry of Multi IQ.

Agree there is something to be said for having a beep dig as a backup, but it takes a lot of patience and swing hours to really learn the audio language whether it be a Tesoro or Equinox. If one is used to visual ID (especially the more sophisticated visuals or IDs associated with the "high end" Minelab CTX's and eTracs, and Explorers as described by Charles or the high end Whites machines) as the primary means of detection with fewer audio tones used, then it is harder to get used to 50 tone audio or Full tone audio ID, especially if you have visual ID to fall back on.

Audio doesn't always have to be sophisticated though and less is sometimes more as far as audio is concerned and detecting success, but that also requires more reliance on visualmID. Two-tone is a great iron unmasking tool but requires Visual ID assist if you don't want to dig it all. Similarly, the VCO pitch like audio with true threshold will really ferret out small or deep whisper keepers, but again visual ID is a must if you want to make dig decisions.

That is not to say that primarily visual ID machines can't get it done. That is obviously not true. And there are some pretty sophisticated visual interfaces that are very powerful tools. I think seamlessly marrying both sophisticated audio with decent and reliable visual ID are a killer combo.

That being said, though I personally tend to over focus on technology and the machine (which is natural in the brand forums) because I enjoy talking about it, I think here are few absolutes or simple answers in detecting success, suffice to say that detecting experience, patience, perseverence, familiarity with your machine, research, and probably most importantly, site selection all tend to trump technology alone, in my opinion. Put me out in a field with the most sophisticated detector in the world, even if I know how to use it, and the experienced detectorists I know here and elsewhere like Smokey, Calabash, Terry, Charles, and a host of others will mop me off the floor even if they are just swinging a broom handle with a pinpointer stuck to the end of it. Lol.

Ha! Nicely put, especialy on the importancy on audio signal single tone vs the two tones, VCO pitch like the Tejon for example. These differences on how the ground affects these targets say even with the new Multi IQ frequencies changes with what that detector picks up can be a learning curve even for the Equinow along with visual display combo I believe and read what Calabash has noted how the visual display is just an added bonus for sure. This can added value when deciphering targets signal readings with tone with proper settings like sensitivity, threshold, ground balance etc.. depending on your hunting areas along with that curve.

I agree the skillsmanship more important, and takes time.

Again spoken like a true leader and if I may add I see yourself who belongs to the the Church of the Detectorists users when it comes to technology especially what yourself and I and many others get out of this fine sport and what the future has to offer ahead.

To end with your last note. I would'nt be so modest I see the time you put in this forum and I imagine your not to far behind the rest of the pack.

As always great words. Thanks and like hearing what you and all the other experienced and non experiencied users have to say. I do learn alote from TN.

Cheers Friend!

 

[Calabash Digger]

Hes a good detectorist and one of the most technical guys I know.

 

[vferrari]

High praise coming from "The Button Master". Much appreciated, my friend, and right back at you. Hope that awful storm didn't mess up our plans for the fall. But that seems trivial thinking about all the folks down your way who are dealing with awful circumstances.