✅ SOLVED please help what is this????

[jbbj]

Hi I was in Harford ny md an old stone wall out in the woods and abt football field away i found this ball its not metal and dont stick to a magnet...I cleaned it up the best I could I can push a whole in it with the end of a needle...so must be lead in guessing...I'm lost any one know?

 

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[clovis97]

It is a lead bullet for a muzzle loader. Probably not that old, IMO.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

You think it's lead but not metal? Hoo boy.

Looks like a lead muzzleloader ball to me as well. NY currently has a muzzleloader big game season (and they are always OK for small game) and I was out practicing today. Old technology does not necessarily mean old artifacts.

 

[jbbj]

Thank you very much for the help ...how can u tell how old these are if I find any more?

 

[BosnMate]

Lead oxidizes into a white powder patina on the outside of the ball. Usually you can say the heavier the patina the older the ball, but that doesn't always hold true. Also context as to where it is found helps with aging. Other than that, lead can be very difficult to figure the age.

 

[jbbj]

So I shouldn't have cleaned the oxidation off of it used clr and other cleaner to get it off lol

 

[Petrie502]

So I shouldn't have cleaned the oxidation off of it used clr and other cleaner to get it off lol

No you should not have done that!! NEVER do that! If you go to today's finds look for my post from today called special civil war site, I just posted a ton of minis and muskets, if your patina was similar to mine it WAS old! However you can't really say that now!!

 

[TNGUNS]

jbbj, we usually leave the patina on lead relics as it is a simple indicator of age. Very few people who muzzle load hunt in todays world shoot round balls. They use conical bullets or saboted bullets. Here are some examples for ya.
conical.
Sabot
I have found the round balls several times and it is likely they are old. Since you cleaned yours I would think the same.

 

[Petrie502]

I know a lot of people who hunt primitive with round ball muskets and primitive bows including myself, so u can't really say that! He knows if there was patina but we do not, Maybe he got a picture of it before he cleaned it!! I hope so

 

[TNGUNS]

Petrie502, Maybe I should have said less common. But I manage a gun range here in Dayton TN (Bet you would have never guessed ha ha) but probably less than 5% of the muzzleloaders that I see used for hunting use patched round balls. May be more common where you are. Including an example of a few round balls I found by an old mussel camp on the TN River. They are mixed in with other stuff but you get the picture. Left of the shoe tap.

 

[TNGUNS]

Tried to edit and remove the bottom pic as I accidentally uploaded it and it won't let me. When I go to edit, it isn't there and has nothing to do with this post.

 

[jbbj]

I wish i did take a pic of it b4 i cleaned it well now I know not too now...beginner mistake.

 

[jbbj]

Is there any other way of knowing if its old or modern after cleaning it?

 

[TNGUNS]

jbbj, I would say it is safe to say that many of us have made such mistakes at the beginning. Still gets me when I ding or scratch a good coin or relic digging it. Time will teach you. Some great articles on here on how to clean buttons, coins etc. to help avoid damage. The old round balls are a wonderful part of history but of little value as they are so common and used for everything. At least it was not a Civil War Whitworth or similar that can be very valuable. Best of luck on your hunting. PS You can't always depend on the white oxidation being on lead. In the creeks and rivers they sometimes have very little and the color can vary from white to a dark amber or even brown. So don't depend on the patina to tell age on all projectiles.

 

[jbbj]

Yea I'm just excited I found something for the first time...going back out sat morning have 81 acres to search lol...and I'm not cleaning it till i take pics first.

 

[TNGUNS]

Just remember on the bullets no need to clean. Maybe just rinse off but leave the patina. No need not to search the whole property but taking the time to do a little research may get ya a honey hole. I frequently hunt the fields near a very old community near where I live and have come upon a few home sites, but that is feast or famine hunting. Early in the game a full day hunting with nothing to show for it can sure get you discouraged. That is why you do the research first. Springs and creeks are one of my favorite things as many of the earliest homes were built near them. In civil war areas camps may be there. Even grist mills. A tree line that is unusually wide may be hide a road bed back to such areas. Depending upon where you live a good chance of some old home sites on a piece of property that size. Best of luck.

 

[jbbj]

Thanks I tried doing research on the land and cant come up with very much on the land or old photos to show were everything was...theres a hand stack stone wall that I was kinda looking at.

 

[TNGUNS]

jbbj, what area of the country are you in. May be able to refer some maps for ya? Can get ya access to Sanborn (I think, haven't checked user and pass lately). They are of no help to me where I am hunting now but did find one that has helped a little at the Library of Congress online web site. Also the census maps and topos help. I also am lucky to be in a small rural town and the folks at eh property assessor's office are great to work with me. Big towns not so much. You can PM if ya want. I will the map info the map info for ya to keep you playground private. You have to be very cautious when you find a great place to hunt as many hunters will hit it in a heart beat it they get wind you have made good finds on it.

 

[BosnMate]

Back in the 70's the bi-centennial caused quite an increased interest in people shooting muzzleloaders, and in those days most of the guns were built to shoot round balls. A very slow twist stabilizes a round ball, and it takes a faster twist to stabilize elongated bullets like minie balls and their modern equivalents. Because a round ball has such lousy ballistics, some states granted an extra season just for muzzle loader hunters, so they weren't in competition with the hi-power guys, and had an opportunity to stalk the animal without a million more hunters in the woods. And that was the down fall of traditional muzzle loading. People then got into shooting muzzle loaders for the extra season and cared nothing about the history or traditions, so except for the die hard buckskinner traditionalists, now days, in my opinion, muzzleloader hunting and shooting has gone plumb to hell. The bolt action enclosed priming, inline muzzleloader leaves me cold. Back before my X wife got the property, I had a place with lots of deer, and in the 70's and 80's on that place it was round ball muzzleloader hunting -- period. On the far side of the hay field, if someone gets in there with a detector they will think there was a war fought. We shot targets, we had shooting matches, we hunted deer and squirrels. And a time or two we had cannon matches. The largest cannon match we had 27 guns lined up across the hay field shooting at a mock fort and an old car body. Ah yes, the good old days. The ground is full of round lead balls, there are trees full of lead. Needless to say, a good time was had by all.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Very few people who muzzle load hunt in todays world shoot round balls.

A small number hold on to the old methods . . . fiercely. I moderate on a traditional muzzleloading forum and we have over 34,000 members. Not all active - but the majority hunt with patched round balls. We don't allow discussion of inlines or modern bullets so those there are into the old technology. I hunt during regular and muzzleloading season with flintlocks (rifle and fowler/shotgun) since 1995.

Also shoot and hunt with recurves from the 50's and 60's and make my own wood arrows for bowhunting. Next whitetail will be #42, all taken in NY by fair chasse without fenced enclosures, bait, scents, ATVs and only five of those from treestands (bow).

Round balls made the Eastern Elk extinct and rid the USA of British influence.

In this part of NY we can't hunt with centerfire rifles, so a flintlock shooting a patched round ball doesn't give up much to a shotgun with a rifled slug.

I figure there's about 25,000 round balls out there that I put in NY soil since 1976. ;-) About 15,000 I've dug back out and recast.