✅ SOLVED Please help identify this coin or token.

[ShinyShores]

I dug this in a field next to where I found my Nova Constellatio so it could be old, but i cant find the coin in my book.

Coin has a shielded eagle with circles going around it. Only time i really see these circles like this is on the Benjamin Franklin contract issues. But cant find this pattern. Please help.
Cannot make out any marking on the other side

 

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[Goodyguy]

I apologize,
There is a mystery after all

 

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[Bramblefind]

Hi - just wanted to pass along a little something for you. The more I look at this eagle stamp the more I like it. My feeling is it is very early. Maybe late 18th C / early 19th- so applied to the coin early on. I haven't been able to find a match and it seems that Fugios are uncommon host coins for counterstamps. Most of the stamps I have seen on Fugios are letters or numbers - nothing as fun as this eagle!

I showed the counterstamp to the famed numismatist Dave Bowers and he said - "I have seen countless counterstamps, but this is a new one for me. Very well done!" So I just wanted you to know that - congratulations on this great find and excellent save! I will keep looking for the stamp and let you know if I find anything noteworthy.

 

[Goodyguy]

You may want to compare to another coin also minted in 1787 which had a shielded eagle on it.
Could be when the double strike occurred. Would make it very rare and very valuable.

1787 Brasher Gold doubloon

 

[ShinyShores]

Hi - just wanted to pass along a little something for you. The more I look at this eagle stamp the more I like it. My feeling is it is very early. Maybe late 18th C / early 19th- so applied to the coin early on. I haven't been able to find a match and it seems that Fugios are uncommon host coins for counterstamps. Most of the stamps I have seen on Fugios are letters or numbers - nothing as fun as this eagle!

I showed the counterstamp to the famed numismatist Dave Bowers and he said - "I have seen countless counterstamps, but this is a new one for me. Very well done!" So I just wanted you to know that - congratulations on this great find and excellent save! I will keep looking for the stamp and let you know if I find anything noteworthy.

Thank you so much!!! I cant believe i found this with an Excalibur 2 in dirt!

I was just about to make a post on who I should contact to help look up the counterstamp so thank you!

Im so curios! I can not find any eagle that looks like it so far either. Im wondering if someone was working on the next shield design and used this coin as a template to try? It seems to me that there was even an error that happened when the eagles tail had fallen off and stamped the reverse side as well, its the only way i can see how the tail got stamped in like that. Im no expert however. Speaking of that, how can i go about protecting this coin? I have it in a plastic holder now but i need to apply something to the copper to stop any more from chipping off.

Im excited to find out more information and the history it can come to bear. And hopefully value! 🙂

Please let me know all that you can find!

 

[ShinyShores]

You may want to compare to another coin also minted in 1787 which had a shielded eagle on it.
Could be when the double strike occurred. Would make it very rare and very valuable.

1787 Brasher Gold doubloon

The eagle has some similarities that look exactly the same. Eagle faces the wrong way but wings and tail seem very similar. Thank you though that is very true to look at dies from same year, or could even be a pre workup for another coin and they were practicing on this coin. The mystery continues

 

[Rehctelf]

Sorry to tell you, it's not a real Fugio. It is an electroype counterfeit of a Fugio, probably early 1900s Chinese-made, that also has an unusual eagle impression on the reverse ... almost like some sort of weird amalgamation of two Colonial knock-offs. Very unique and interesting, but not a real Fugio ... you can tell by the clay base and thin copper-plating.

 

[nkellam22]

Sorry to tell you, it's not a real Fugio. It is an electroype counterfeit of a Fugio, probably early 1900s Chinese-made, that also has an unusual eagle impression on the reverse ... almost like some sort of weird amalgamation of two Colonial knock-offs. Very unique and interesting, but not a real Fugio ... you can tell by the clay base and thin copper-plating.

No.

 

[Rehctelf]

No.

Well, considering that there are maybe 5 people alive on the planet who know more about Fugios than I, I am pretty sure that I am correct ;-)

 

[Bramblefind]

Well, considering that there are maybe 5 people alive on the planet who know more about Fugios than I, I am pretty sure that I am correct ;-)

Hi welcome to the forum! I know something about Fugios. And I may know one or more of the 5 people who know more than you.

What is your source for the Chinese counterfeit info?

 

[Rehctelf]

Hi welcome to the forum! I know something about Fugios. And I may know one or more of the 5 people who know more than you.

What is your source for the Chinese counterfeit info?

Your profile says you're from New York ... you're not Tony Terranova are you? He is definitely #1 and I've purchased serval excellent Fugios from him over the years ...

Well, it's obviously an electrotype based on what appears to be a clay base covered by a thin layer of metal that is peeling off from the top right quarter of the coin on the reverse. Original Fugios were cast from melted down powder barrel bands and are solid pieces, not layered. The bulk of electrotype counterfeits I've encountered over the years were of Chinese origin. In fact, I have a box of 50+ year old Chinese-made clay blanks of various colonials and early issue US coins that never received the plating. Yes, they could be from the US or another country, but I'd say the odds are that they are Chinese. Either way, from what I can see in the image, the Fugio is not genuine.

Can you identify what appears to be a shield imprinted of the center of the reverse?

 

[Bramblefind]

No I am not Tony but I do know him. This coin has been in the ground probably for 200 + years. I think that is what is giving it the layered look.

The Federal eagle with shield looks like a counterstamp to me. I searched and found other eagle or eagle with shield counterstamps but none to be a match to this one. It may have been done with a button die or some other metal working punch by an artisan. Difficult to say why certain counterstamps were placed on coins. Some have known meanings and some are mysteries.

I've shown this coin to a few well respected colonial numismatists already and no one I've shown it to has doubted the authenticity.

 

[Rehctelf]

Just to be clear, you showed David the second picture that he posted that clearly shows a clad metal covering a base and not the first picture in this thread? I mean, David would know ... but I find it hard to believe he would come to that conclusion based on the second picture. Still, I'm open to being wrong ;-)

 

[Rehctelf]

Here is a fake electrotype 1792 high value coin for example ... they almost always peel like that.

 

[Bramblefind]

Yes I showed that image to Dave. Do you have much experience with coins that have environmental damage? Colonial era coppers dug at early sites often come out looking like this. It is the copper reacting with the environment over time.

 

[ShinyShores]

Just to be clear, you showed David the second picture that he posted that clearly shows a clad metal covering a base and not the first picture in this thread? I mean, David would know ... but I find it hard to believe he would come to that conclusion based on the second picture. Still, I'm open to being wrong ;-)

View attachment 1825925

This coin is showing wear and flaking in the same exact way that the nova Constellatio i dug in the field next to where i found this one. I dont think it is a fake and looks just like some other fugios that were dug in soil. Of course owning the coin i am partial lol. I will post more photos today to get clearer pics in different lighting.

 

[ShinyShores]

Here is another coin found in rhode island looking the same. Coppers coming out of new england soil seem to corrode similarly. So would you consider this one a fake as well?

 

[ShinyShores]

Sorry to tell you, it's not a real Fugio. It is an electroype counterfeit of a Fugio, probably early 1900s Chinese-made, that also has an unusual eagle impression on the reverse ... almost like some sort of weird amalgamation of two Colonial knock-offs. Very unique and interesting, but not a real Fugio ... you can tell by the clay base and thin copper-plating.

 

[Rehctelf]

Here is another coin found in rhode island looking the same. Coppers coming out of new england soil seem to corrode similarly. So would you consider this one a fake as well?

No, that one looks genuine to me. The new pictures you posted make your fugio look less like an electrotype more like there were metal impurities in the original blank that corroded at different rates. However, the second super-bright picture you posted definitely looks like an electrotype. It needs to be seen in hand to make an accurate determination. Take it to a local coin shop. Whatever it is, the counter stamp is very interesting. I wasn’t trying to downplay your awesome find, just trying to help identify your unique coin.

And, yes, I went to college in Boston and did lots of digging while I was there, so I’ve seen plenty of cruddy copper ;-)

 

[ShinyShores]

No, that one looks genuine to me. The new pictures you posted make your fugio look less like an electrotype more like there were metal impurities in the original blank that corroded at different rates. However, the second super-bright picture you posted definitely looks like an electrotype. It needs to be seen in hand to make an accurate determination. Take it to a local coin shop. Whatever it is, the counter stamp is very interesting. I wasn’t trying to downplay your awesome find, just trying to help identify your unique coin.

And, yes, I went to college in Boston and did lots of digging while I was there, so I’ve seen plenty of cruddy copper ;-)

I definitely appreciate any input on trying to identify this coin and stamp. If its a fake i would definitely want to know so I thank you, no hard feelings at all.

I am thinking the stamp seems to resemble either a counterstamp or a wax seal perhaps with the lack of detail. Thanks for your input in trying to help me correctly identify my find!