PHOTOS! The past three days. I think the gods love me :)

[Airborne80]

WOW! how do I describe the past three days? First.... you may remember that I started this hobby in December. Since then, its been a fast paced, exciting mission of learning, hiking in the rain, sleet and yes... snow, finding many many "they look like arrowheads, but uuuhhhhh... not sure"s and many "I'm 90% sure that they MIGHT be arrowheads" and a few of the heart stopping, "Holy s--t!! This IS an arrowhead"!! Anyway........ here are some of the finds... starting with today's unbelievable one. It is a spear point that is (according to Overstreet) six to eight thousand years old! The second was found today as well and is a pure quarts arrowhead. The rest were found Thursday and Friday. The best news is...... tomorrow is Sunday!! Please let me know what you think of these. The very last pics are of a stone that I would LOVE to believe is an axe. I have never found an axe and have seen many on the net. I believe that the axes must have notches and wear... this has none. The ONLY reason that I am holding onto hope is because of its shape and sharpness and the location where I found it. It was found in an area that was COVERED with flakes and other signs of big time Indian use. Please take a close look and let me know if i should hang onto it, or toss it into the garden. Thanks and I hope that you are all doing well. Oh yea....... I still am reduced to using my cellphone camera so try and hold off on the "you need clearer photos" advice. I know I do but I do not have a good camera and it hurts my feelings when you yell at me haha.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Upgraded Night Vision Monocular Digital Infrared Monocular Telescope for 100% Darkness with 8X Zoom - Grab it through Amazon!

[Cannonman17]

The pure quartz one in the second pic looks pretty nice! Good find-

 

[dustintimmons_83]

i love the material

 

[Airborne80]

Thanks for the comments guys. Also..... regarding the first photo...... I am still amazed that its a lance point! But..... after reading the Overstreet section on lance points in my area.... i am convinced that it is in fact one of them. The book has a life size photo of one and even says that they were usually made out of poor material like shale, slate, etc. This one was found three feet away from the pure quartz one that is in the second photo. As for the possible axe.... I hope that you comment on that because after looking at it under magnification, i clearly see two things that are not natural. One is... flaking like marks on the area of the blade... as if it were sharpened a number of times. Also... I (know this is hard to believe) see what looks like the remnants of some kind of redish paint! Am I nuts or could this really be a tomahawk blade?

 

[Hugh Mongus]

I would be a bit suspicious of the red paint on one unless you wuz hanging over at the paleo power point atlytl place. Those are nice finds though. I have a little quartz bird point, about 3/8" to the side , that looks exactly the little one on the right in your multiple point picture. Hugh

 

[Cannonman17]

Can you get a clear picture of the first one? It doesn't look as though it has any flaking scars at all either... and for the axe... sorry, it's not one, it really doesn't show any signs of being worked, when you do find one there won't be any doubt at all, you'll be jumping up and down in the field rather than taking it back and looking under magnification for any hints of things that might not be natural. Sorry to be a bummer with all these, I remember how it was when I first started and my imagination was better than my factual knowledge. I hope you don't get down on the hobby bucause you have found some stuff and it is a ton of fun but I want to be honest with you so you don't end up walking into an artifact show somewhere with a box of your finds only then to find out they aren't anything.. better to learn right away. Try to be more critical of what you find.. suggesting that there is paint and/or blood on what you think is a hatchet tells me that you're not where you need to be yet. Keep looking and by all means please bring anything and everything you have question about here as we can help you alot- JUST REMEMBER, 99% of the time when you find any kind of artifact you are going to know, it will be obvious. If the first words or thoughts are "well, it's kind of shaped like one" that's not a good sign at all. I hope you start finding some of the 99% points (like that one quartz one up there, second pic, no doubt about that one) and I hope you don't end up like some and devoting 99% of your time to the 1% of the maybe rocks out there. Couple of other quick tips: Just because somebody told you or you "know" that this particular area was once active with native americans or they used to live around here or whatever... doesn't really mean much at all. The native americans were here for 10,000+ years..pretty much every square mile had natives in it at some point in history. They were really everywhere and pretty much any natural body of water, at some point, had some natives living or staying by it. Quick tip#2) Just because somebody finds a good field or creek that produces some nice artifacts DOES NOT mean that every rock in that field is an artifact, don't lose that ability to criticaly analyze the pieces for evidence... leave the imagination at home to start. Likewise, finding a rock with the just the right shape (but lacking all or any other evidence of ever having been altered) is still just a rock with just the right shape, no matter how CLOSE it was to another or real arrowhead/artifact. Okay, I'll stop- sorry about that, I get carried away so easily.

 

[Airborne80]

You can have the one real quartz arrowhead. After this message.... I am going to hang myself! haha.... just kidding. I will try to get a better pic of the first one BUT.... there is no visible flaking on it. That is what promted me to write about flaking in my other post. The lance point in the book that is made from shale has no flaking marks on it either. Remember.... this one was in a river when I found it and if it is a point.... and is made of shale..... perhaps thousands of years of currant smoothed it over. Using your tips (which I appreciate greatly and take heed of) my very fist thought when I saw that one was.." Holy S--t! That is man made!" As for the axe...... I spend a lot of time looking on the internet at stone tomahawks. This stone really does meet the requirements in many ways. Shape, size and clear chisel marks going in the direction of rear toward blade area. I think the jury is still out on this one. The site where I found it was pointed out to me by a friend who advises for the history channel on the subject of Native Americans in this area. Its a site that is kept secret from the public and has been the subject of prior archaeological study by the pros. There has been tones of rain and soil movement since then and this thing exposed itself. not to take issue with you at all, but I will have it looked at by someone who knows this subject. My images (as you have pointed out) are not the best and there is nothing like holding an object in your hands to get the real feel of the thing. yes... I do want it to be a tomahawk. But I would rather know for sure then (as you say) feel like a fool when it gets pointed out that its just a rock. I am a law enforcement guy and go about this stuff like a homicide investigation. I mean.... that's a big part of the fun to me. Studying an area, researching it, looking for clues (flaking) and then.... finding something. Certainally I lack experience in this field but I do try to use more than just the sshape of an item as justification for lugging it home. OK..I admit that the paint idea was a bit much hahaha.... but that was the kid in me poking his head out for a second

Now.... I just got back from another location and yes...... wouldn't you know it.... I found another axe looking stone. After reading about stone axes today, I think that this MIGHT have a chance of being one. here is why........ its shaped like one (no surprise), it's still fairly sharp, it shows wear on the blade side and has evidence of shaping on both sides. I could probably cut down a small tree with it as it is. I will snap a photo of it with my snazzy cell phone camera when I am done with this post and get it up here on this thread. I am fully prepared for you to tell me that its a geofact. Yes... it will hurt.... but I am ready for it Thanks again for the comments.

 

[Airborne80]

Ok.... here are some more HIGH QUALITY pics of my rocks. The first are some close ups of what I think may be a Tomahawk. I am trying to show the marks that look and feel like chisel or flake marks. They run toward the edge. The next photos are of what I think may be an axe. All comments appreciated.

 

[Cannonman17]

You're law enforcement too? you can't be all bad then! There are smooth shale or slate type artifacts that show no flaking... in fact some were never flaked, just ground out from a slab broken loose... some were flaked and then ground down still showing on some pieces flaking scars but only on the low points.. so these things do exist... I won't argue, but they are EXCEEDINGLY rare. They are most frequently found with Eskimo type artifacts. Now take a second and listen to yourself here and remember what I said about 99% of artifacts vs. spending 99% of your time on the 1% "if it is a point.... and is made of shale..... perhaps thousands of years of currant smoothed it over" that's all I have to say about that.
If you have a good college with anthropology department nearby they should be able to tell you.. I used to be "that guy" for UWSP. As for the axe... I'll be 100% honest with you, it's not an axe, nor does it have a chance to be, if somebody tells you that it is they will probably also tell you that all the other geofacts found to date are also artifacts and if they do that it's probably not somebody to take advice from.. or I could be wrong and I'm not the one to take advice from! Now you say you have another one.. well, we'll have to take a look at it. Some hunt their whole lives without finding one and others find many..so we just gotta look at each one you find. One other thing for you to remember though is how rare axe heads are... and that no axe has "chisel" marks, only tiny dimple marks from the impact of another stone... there wasn't an intermediate tool between the axe to be and the hammer stone, no chisel.. some axes and other ground stone tools don't show any dimple marks either because they have been extensively polished... although artifacts of this caliber are quite rare... most commonly found with banded slate bannerstones. If you get a chance go to an artifact show and spend some time checking things out- it can be a great help for newcomers to the hobby to get familiar with the various types of artifacts. Alright, I'll stop, sorry again for being long winded. All I can say is you are finding some artifacts so you must be in some decent spots, keep looking, keep reading, and keep posting! HH

 

[Airborne80]

Ok...... now.... about the twenty dollar bill in the upper photos....... real or counterfeit? I will take your advice and keep learning and keep hunting. The axe and tomahawk probably will turn out to be rocks.... I will give you that one. BUT the first photo of the shale lance point....... no way. I would bet two fingers that its what I think it is. Holding it, feeling it seeing the photos in the Overstreet Guide, the location, and odds of a strange light shale stone that just happens to look and feel like a man made point and that is the right size just happening to wash up in a spot that keeps yielding real points? Nawwwwww. Commoncannonman! Even the poor quality photo should convince you that if its not a cracker cut to the shape of a point..... its probably real. I mean........... are those possibly natural curves? So even and all?

 

[Cannonman17]

Yes, it looks 100% natural to me. I have only had the good fortune to personally study a small number of ground stone points that had legit histories and were known to be real.. all were pretty well formed...yours has wobbly edges and no definite shape, just a general shape.. Of course if you feel that strongly about it I would still say take it to a known authority- you certainly don't have to take my word for it. Like I said, a University with a good anthro department can be a great help.. although some folks have had bad experiences with them from what I'm told, if you're worried about them find a local collecting club or even local collector who is well known-

 

[Airborne80]

Roger that. Hey... I am curious about the bad experiences. Any examples? Did they confiscate the artifact or what?

 

[Cannonman17]

Roger that. Hey... I am curious about the bad experiences. Any examples? Did they confiscate the artifact or what?

I've heard all kinds of things.. most of them I don't believe for two reasons: 1) it alwasy happened to somebody else.. I hear very few first hand stories. 2) I worked in a regional archaeology center for a few years on a campus and seen tons of people bring stuff in.. we never took a darn thing.. never even thought of it.. we actually had a good working relationship with collectors.. they helped us find some sites and we helped teach them what they had.. in terms of use and age. Many of them even came and helped us on our field schools so the idea that these places are some kind of secret police force waiting to confiscate all your finds and your house makes no sense to me... All I can say is I guess it's not the same everywhere- maybe I'm just lucky.
The one horror story I know of happened to a guy who dug artifacts... all of them and anywhere he could. He dug graves and undisturbed village sites with reckless abandoned. I heard he had quite the collection and then hired somebody to fix something in his house... where he had most of it displayed... including a baby burial with bones in a basket or jar or some such thing... and the guy who came to fix his house or whatever was native.. He complained and the guy got investigated ( I don't know by who) so he got some big fine, collection taken, and even prison time I think ( I heard this story second hand a couple of years ago) but in my opinion scum bags who do stuff like that deserve it, that wasn't artifact collecting, that was grave robbing and he got what he had coming.

 

[Cannonman17]

"As they said in Jump School.... NEVER EVER give up!!!! Now... I still have not had it analyzed, so it MAY be a saltine cracker. But.... even you said that shale points do not always show flaking.....right? So just for the record..... what do you really think this thing is? I mean..... really. A light stone that is shaped like a point? I not offended or upset.... at all.... I seriously want your opinion as to what this thing is.... if its not a point. I mean look..... in December, I thought flakes were people who did not work. So, I really do need to learn as much as I can."

(taken from the other thread)

Right, shale points do not always show flaking. But they do show obvious signs of being worked and will show light striations all in one direction over various portions- but most all of them being in the same direction. This is so hard to explain over a screen... *sigh* Picture yourself making a ground stone point... you would rub it against perhaps a piece of sandstone... in the process you're going to change positions and slightly different angles as you work it down but for the most part they (the scratches) will all be going the same direction. Now then... these tiny scratches are most often easily seen with the naked eye.. do you see tiny scratches on this piece? I don't from the picture but that doesn't mean I wouldn't first hand... Sometimes ground points don't show many of these (usually they do) because they have been polished.. but I haven't personally seen any that have been polished to the point that they didn't show any of these striations any longer. That coupled with the shape. The overall shape from what I can see in the pic just doesn't look like a point... at all.. I don't know how I can better explain it. It looks like a water worn rock to me.. the edges don't have straight lines like ground stone points do.. there's no stem on it.. most of the ones I have seen, if not all, have had some type of basal form.. this one doens't... all things just point to it being a water worn rock.

 

[Airborne80]

Cannonman.... thank you for the long posts....... I know that sucks to try and explain things in this fashion. I do truly appreciate the time and effort that you put into it and take it all as part of my journey to learn. The information about the guy who dug all of his artifacts..... wow! If true, prison was what he deserved, if not worse. That is simply a big time lack of ethics and respect on his part.

Now (not to argue... just for discussion) regarding the questionable point. What confuses me is your thoughts that the shape is not correct. When I lay it on the lifesize photo in the Overstreet book.... its a perfect match. Not to beat a dead horse but can you see why I am confused about that? As for the scratch marks and such.... I will have to look at it again when I get home form work. Either way..... Thanks again for the thoughts. If it turns out to be the find of the century....... you will owe me a burrito supreme

 

[pickaway]

Nice finds congrats

 

[Airborne80]

Thanks for that. As you can see.... I am building up a small artifact collection along with a HUGE rock collection haha.

 

[Billco]

Airborne, you're having fun. Getting educated is great, but if it wasn't fun I doubt very many would check in here.

I didn't start really looking for stuff until last October. I regret leaving stuff that I now know to be "something" a lot more than a worry about having brought home too many rocks. I've went back to look for some of it and can't find it a lot of it. I think the more stuff you pick up, the faster you learn. In the beginning, I filled my frames with whatever "Indian rocks" looked good. Little by little, as I learned more and found more stuff, I replaced the debitage with finished artifacts. Heck, I might still have a little debitage setting next to some pretty points. I've got some broken arrowheads in the frames that I like better than some of my whole ones. Everybody should take from this hobby what they enjoy. The more you enjoy it, the more you'll get out of it. That's my philosophy anyway.

I really wish you'd get a camera though. I'd be willing to contribute a dollar. Do you have a Paypal account?

One side benefit of a good camera is that you can open a free Flickr account and store your pictures there. I just registered. Its a lot easier to do it as you find them, instead of like I'm backing up like having to do.

I've got more to upload , but here's what I have so far at Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24006049@N05/

 

[Airborne80]

You make great points (pardon the pun)! The fun that I am having is not easy to describe. I mean.... I am from Los Angeles California and only moved to Virginia two years ago. To be able to walk outside of my own home and within minutes, be finding arrowheads that are so old....it's beyond my ability to describe. I started this in December and am mad at myself for having missed over a year of hunting. I am obsessed! When I am at work..... its all that I think about. On my days off.... I get up at 6:00am, grab my walking stick (used to pull objects out of the water) get Charlie (my dog) and head into the woods. two days ago a Bald Eagle swooped out of a tree that I was standing under and flew away with a wingspan the width of a 747! A few minutes later, I was face to face with a deer the size of a woolly mammoth To people who do not live in the city, these things may not seem like much but to me........ its like I died and went to heaven.

So yes....... i do carry a lot of things home with me. The worst that can happen is that I end up with a cool rock for the garden. I agree with you strongly and am in it for the fun and the feeling of reaching into the past and touching an item that was high tech to the peerson who created it.

I love the website that you shared and will open an account. Thanks for the offer regarding the camera hahaha. I will get one. I promise!