Permission without them thinking its theirs

[montypyfly]

Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I have only been doing this for about five months, but every time I ask permission from homeowners in this old neighborhood, I get a lot of "Sure"s, but they all seem to think everything I dig up is theirs.

I tried mentioning to a few before I started that what I find will be mine, and then the deny my detecting.

Then I tried a few saying I would split anything of value over $100 (Knowing that was pretty safe bet :-) )

One out of three agreed to that, but then he said he wanted the ring I found.

How do you get these people to let you detect, but not expect you to hand over what you find?

 

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[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Many opinions---Just a question----are we obligated to turn over that which we find on public property to the authorities that have control over that property. Public meaning that it belongs to everyone-----not to start any debate , just asking. lol lol

if you want to turn it in to the authorities go for it, good luck ever seeing it again

exactly my thought!..lol

 

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[Dave44]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Interesting thread. I love detecting. And often I find absolutely nothing but trash. I am also a buisiness guy. I had one woman who asked me to find 2 rings her husband had lost, she knows me very well (friend of the family), I have done work for her also.
She said if I find them both I can keep one, so I started detecting, found them both, handed them over and then she asked me if I could find her property stob, which I did and then a wheatie, which she also held out her hand for. At that point I realized that I had not signed an agreement with her and I knew she had changed her mind and I wasn't keeping anything, she thanked me profusely and said her stepson was really going to be happy when she gave them them to him.
I didn't raise a stink, just said goodbye. Now as I mentioned I am a buisiness guy, so if someone wants everything I have they can pay me for labor and equipment rental which will be in a contract for anyone who wants any thing more than 30%.
If you guys just like diggin thats fine, to me that is free labor, you guys should advertise, you would have more detecting than you could handle. I would like something to show for my labours. Does that make me greedy? It indicates that I don't believe anything is free. Sure they paid tax on the land and purchased it,, They could also buy there own equipment, or pay me to find it.
I am lucky I have many places to hunt though, so often i will not hunt those properties anyway.

 

[Frankn]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Word of honor
It's beginning to look like only the old guys remember what that means. I guess greed and the me,me attitude is starting to prevail in our society. Being 73 I still live by my word. Some time it cost me and some time it pays me back, but it stays in place come hell or high water!
when I make a deal with a home owner, and that's just what it is a deal or business arrangement, I live by it and so will they! I usually go for a 50/50/ split to cover their property/ my hard work. Now how do you work a 50/50 split? I set up the arrangement before hand. Method 1 is an alternate pick of the items found. In method 2 I divide everything equally in two bags and let the land owner pick which bag he wants, without looking inside. This way he knows you split equally. I also throw in a stipulation that if a extremely valuable item is found like a diamond ring, It will be taken to a jeweler to be sole and the money split 50/50. The thing is make the deal BEFORE you do the work!

 

[Dave44]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I absolutely agree with you Frankn. The discussion should come first,, because it goes badly after the fact. I say write it because frankn and I remember how the split goes(he is more generous than I), alot of people are trying to get something for nothing nowadays. Not to say I havent given my labor or findings,, But that should be my choice after the contractual agreement.
Last year a friend let me detect his property and I gave him half of the findings, I got some sharps bullets and he got some. I got a couple of flat buttons and he got the confederate script C button. (I am a sucker for people I know)

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

What amazes me is all the people here who act holier than thou. Cracks me up. Detecting is not a cheap hobby, detecting takes a lot of time, research, gas to get places, etc. I did not get into the hobby merely to dig treasure only to give it away to someone. I got into this because I love history, I love finding old things that connect me to the past. Most private yards have treasures buried that the current owner did NOT loose or they had absolutely no idea it was even there if one of us had not stopped by and asked permission to detect. If we didn't find it, the items would be lost forever.

The area I live in must be a lot different than some of the areas others live because the owners I have dealt with never tries to take my finds, they see me hunting, bending digging for several hours and most of them say things like you earned what you found, or you worked hard for that silver coin...etc....

Sometimes a single barber dime or one lone Indian penny is all I find and that makes my day, makes for a good hunt. Now if that one coin was taken from me by the homeowner, how would I feel? I am glad the land owners in my area are not greedy and realize my hobby is not a money making endeavor by any means and I earn each and every find I make.

If a landowner wants all the treasure on their land, they need to spend the money on their own detector, spend many hours learning how to use it, and dig away.

But as for now, what I find I keep. Unless like I mentioned in a post above, if a homeowner tells me upfront they lost something, I will search for it and try to return it. If they didn't loose anything then whatever is found came from a previous owner and they had no idea it was even there.

I think a lot of people here like to preach how great and holy they are but, if they found something good they would simply put it in their pocket and shut their mouth. I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this but those are the same ones who I am referring too. And a lot of people will agree with me on this, some will admit it, some won't admit it.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

What amazes me is all the people here who act holier than thou. Cracks me up. Detecting is not a cheap hobby, detecting takes a lot of time, research, gas to get places, etc. I did not get into the hobby merely to dig treasure only to give it away to someone. I got into this because I love history, I love finding old things that connect me to the past. Most private yards have treasures buried that the current owner did NOT loose or they had absolutely no idea it was even there if one of us had not stopped by and asked permission to detect. If we didn't find it, the items would be lost forever.

The area I live in must be a lot different than some of the areas others live because the owners I have dealt with never tries to take my finds, they see me hunting, bending digging for several hours and most of them say things like you earned what you found, or you worked hard for that silver coin...etc....

Sometimes a single barber dime or one lone Indian penny is all I find and that makes my day, makes for a good hunt. Now if that one coin was taken from me by the homeowner, how would I feel? I am glad the land owners in my area are not greedy and realize my hobby is not a money making endeavor by any means and I earn each and every find I make.

If a landowner wants all the treasure on their land, they need to spend the money on their own detector, spend many hours learning how to use it, and dig away.

But as for now, what I find I keep. Unless like I mentioned in a post above, if a homeowner tells me upfront they lost something, I will search for it and try to return it. If they didn't loose anything then whatever is found came from a previous owner and they had no idea it was even there.

I think a lot of people here like to preach how great and holy they are but, if they found something good they would simply put it in their pocket and shut their mouth. I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this but those are the same ones who I am referring too. And a lot of people will agree with me on this, some will admit it, some won't admit it.

 

[Nooberz]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

Oh come on man. Split the red book value. You said you agree to splitting 50/50, right? You are not greedy are you? Crack open the wallet and throw the guy a crisp Lincoln for that killer seated quarter worth maybe ten bucks. You'll feel okay with that, right? You both will. After all, an agreement was made, and must be held, especially if greed is ruled out, agreed? Plus, who cares about a seated quarter? It ain't gonna pay the mortgage. It probably wont buy lunch. You can take it home and put it in your collection with a clean conscious. You are not greedy. You are a man of your word. Now, when you pull that fruit jar full of pre-civil war gold coins, you can really start thinking about being greedy. If you want to sneak it out, don't let the landowner see you because now you would be a thief. Unless you are not greedy and split as agreed. Greed is always in the minds of the dishonest detectorist, NEVER the innocent landowner. A silly silver quarter could never eclipse a man's integrity, could it?

I like what Goes4Ever said in a post a couple up. If a landowner expects to get half or all of MY finds, I will leave the property and say no thank you. I didn't invest my money, which is quite a bit of money if you factor in gas, detector, accessories....etc, for a landowner to say gimmie gimmie. Its about your presentation of who you are and what you plan on doing on their property. If they don't agree I will go to a different location. If I feel the need to keep my integrity to a complete stranger, I'll go volunteer at the salvation army....but i'd rather detect and keep my findings.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

They own the land, they feel it's theirs. If you think about it, it is.

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

They own the land, they feel it's theirs. If you think about it, it is.

absolutely and I agree 100% and if they want to buy a detector and search for it, more power to them!

 

[Blacksheep]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

"An agreement was quickly struck between Norman Sortor, the Hawley's and Mackey. Soon the attempt to locate and excavate the Arabia began."

The above is in reference to the steamboat "Arabia", found in a cornfield. If these people can come to terms with such a huge undertaking,
why then is it so difficult for smaller operations to do the same?

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Arabia_Steamboat

http://www.1856.com/

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I just secured permission to detect a very interesting old house, 1840's limestone, big house, big yard, it's gonna be interesting. I'll bring three machines and let the owner's fiddle around a bit if they want to, but they will get bored and just go away eventually. I met them at the bar. Now I'm tectin their huge old lawn with 150 year's worth of coin droppings.

No splitting of vast wealth or any wealth was brought up by them, they just want to see what tectin is all about. I mentioned a 70/30 split in their favor, but really they don't care, they know I'm not GREEDY. I'll throw 'em a merc or two, maybe and indian cent, maybe a crusty large cent, and maybe a worn barber or even a seated dud. Heck, that smoooooth bust coin just aint gonna happen and if it does, it wont buy me and the wifey a decent night out on the town. I have more satisfaction that the land owners have it, it's part of the history of the house, which is cool. If the elusive fruit jar full o' gold and silver pops up, worth let's say 50 grand, I'm up 15 grand. It's a win/win! HOORAY for all! Anyway, we are all going to have fun, not some torrid argument fussing over chump change.

Soon I will be digging their killer privy(s), you know, the crapper, where the big ticket items are. Now we're talking serious cabbage with excellent chance of finding more value in one day than metal detecting for ten years. All of this is simply a low stress gig to kill time on the weekends if I can't come up with something better to do. Montpyfly, any comments from you, the OP? Just curious what you gots to say bout all this nonsense.

 

[dogpound]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

What amazes me is all the people here who act holier than thou. Cracks me up. Detecting is not a cheap hobby, detecting takes a lot of time, research, gas to get places, etc. I did not get into the hobby merely to dig treasure only to give it away to someone. I got into this because I love history, I love finding old things that connect me to the past. Most private yards have treasures buried that the current owner did NOT loose or they had absolutely no idea it was even there if one of us had not stopped by and asked permission to detect. If we didn't find it, the items would be lost forever.

The area I live in must be a lot different than some of the areas others live because the owners I have dealt with never tries to take my finds, they see me hunting, bending digging for several hours and most of them say things like you earned what you found, or you worked hard for that silver coin...etc....

Sometimes a single barber dime or one lone Indian penny is all I find and that makes my day, makes for a good hunt. Now if that one coin was taken from me by the homeowner, how would I feel? I am glad the land owners in my area are not greedy and realize my hobby is not a money making endeavor by any means and I earn each and every find I make.

If a landowner wants all the treasure on their land, they need to spend the money on their own detector, spend many hours learning how to use it, and dig away.

But as for now, what I find I keep. Unless like I mentioned in a post above, if a homeowner tells me upfront they lost something, I will search for it and try to return it. If they didn't loose anything then whatever is found came from a previous owner and they had no idea it was even there.

I think a lot of people here like to preach how great and holy they are but, if they found something good they would simply put it in their pocket and shut their mouth. I am sure a lot of people will disagree with me on this but those are the same ones who I am referring too. And a lot of people will agree with me on this, some will admit it, some won't admit it.

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

The question from montpyfly is crystal clear. Everyone knows the answer which is "you cannot possibly get permission to metal detect somebody's property without them (the property owners) thinking that it (the treasure) is theirs (the landowners). Respectfully speaking, that's the only reply to an outrageously silly question. Any other analysis is mental masturbation.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

You're probably making the mistake of suggesting there will be something worth finding! What you have to do is build a display of the most normal junk new finds and go total geek on them when you're showing the type of things you find, and how great it is. Hell go on and on and on and make them be happy to send you on your way to dig more. It's a no brainer if you tell someone you are looking for silver and gold they're going to want some because they figure you probably expect to find it.... why would you be there if it's not.

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

You're probably making the mistake of suggesting there will be something worth finding! What you have to do is build a display of the most normal junk new finds and go total geek on them when your showing the type of things you find, and how great it is. Hell go on and on and on and make them be happy to send you on your way to dig more. It's a no brainer if you tell someone you are looking for silver and gold they're going to want some because they figure you probably expect to find it.... why would you be there if it's not.

great point made!

 

[dogpound]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

you can normally read people and know if they will want any finds... if after granting permission they just go inside and pay ya no mind then they could care less, if they follow you around lookin over your shoulder eyeballing every dig then expect some cherry picking. i hunt to relax and find a few old coins so if i have a homeowner shadowing my every move i packup and leave. it has nothing to do with "honor" or "keeping my word" or even greed, i can't relax and enjoy what i'm doing with the homeowner riding my shirt tail.

 

[Goes4ever]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

you can normally read people and know if they will want any finds... if after granting permission they just go inside and pay ya no mind then they could care less, if they follow you around lookin over your shoulder eyeballing every dig then expect some cherry picking. i hunt to relax and find a few old coins so if i have a homeowner shadowing my every move i packup and leave. it has nothing to do with "honor" or "keeping my word" or even greed, i can't relax and enjoy what i'm doing with the homeowner riding my shirt tail.

I agree, I can't stand for people to look over my shoulder when I am detecting, main reason is they try to talk to you and I can't concentrate or listen to signals when they keep asking me questions

 

[gleaner1]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

You're probably making the mistake of suggesting there will be something worth finding! What you have to do is build a display of the most normal junk new finds and go total geek on them when you're showing the type of things you find, and how great it is. Hell go on and on and on and make them be happy to send you on your way to dig more. It's a no brainer if you tell someone you are looking for silver and gold they're going to want some because they figure you probably expect to find it.... why would you be there if it's not.

Good advice which I will use, never thought of that before. But, read the first original post. The OP clearly stated that he is getting a lot of "SURE!!" responses when asking for permission. He is not making any mistakes getting permission. What the OP really is asking is "how can I get permission and keep all the crap?" NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Greed FORCES the devil to play his hand in these situations.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

You're probably making the mistake of suggesting there will be something worth finding! What you have to do is build a display of the most normal junk new finds and go total geek on them when you're showing the type of things you find, and how great it is. Hell go on and on and on and make them be happy to send you on your way to dig more. It's a no brainer if you tell someone you are looking for silver and gold they're going to want some because they figure you probably expect to find it.... why would you be there if it's not.

Good advice which I will use, never thought of that before. But, read the first original post. The OP clearly stated that he is getting a lot of "SURE!!" responses when asking for permission. He is not making any mistakes getting permission. What the OP really is asking is "how can I get permission and keep all the crap?" NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Greed FORCES the devil to play his hand in these situations.

But it's not like they say sure and nothing else is said. Before the "sure" happens you have to explain yourself, and usually answer a few questions. In 11 years and having talked to probably 150 land owners we have never been asked to split. I'd say maybe a dozen times they asked to see what we found but that was it. It wouldn't be a big deal for me anyway because I'm lucky to find one target I like per site and the rest I would have no problem giving away.

 

[maipenrai]

Re: Permission without them thinking it's theirs

I have never hunted on someones private propety, at least property that I would need permission first. But I would think that if you went to someones house and told them your looking for old coins, or jewelry, they would say no. If you were the owner and someone detected all day on your property and then brought you a few pull tabs and some rusty objects, what would you think? Probably that someone pocketed all the good stuff and just shows the junk. So your putting yourself in a difficult situation if you show up with contracts, and then tell him you didnt find anything.

Another thing is, how do you know the person you ask permission from is the owner? If someone comes to my house and shows me a contract, then wants to know who the legal owner is, I would tell him to get his a.. and his funny looking machine off my property! Its my business who owns the property. Most likely, if you show a contract, then they suspect you know much more than you are letting on.

So are you going to dig all day, and split your finds with the renter that just moved in last week? You dont know who is the real owner, and it might even be the finance company, so then who do you split with?

I really wouldnt bother with these kinds of situations, in the sand box and on the beach, I keep everything. I dont even jump up and down when I find something, it just goes straight in my bag. I would hate to have an arguement on the beach with someone claiming the quarter was theirs.