Permission vs no problem anyway

[danloop]

All the permission threads reminded me of the time I asked police officer if it was ok to detect in the city park. Being out of state, I figured it was better to ask. City worker overheard the conversation and offered to show me a few spots to go. Found a few coins and had a good time BS'ing.

 

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[Sluice Willis]

Its really all about location I gather...

because in my areas.

The Football and Soccer players DO tear up the fields with their cleats, and not just little cleat holes, but major areas that the turf wont grow back

and most parks have 1000s of holes from rodents (squirrels/hogs/deer) ..

The abandoned house here and empty lots are pretty much turning into Homeless camps....So I never have an issue hunting those areas


So really, If you look at it that I Hunt Old Homes without permission (90% of them city & owned ready for teardown), and ball fields and city parks..

Me detecting isn't the worst thing that could be happening. Which I know is a blind statement....But the people that matter (The Police) agree with me there too. I have had cops come up to me at houses several times, and all they do is tell me to "Becareful" where im at.

The great thing about the cops in my area, and the fact ive hunted the same general area. Is that they always wave to me, So I really feel if they thought i was doing somethign I shouldnt be , they would at least stop to tell me so

Funny thing is how many football and soccer players dig holes and leave them behind? How many people wear cleats to play a little game of ball in the park? Perhaps the filed they are tearing up with those tiny little cleats were soccer and football fields. A little mud is different than a hole when it comes to an athletic field, easy to break an ankle you know. Careless detectorists who do not fill in their holes are the problem not he occasional person who asked permission. Apply that theory to any other activity and maybe you will start to see how silly and ridiculous it sounds to the rest of us. I see four people holding on to that ridiculous notion and the rest of the forum, well her ya go. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/metal-detecting/450051-angry-sloppy-mders-2.html

 

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[kayakpat]

I know. fact is property rights of the owner or authority in charge, and their right to restrict the property in any way they want . for any actions they want , at any time, even allow onething while banning another. Disrespect of property rights is the fastest way to get things banned or a fine or even worse. People use to be more lienient with t properties, but people are more protective of their right of authority to property these days mainly because of disrespect and damages by people who think they can do whatever things they want with property they don't own. Lack of respect will destroy our access to places in the end, abuse others rights always does.

 

[Sluice Willis]

In this case we have went from asking permission to fighting for it. The way to make a change isn't by sneaking around and keeping low key. It's by making a stand and educating the public.

Metal Detecting Enthusiasts Fight for the Right to Scan Central Park - Manhattan - DNAinfo.com New York
CENTRAL PARK — A determined group of metal-detecting enthusiasts are calling on the city to lift a decade-old ban that prevents them from treasure hunting here in the city's "crown jewel" of parks.

The Parks Department argues that metal detecting cannot be permitted in certain parks because "manicured lawns and natural areas are particularly sensitive to damage from digging." "We don't allow any type of invasive technique in Central Park," said Neil Calvanese, vice president of operations at the Central Park Conservancy. "We have delicate and extensive underground irrigation and drainage systems that we must maintain."

The clash over Central Park stems from a dispute that began in May 2008 when all metal detectorists were suddenly banned from Prospect Park, in Brooklyn, after park keepers allegedly observed one man leaving craters in the ground. Detectorists across New York City spoke out, saying they shouldn't be punished for the actions of one "rogue detector." They fought the city with a letter-writing campaign and, eventually, the city allowed them back into Prospect Park, but only for two days a week.

But Lowenfels said many felt shortchanged by the settlement. They continued to call and write city officials and have even sent a letter to the mayor's office, he said. The last time he heard from the city was six weeks ago. "It's come to the point where they aren't communicating with us anymore," Lowenfels said. "We have no other choice but to bring this battle out to the public and that's what we're doing here today."

 

[lookindown]

"They are probably going to be thinking about the negative things you mentioned and will probably tell you no."

That's nothing but speculation, rumor and bad judgment. Please provided such an example, the OP didn't get run off, he got the go ahead. Search the forum, you will find dozens of posts where people have asked permission and got the green light, many of those locations were off limits. It doesn't matter if somebody asks permission, if they don't want people detecting they will make it off limits regardless. So you don't ask and just do it, then somebody sees you and calls the police or the city. The same result will occur, it's not because too many people asked permission, it's because they don't want people digging holes.

I have read your posts, you don't think anybody should ask permission. As long as there isn't a sign restricting it then it's fair game to you. You might fool some people here but I see right through your nonsense, you just argue for the sake of it. It's all about getting attention, you might find your ridiculous posts entertaining but most of us do not. Personally I think you're very immature and only post here to incite drama. If you were really worried about the hobby you would be focused on teaching people the correct way to cut a plug, not arguing over asking permission. There is story after story about people leaving holes behind, this is the reason places are off limits. So the op asked permission, get over it, he didn't hurt anything. I have yet to see one example where asking permission led to a site becoming off limits. You history of posts speak for themselves, typical forum troll.

Your calling him immature...I think you better read your own post...he is giving his opinion and you are name calling...you don't have a clue what were talking about.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

End the insults and arguments.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

FYI.....Insults gets the post deleted...Next come timeouts..

 

[Escape]

Who's been paying a fine and what were the circumstances ? Unless you were just kidding.

I was told that last summer at two different beaches by guys detecting. Said park enforcement was issuing fines for three hundred for no permit. Don't know if its true. I will check with parks deapartment to see what the fines are.

 

[Escape]

No insults, calling a member a troll is an insult......

Those cute purple things with big eyes and a smile. Hardly an insult unless you look like one.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

sluice, I've been reading your posts, and they are well written. Glad you are chiming in. Thanx. To address a few things you're saying here:

The reason places become off limits is because careless people feel entitled to detect anywhere they wish......

This notion has always struck me as odd. Because: For a place to "BECOME" off-limits, implies what ? It implies that it WASN'T off-limits PRIOR to that. And if that is the case, then what's presumputous about md'ing ? Hence the statement sort of explodes in on itself, as self-contradicting.

.....they get mad when some idiot starts digging up their grass.....

And what's the implication of that ? And is seen in the rest of your post too: HOLES (mess, craters, etc...). If someone is doing THAT, then sure , they will catch flack from gardeners, cops, and fellow md'rs. But it seems to me that if you leave no trace of your presence, then presto, what's the problem ?

Yes I agree that detecting has "connotations" (that you might be about to dig, and won't be neat, etc....). Thus yes, a passerby might gripe, even though you NEVER EVEN STOOPED down to dig. The solution is simple: go at lower traffic times and avoid such gripers. I know you think the better way is to go get a city person's blessings beforehand, right ? But what do you do? Go in and say "Hi, can I dig holes in the park please?" Seems to me that's the FASTEST way to get a "no", when in fact, perhaps you'd never even have been bothered or hassled, unless you were a nuisance sticking out like a sore thumb.

In other words: to the extent what you're saying is true, the solution is not that the rest of us need to go around grovelling to city halls everywhere we come to. The SOLUTION is for that one md'r to a) take a repeat in the "target recovery 101 class", and b) take a lesson in a little .... uh .... discreetness so as not to stick out like a sore thumb, in the first place.

.... Nobody gets mad because somebody asked permission.....

Get mad ? You're right, I wouldn't call it "mad". But what has frequently happened (and I can give you many examples), is someone waltzing into city or county offices, asking around, and getting a "no". And oddly, this has often occurred in places where detecting has never been an issue before. Hmmm. And pretty soon you have old-timers scratching their heads saying "since when?". See how that works ?

 

[lookindown]

sluice, I've been reading your posts, and they are well written. Glad you are chiming in. Thanx. To address a few things you're saying here:



This notion has always struck me as odd. Because: For a place to "BECOME" off-limits, implies what ? It implies that it WASN'T off-limits PRIOR to that. And if that is the case, then what's presumputous about md'ing ? Hence the statement sort of explodes in on itself, as self-contradicting.




And what's the implication of that ? And is seen in the rest of your post too: HOLES (mess, craters, etc...). If someone is doing THAT, then sure , they will catch flack from gardeners, cops, and fellow md'rs. But it seems to me that if you leave no trace of your presence, then presto, what's the problem ?

Yes I agree that detecting has "connotations" (that you might be about to dig, and won't be neat, etc....). Thus yes, a passerby might gripe, even though you NEVER EVEN STOOPED down to dig. The solution is simple: go at lower traffic times and avoid such gripers. I know you think the better way is to go get a city person's blessings beforehand, right ? But what do you do? Go in and say "Hi, can I dig holes in the park please?" Seems to me that's the FASTEST way to get a "no", when in fact, perhaps you'd never even have been bothered or hassled, unless you were a nuisance sticking out like a sore thumb.

In other words: to the extent what you're saying is true, the solution is not that the rest of us need to go around grovelling to city halls everywhere we come to. The SOLUTION is for that one md'r to a) take a repeat in the "target recovery 101 class", and b) take a lesson in a little .... uh .... discreetness so as not to stick out like a sore thumb, in the first place.



Get mad ? You're right, I wouldn't call it "mad". But what has frequently happened (and I can give you many examples), is someone waltzing into city or county offices, asking around, and getting a "no". And oddly, this has often occurred in places where detecting has never been an issue before. Hmmm. And pretty soon you have old-timers scratching their heads saying "since when?". See how that works ?

Exactly, when you force an official to give you an answer to something that's never been asked...the likely answer will be "NO"...there is no reason to have them look into something that has never been in question or an issue.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Those cute purple things with big eyes and a smile. Hardly an insult unless you look like one.

It is an insult under our rules....

 

[Sluice Willis]

sluice, I've been reading your posts, and they are well written. Glad you are chiming in. Thanx. To address a few things you're saying here:

This notion has always struck me as odd. Because: For a place to "BECOME" off-limits, implies what ? It implies that it WASN'T off-limits PRIOR to that. And if that is the case, then what's presumputous about md'ing ? Hence the statement sort of explodes in on itself, as self-contradicting.

In other words: to the extent what you're saying is true, the solution is not that the rest of us need to go around grovelling to city halls everywhere we come to. The SOLUTION is for that one md'r to a) take a repeat in the "target recovery 101 class", and b) take a lesson in a little .... uh .... discreetness so as not to stick out like a sore thumb, in the first place.

The reason places become off limits is because careless people feel entitled to detect anywhere they wish. Meaning when people get caught in restricted areas, on private property and sensitive areas like cemeteries, it ends up causing stronger regulations, more regulations and a overall bad image for the hobby. Who said to grovel at city hall? Nobody is talking about places where it's clearly allowed or not allowed. We are talking about where it's questionable.

Some people will detect questionable areas until they get run off, others will ask beforehand. Those who take it upon themselves to do as the wish will cause a far more negative image than somebody asking permission. Nobody asks if they can dig up the park, they ask if metal detecting is restricted or for the regulations pertaining to it. There are many people who don't know how to cut a proper plug, and others who don't fill in their holes. This is the problem, not asking permission once in awhile. A city park with no restrictions wouldn't require permission, however the lawn of the courthouse or city hall probably would.

If somebody is on vacation they may not have checked the regulation for an area of interest, they may not want to waste time hunting regulations when they could be hunting coins. There is nothing wrong with asking the local authorities where detecting is allowed and not allowed. Sure they could be wrong and give a no, but that's not going to ruin a vacation as much as a few fines or a ride in a police car. Personally I think you are taking this whole permission thing way to far. Of all the things threatening this hobby I can honestly say asking permission is not one of them.

I have yet to see one example where asking permission has led to a place becoming off limits, yet there are dozens of accounts on this forum alone where asking permission has turned out well. I have made my point, you either get it or you don't, I'm done with discussing it because this is going nowhere.

 

[TheSleeper]

Tom_IN_CA, Tom god as my witness I totally understand where your coming from, I totally get it, too many areas I use to hunt are now off limits. All because of people digging and leaving holes, last month I spent a few hours on the phone with the head ranger in the town I live in discussing the parks and our ability to hunt them. Detecting is legal, BUT digging or disturbing the ground is NOT, sorta an oxymoran there. He actually laughed with me on that part.

My feelings toward the government cannot be discussed here, there are ladies and children present, so the aspect of me having to ask permission to detect somewhere really goes against my grain. But in this day and age, especially for new hunters OR people traveling out of state, to make sure they stay safe from legal issues, yes, I whole heartedly suggest them stopping and taking the time to ask someone in the position of, heck can't think of the word I'm searching for, so they will not get in trouble.

Tom, that's all I am after, protecting the new hunters or those traveling out of state. I would rather them be told no, by some idiot in control then to have them confronted by a law enforcement officer.

Can we come to an agreement, call it a gentleman's agreement, that pertaining to these two aspects we both agree, please sir?

 

[Diggin-N-Dumps]

I'm done with discussing it because this is going nowhere.

Now there's something we can agree on

 

[Digging Deeper]

Great thread now let's lock it. Lol

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Agree, these are becoming just like the cemetery threads.