"Pegleg Was A Liar" - The Pegleg Smith Chronicles, Continued

[Garry]

Hello All

You Might like this early article on him if it is the right Peg leg Smith of Course? Sacramento Daily union, Volume 14, 12th March 1858. Article "Peg leg Smith A Short sketch of his life"
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Crow

Crow,

I know I’m late to the game, but I was unaware of this early article (1858) regarding Thomas L. Smith (Peg-Leg). Thanks again. I’m not interested in Peg-Leg’s treasure story, but I do find Thomas L. Smith an interesting subject. The thing I’m working on presently is; What kind of Liar was Peg-leg? Tenderfoot beware? Anything he utters is a lie? Somewhere in between?

I’m ready to dismiss the treasure story attributed to him as false. Pegleg died in 1866 and I have found nothing that remotely ties him to the later treasure stories.

Maybe someone can help me and point out the earliest published mention of the Peg-Leg tale?

Two first-hand accounts of individuals who probably spoke with Peg-Leg are the Sacramento newspaper story (1858) and James Hutchings California Magazine (1860). If anyone knows of any similar articles, they would be much appreciated.

Garry

 

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[Crow]

Crow,

I know I’m late to the game, but I was unaware of this early article (1858) regarding Thomas L. Smith (Peg-Leg). Thanks again. I’m not interested in Peg-Leg’s treasure story, but I do find Thomas L. Smith an interesting subject. The thing I’m working on presently is; What kind of Liar was Peg-leg? Tenderfoot beware? Anything he utters is a lie? Somewhere in between?

I’m ready to dismiss the treasure story attributed to him as false. Pegleg died in 1866 and I have found nothing that remotely ties him to the later treasure stories.

Maybe someone can help me and point out the earliest published mention of the Peg-Leg tale?

Two first-hand accounts of individuals who probably spoke with Peg-Leg are the Sacramento newspaper story (1858) and James Hutchings California Magazine (1860). If anyone knows of any similar articles, they would be much appreciated.

Garry

Hello Garry this might be of some interest.

Solomon Nunes Carvalho wrote a book Travel and Adventure in the far West col Fremonts last expedition dated published 1860 see below who mentions peg leg and to him his improbable search for gold.

See below book and reference.

What we can learn this.

One: the lost gold story at least can to traced to a Peg leg smith to 1860?

Two; The author of the book Solomon Nunes Carvalho thought so at least that Peg legs stories was improbable back in 1860 at least? That was his opinion of his encounter with him published in 1860 His encounter of him must of before that date perhaps 1858 -1859?

Crow

 

[Crow]

Hello Garry

In regards to your question about Peg leg being liar? In nearly forty years of research into lost treasures and treasure legends, I have become very wary of treasure stories coming from a sole person?

Most of these larger than life characters display similar traits. Egocentrism is the inability to differentiate between self and other. More specifically, it is the inability to accurately assume or understand any perspective other than one's own. Egocentrism is found across the life span: in infancy, early childhood, adolescence, and adulthood.

It is more common than people think? And not just in regards to treasure legends you can find it in work school., In many industries in many walks of life. anywhere. There have been a few at Treaurenet that have those traits. Its a habit that males seem more inclined to have? Yet with changing roles of women in society seem to catching up.

With these in regards to single person treasure stories the treasure story centers solely around them? The Peg leg story is not the only treasure story like that? The Dutchman is another example. Lassiters reef in Australia is a another classic example.

Lying or exaggerating from these figures is part of the process.
To them is a means to an end. Some will not ever realize their egocentricity. To complicate this eccentricity there is scale on how much a person is egocentric.

Many are on the scale including myself all be it on the lower end of the scale. But there are plenty on the extreme end of scale that would never admit that because they have zero comprehension of it.

Getting back to Peg leg there is clear history of these who met him suggested those trait of character wanting to the center of attention. Lying for them is a means to an end for their eternal quest for fame and fortune. Either telling a story enough to get backer to bankroll his gold hunting searches?

From what I can guess of Peg leg smith he was hardy self centered man that survived the American frontier being exactly what he was. He was A 49ER treasure seeker back then. Today just like many here are on eternal quest for his moment of glory.

Smith in some respects achieved that goal of immortality even if not financially as he has now past into legends. enthralling other egocentrics desperate to make their mark in history. Who some over time add to these legends.

These stories grow out of proportions from the original story. The Dutchman story among others is a classic story.A whole encyclopedia of people who said they done that are no nearer to the truth than when the story first surfaced.

The treasure for many egocentric people is immortality!
For those who follow their footsteps the treasure is being discoverer of Peg legs gold or Dutchmans for example?

Being the discoverer for some is worh more than the gold itself. Peg leg smith story is one such example that are the building blocks of many a treasure legend. The 1965 claim we will never know for sure? was it egocentric discovery or a real discovery? or both?

That is what makes these treasure stories interesting?
That they are a tangled web of lies half truths and few facts in between.

For me I love all treasure legends. but there is very few I would devote a lifetime of time and money to!

If you cannot find an independant source proving the treasure exists to begin with? Then you are just chasing your tails under the whims of an egocentric.

Crow

 

[Crow]

A few things I should clarify I should say that people with egocentric character traits is not entirely a bad thing?

Many are very successful in their lives?
Others are not?

There has over the years very successful people who have engaged in treasure seeking. But regardless with thier sucess of failure? Those daring to seek and venture forth are ones that are pushing the boundies of who we are today. Treaure hunting is primevel charcter trait streching back to time when we was real hunters and gatherers. Treasure back then was for food for surival. But desire and urge is with us all.

Pegleg smith lied for his survial , his egocentricity as means to end to achive his goals. There are many such characters tied to such treasure legends.

Crow

 

[releventchair]

Hello Garry this might be of some interest.

Solomon Nunes Carvalho wrote a book Travel and Adventure in the far West col Fremonts last expedition dated published 1860 see below who mentions peg leg and to him his improbable search for gold.

See below book and reference.

View attachment 2125492

View attachment 2125493

What we can learn this.

One: the lost gold story at least can to traced to a Peg leg smith to 1860?

Two; The author of the book Solomon Nunes Carvalho thought so at least that Peg legs stories was improbable back in 1860 at least? That was his opinion of his encounter with him published in 1860 His encounter of him must of before that dare perhaps 1858 -1859?

Crow

well , We can always learn something ; eventually.

Our author the artist we can decipher has a lot of baggage to be crossing the country.
And that someone or the entire party is losing the footwork of thier animals.
The mention of a horse giving out and it's being to the wagon related to our artist.

Something I object to , that is a horse being put to that level.
But in reality it was not uncommon.
But I'll hint I'd be a bit more determined not to walk. Or have my convoy disturbed due to horse giving out.

But , let me point out the contrast of the weather beaten Smith party's mounts. Mules all.
One may hazard less if any baggage train!
Our artist now flirting with "dude" status makes him fair game for a "big fish story" . Or three!
Were such stories not expected?
And when gold was the topic and these are folks that are not living a life of dainty delicacies....GOLD could be a sensitive spot to poke about at. But being case hardened a story would be readily at hand..
No they were not overburdened by gold. Obviously or they wouldn't have been encountered.

Then there are as there were the few who actually were into possession of gold.
There is no good reason to advertise. Not one!
Yes some did. I won't give my name for such behavior.
Others were foundout.
But the best reply to accusation , suspicion , or demand regarding anything about gold that a person knew or knows is a story.
Survival is right.

Sure those in the know through actual encounter with tangible gold of considerable amount were minorities.
That left a LOT of sour would be gold laden wanna be miners .prospectors and speculators.
Many of whom were lured to gold fields by big fish stories in the first place.

Gold was and is very real.
Around 300,000 folk headed to California alone!
Based on what incentive? Anyone they knew returning to thier home burden with gold? L.o.l..
Or a big fish story?

Tell them what they want to hear and you'll have an audience.
Maybe even a drinks and tobacco audience.

 

[Garry]

well , We can always learn something ; eventually.

Our author the artist we can decipher has a lot of baggage to be crossing the country.
And that someone or the entire party is losing the footwork of thier animals.
The mention of a horse giving out and it's being to the wagon related to our artist.

Something I object to , that is a horse being put to that level.
But in reality it was not uncommon.
But I'll hint I'd be a bit more determined not to walk. Or have my convoy disturbed due to horse giving out.

But , let me point out the contrast of the weather beaten Smith party's mounts. Mules all.
One may hazard less if any baggage train!
Our artist now flirting with "dude" status makes him fair game for a "big fish story" . Or three!
Were such stories not expected?
And when gold was the topic and these are folks that are not living a life of dainty delicacies....GOLD could be a sensitive spot to poke about at. But being case hardened a story would be readily at hand..
No they were not overburdened by gold. Obviously or they wouldn't have been encountered.

Then there are as there were the few who actually were into possession of gold.
There is no good reason to advertise. Not one!
Yes some did. I won't give my name for such behavior.
Others were foundout.
But the best reply to accusation , suspicion , or demand regarding anything about gold that a person knew or knows is a story.
Survival is right.

Sure those in the know through actual encounter with tangible gold of considerable amount were minorities.
That left a LOT of sour would be gold laden wanna be miners .prospectors and speculators.
Many of whom were lured to gold fields by big fish stories in the first place.

Gold was and is very real.
Around 300,000 folk headed to California alone!
Based on what incentive? Anyone they knew returning to thier home burden with gold? L.o.l..
Or a big fish story?

Tell them what they want to hear and you'll have an audience.
Maybe even a drinks and tobacco audience.

Hello Garry this might be of some interest.

Solomon Nunes Carvalho wrote a book Travel and Adventure in the far West col Fremonts last expedition dated published 1860 see below who mentions peg leg and to him his improbable search for gold.

See below book and reference.

View attachment 2125492

View attachment 2125493

What we can learn this.

One: the lost gold story at least can to traced to a Peg leg smith to 1860?

Two; The author of the book Solomon Nunes Carvalho thought so at least that Peg legs stories was improbable back in 1860 at least? That was his opinion of his encounter with him published in 1860 His encounter of him must of before that date perhaps 1858 -1859?

Crow

Thanks for the replys!
The Carvalho book sounds like just what I'm looking for. I ordered it yesterday. I hope it will help me pinpoint a couple of things. When and where did the encounter take place between the Peg-leg party and Carvalho party? Right now, I'm guessing that it took place in June of 1854. I'm also looking for the location of Kingstone Springs? and maybe pick up some additional locations that will shed light on the trail that Peg-Leg and Carvalho shared.
As far as Peg-leg being a liar, I am wondering how much faith I can put into things like his date of birth, Middle name, ancestry and even how he got his pegleg.

Garry

 

[Crow]

There has been many interesting past posts about peg leg.

PEG LEG

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

There has been many interesting past posts about peg leg.

PEG LEG

Crow

Valuable sources documenting European/American activities in the American West during the early 19th century are the journals, memoirs and histories of the fur trappers. They were all over the region seeking beaver pelts of course, but always looking for mineral too. Many signs they created to mark trapping caches have been erroneously identified as "Spanish Treasure" clues.

 

[Crow]

Me personally I have never been sold on the concept of Spanish treasure marks personally. In all the Spanish documents I have read i have never come across any mention of them It seems to me as if it was Anglo American concept mid to late 2oth century added to sell treasure hunting books. Book authors started pumping that idea that its now ingrained in public imagination.

While there was trail markers to water, to wells and such and possible venerate site. And early Spanish explorer marked their names and date of explorations.

Crow

 

[sdcfia]

Me personally I have never been sold on the concept of Spanish treasure marks personally. In all the Spanish documents I have read i have never come across any mention of them It seems to me as if it was Anglo American concept mid to late 2oth century added to sell treasure hunting books. Book authors started pumping that idea that its now ingrained in public imagination.

While there was trail markers to water, to wells and such and possible venerate site. And early Spanish explorer marked their names and date of explorations.

Crow

I couldn't have said it any more succinctly than you just did.

Ha ha. Not that I haven't tried. Here is a thread I started years ago when I was posting under a different handle. https://www.treasurenet.com/threads/who-owned-those-spanish-mines.278600/

IMHO, many, many of the "lost Spanish mines/caves of gold" treasure tales were "revealed" in the 1930s, following the traitor FDR's Gold Act of 1933, which outlawed possession of US gold coins - real money then. The citizenry was forced to turn in their metal for devalued paper. This reduced Americans' "value of money" by 70% in order to prop up the steadily failing Ponzi scheme known as the American dollar.

A number of the nations' elite were not compliant. Many thousands of gold coins were melted down into crude ingots and cached in the 1930s. By not being identifiable, the gold was then tradable through US mining companies, world exchanges and private negotiations. Its intrinsic value, unlike paper certificates, was maintained. As a security measure to insure that the cache sites remained secret, a "Spanish treasure legend" was fabricated in the general vicinity of their locations. These tales eventually appeared in the public media, and many "clues" - carvings, monuments, maps, testimonies, et al, were "discovered" to support the "legends". Searchers have been running in circles ever since, looking for the "Spanish gold".

Do the caches still exist? The only ones who know for sure are their owners. Beginning in the 1970s, a lot of these folks were rebranded as "KGC", another rabbi hole to confuse snoopy searchers.

 

[Crow]

For me the money ticket in United states is researching hidden caches from people who did not trust banks who late died not revealing the location? but have left some clue to possible their caches are. Most are gold coin either fear of being robbed in civil war from both sides. Or from 1892 back failure and rural depression, Or The great depression and the gold act. the size of hoards are not in billions or perhaps even million. But substantial all the same.

Jeff delightedly posts many newspaper stories of people dying leaving some of their money on properties or nearby . What might be few hundred or thousand dollars back then with price of gold today can create tidy sums of money.

What is fantastic in the United States it is shear volume of such stories. Researching those stories might have a better chance to make discovery. Or searching gold rush temporary towns tent city sites where people buried gold or money to keep safe died in mining accidents or murdered whatever never have returned.

So for me is finding temporary towns, mining camps that have come and gone. pioneer cellar holes and privies long since vanished and properties that had reports of lost or hidden hoards. Getting access and permission to search on land in private hands is problem. But that is just the same anywhere even in the UK.
Treasure seekers are often inspired by historic legends, although sometimes riches that have slipped off the radar entirely can be discovered.

For example Lovelock, Nevada was once home to a settlement of Chinese families who likely came to work on the railroad back in the 19th century. Establishing their own businesses, the community quickly flourished – but Lovelock was left all but deserted by 1975. When freeway construction work started nearby, contractors performed the required archeological study of the remaining buildings. What they found astonished them.

Tucked away within the buildings was a cache of gold, silver, and other coins from the US, China, and Japan, worth an incredible $200,000. The collection is currently held by the Nevada State Museum.

Peg leg treasure legend as well as many other famous legends by enlarge just legends to tease us with the question what if?


Crow

 

[Old Bookaroo]

One of the lost treasure stories is about a guy who found gold stuck to volcanic cinder material. It was very hot and he breathed in too much of the sulfur fumes from an outgas. He died on his way to town. Nobody has ever been able to find the source. There are several volcanic cones in the lower Mojave Desert.

Best - Mike

Howdy, Mike!

Your post reminded me of "Black Gold in Fumes of Death" - a chapter in Lost Mines and Hidden Treasures by "Leland Lovelace" (pgs. 198-204 in the classic 1956 Ace paperback edition; the Naylor hardcover is not at hand).

It is tricky to keep apart the Pegleg Smith yarns from other tales about black (volcanic) gold nuggets.

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[Old Bookaroo]

There has been many interesting past posts about peg leg.

PEG LEG

Crow

Howdy, Crow -

Thank you for that excellent TN link! There is some good stuff there.

May I add one more?

"The Lost Mines of the Desert - Part III: The Peg -Leg Mine"

Good luck to all,

The Old Bookaroo

 

[ARC]

Only women call me peg leg .... :P

 

[Crow]

Only women call me peg leg .... :P

Yeah yeah women call me something too. But I cant post it here? It would make scurvy dog of sailor blush.

Ouch! Got find that voodoo doll they av of me!

Crow