Old Shotgun ID Help

[ConnerB123]

I found this shotgun in my grandfathers storage shed on his property. It belonged to my 3rd great grandfather who purchased it around 1913 or 1914. There is a patent date of August 12 1913 on the top of the barrel. I cannot make out the maker but i see the end of sonething that is "de arms." It is not a J. Stevens shotgun. It is not a foreign make either as it was purchased in the back country of Alabama. I will post pictures in a moment if i can figure it out, so please keep a lookout on this thread if you think you can help ID. Thanks.

 

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[ConnerB123]

Iconner24's Library | Photobucket

 

[ConnerB123]

Also it is a 12 gauge with a 30 in. Barrel

 

[AlabamaRelic]

I found this shotgun in my grandfathers storage shed on his property. It belonged to my 3rd great grandfather who purchased it around 1913 or 1914. There is a patent date of August 12 1913 on the top of the barrel. I cannot make out the maker but i see the end of sonething that is "de arms." It is not a J. Stevens shotgun. It is not a foreign make either as it was purchased in the back country of Alabama. I will post pictures in a moment if i can figure it out, so please keep a lookout on this thread if you think you can help ID. Thanks.

Your photobucket album is empty. Where exactly is the back country of Alabama?

 

[ConnerB123]

Hmm...there should be a album titled mobile uploads. And im not sure where in Alabama he bought it. My family has just lived in the middle of no where for generations.

 

[ConnerB123]

That should fix the photos i think

 

[releventchair]

Hmm. Some company building shotguns under Stevens patent not uncommon. Don,t know if Iver Johnson did but they may have made one labeled defender. Maybe more info is under fore arm. Stamped in metal or wood. Photo bucket had no pic for me. "Riverside arms" chicopee Mass. fits your letters.Riverside Arms Co related questions

 

[ConnerB123]

Yes! I can actually see that chicoppe mass. In the marking now! That helps tremendously! On the bottom of the barrel it has what appears to be 589 with OL under that and then a P in a circle under that.

 

[releventchair]

Circled p is proof. (it was tested for strength). I,m lost on the others,a model no. perhaps.

 

[ConnerB123]

I cant find a model no. Hm. Maybe i could take it to my gunsmith cousin and he can tell me the model from the info you have given. I might have him preserve the gun for me since it is in no condition to shoot.

 

[AlabamaRelic]

Hmm...there should be a album titled mobile uploads. And im not sure where in Alabama he bought it. My family has just lived in the middle of no where for generations.

So, where in Alabama has your family lived? You need to post pictures of this shotgun.

 

[ConnerB123]

All over east central area. I cant post pics from mobile for some reason

 

[releventchair]

Riverside arms were produced by Stevens. That three digit number may be model. Stevens claimed a loss of records that remained lost during accusations when they were a leading builder of arms, some impropriety in pricing with government or something.

 

[ConnerB123]

Thanks for the help guys. Cant wait to have it preserved and hung over my fireplace as a family piece.

 

[stefen]

I have several from that period including a LeFever double with a 26" trap barrel...wall hooks would be more expensive that the gun is worth as a hanger...

 

[1shotwade]

CAUTION ; This gun is chambered for 12 ga., 2 7/16. Everyone will tell you to not shoot it with modern loads as they are a 2 3/4 chamber. If it's the right gun as far as tightness a light load of modern ammo can be used but EVERYONE will tell you don't do it. The problem is that the plastic shell casing will open up when fired and extend past the chamber and into the barrel causing an extremely tight "choke of the plastic casing and the plastic cup. It'll seriously kick and hold an extremely tight pattern down range.I shoot my 1916 Stevens all the time,but then again it is a chance most people don't want to take.
Another thing about this gun is that it was not meant to be aimed. If you put your head down on the gun and try to aim using the front bead sight you shot pattern will always be about 12-14 low at 20 yards.Actually aiming a shotgun is relatively new. These old guns were "point shooters".Just thought you should know!

Wade

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Circled p is proof. (it was tested for strength). I,m lost on the others,a model no. perhaps.

If that's the case the barrel wasn't made in the US. We've never had a proof house; still don't.

http://www.nramuseum.org/media/940944/proofmarks.pdf

A circle with a "P" might be Spanish

 

[NOLA_Ken]

CAUTION ; This gun is chambered for 12 ga., 2 7/16. Everyone will tell you to not shoot it with modern loads as they are a 2 3/4 chamber. If it's the right gun as far as tightness a light load of modern ammo can be used but EVERYONE will tell you don't do it. The problem is that the plastic shell casing will open up when fired and extend past the chamber and into the barrel causing an extremely tight "choke of the plastic casing and the plastic cup. It'll seriously kick and hold an extremely tight pattern down range.I shoot my 1916 Stevens all the time,but then again it is a chance most people don't want to take.
Another thing about this gun is that it was not meant to be aimed. If you put your head down on the gun and try to aim using the front bead sight you shot pattern will always be about 12-14 low at 20 yards.Actually aiming a shotgun is relatively new. These old guns were "point shooters".Just thought you should know!

Wade

I don't get the feeling he wants to shoot it, but the major problem would be firing modern loads in a barrel made for black powder loads. If you don't know how to identify Damascus barrels, take it to a certified gunsmith and have it checked out....I don't know about a 2 7/16ths shell, but I have seen 2 1/2 inch, which it is my understanding were specialty loads and not very common. I don't think I have seen a gun chambered especially for them, or at least not one I can recall.

 

[ConnerB123]

I am going to have my cousin have a look at the shotgun and see what he can do for restoration. I also have him check out if modern ammo can be used with it. He has been a gunsmith for over 50 years so i hope i can trust his judgement. Would hate to have this blow up in my face.

 

[ConnerB123]

But 90 percent of the time itll be a wall hanger