OK LUE hounds, go to work on this

[Randy Bradford]

I need to check my files...Uracca Mesa is fascinating but if memory serves me correctly there's two things on it that make it even more so. Really wish I knew how to cobble together some simple maps, I have some features that I'd like to get a look at all together.

Incidentally, probably the best LUE researcher I knew said researching the Maxwell Land Grant would yield some interesting conclusions.

 

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[Randy Bradford]

Soooooo

Urraca Mesa has a geologic feature commonly referred to as "The Tooth of Time. There are not one, but two Benchmark monuments in the immediate area. Take a look and tell me if anything about these reminds you at all of the LUE:



Interesting eh?

Ran across these on a geocaching site quite by accident: https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=GM0786

 

[Ryano]

Randy, I think you turned over a major clue as to the what the symbols on the LUE Map, or rather the Valley of Secrets icons are.

Check out the history of US Survey Markers and see how the Triangle and Reference Marker logos evolved over time (figure 25 is where it looks very familiar)

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf

 

[Randy Bradford]

Randy, I think you turned over a major clue as to the what the symbols on the LUE Map, or rather the Valley of Secrets icons are.

Check out the history of US Survey Markers and see how the Triangle and Reference Marker logos evolved over time (figure 25 is where it looks very familiar)

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/web/about_ngs/history/Survey_Mark_Art.pdf

Turn Figure 7 Clockwise 90 degrees....remind you of anything?

 

[Ryano]

Turn Figure 7 Clockwise 90 degrees....remind you of anything?

Sorry if it appears vertical instead of horizontal ...

I've been checking https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/NGSDataExplorer/ for marker locations and there are 3 Benchmark Markers right in the Segundo valley area alone. Also a couple near Black Lake and Taos area. These markers are "everywhere" (over 270,000 in the U.S.).

I hesitate to draw any conclusions but it's hard not to see the stunning resemblance between KvM's Valley of Secrets illustrations and these survey icons and the marker locations. Either KvM was inspired by them or the markers are part of the clues ? ? ?

 

[sdcfia]

You want a fool-proof treasure map? Get a surveyor and a cryptologist. Then pepper your venue with enigmatic clues that seem to mean one thing (King's Code, ha ha) but actually mean another. Observant searchers will find the clues and wander in circles until they give up or die of old age. Then later, when you want to retrieve the goods, they'll be right where you left them.

There are many ways to play the NGS brass caps. There are a couple million of them, yes, but many millions more PLSS caps based on state prime meridians established 150-200 years ago. Then, with the handy USGS quad sheets (also more than 100 years old), you can play all sorts of games to ensure the security of your loot. I imagine most of the bonafide caches use some variation of this strategy. The nice part of it is that the caps are permanent. If one is destroyed, it'll soon be replaced. You can't say that for rock cairns, tree carvings, or even inscribed rocks.

 

[South Sea mariner]

Hola Amigos

As always some interesting comments. Its seems a lot of people interested in the LUE map and story?

Would'nt it be nice for all the various Lue posts across the forums was placed all together in their own Lue Forum?

Mal

 

[Randy Bradford]

I made a request for one since I cannot update the one I put together listing all of the different threads. Cross your fingers.

 

[Al D]

Yes, that longitude is quite a coincidence isn't it? Since I don't believe in coincidences, I have to wonder if these stones are somehow related to the so-called LUE. I have no idea what the LUE is supposed to be. Despite all the LUE chatter, I'm thinking it's simply a KGC site without a very good cover story.

Mr. Serna's book shows a small simple "unknown grave" in the cemetery where the Ponil Stone is standing that has a Maltese Cross carved on it. The grave carving reminds me of a very similar carving near the entrance of a "treasure cave" in southern Colorado (San Luis Valley?).

It's interesting that the property where the stones were found was owned by a mega-millionaire, Lucian Maxwell. Also, the St. James Hotel in nearby Cimarron, where the first stone is displayed, had some interesting guests back in the day, including Jesse James several times. These circumstances fit the KGC too. If so, your dates may be on target.

That also happens to be a Templar Meridian

 

[Rebel - KGC]

That also happens to be a Templar Meridian

Did Columbus know...?

 

[Al D]

Did Columbus know...?

Hmmm

 

[Ryano]

Templar Meridian ? Please elaborate !

 

[Al D]

Templar Meridian ? Please elaborate !

A book titled “The Templar Meridians” by William Mann presents the theory thet the Templars came to America in the late 1300’s
regardless if believed or not, it is interesting to note that every site attributed to the Templars is located on a Templar Meridian as measured from Newport Tower,
a Templar Meridian is every eight degrees longitude.

 

[Ryano]

Thanks for the book title. I think I've seen that longitude/meridian referred to before. Only problem I see attaching any significance or pattern to the "grid" is that while the distance between latitude lines are uniform, distances between lines of longitude are variable according to latitude since they originate and terminate at the poles and are furthest apart at the equator. In other words, a plotted line every "8 degrees" longitude is only equidistant between points if those points remain on a fixed latitude line.

 

[sdcfia]

Thanks for the book title. I think I've seen that longitude/meridian referred to before. Only problem I see attaching any significance or pattern to the "grid" is that while the distance between latitude lines are uniform, distances between lines of longitude are variable according to latitude since they originate and terminate at the poles and are furthest apart at the equator. In other words, a plotted line every "8 degrees" longitude is only equidistant between points if those points remain on a fixed latitude line.

Yes, but any two points can be very accurately placed on that lat/long grid - it's the basis of land surveying and sea navigation. The problem has historically been determining east/west position. North/south position (latitude) has been easy to calculate for millennia using the sun's position at noon or the declination of Polaris. East/west (latitude) is a different ball game and requires elapsed time calculations from a fixed point on the globe.

Crude surveyors were able to calculate latitude pretty accurately and maintain it by traveling due east or west. Tough in the mountains, but it could be recalculated daily if need be. A completely arbitrary longitude line could be chosen by a mapper and maintained on the ground by traveling due north or south. Much more difficult, but possible and less accurate the further traveled. It's my opinion, contrary to accepted dogma, that the ancients (and later the Templars) were capable of determining longitude without accurate timepieces, but by using celestial navigation techniques - but that's OT here.

Mann's book is a worthwhile read for sure - Newport Tower in Rhode Island being a major Templar meridian (longitudinal line). The tower sits at 71.3 degrees west of Greenwich (today's arbitrary zero meridian). I have to disagree with alan m's theory because, at 8-degree intervals, westerly Templar meridians would be at 103.3 or 111.3 degrees, whereas the "LUE meridian" is allegedly 105.2 degrees. A 2 degree offset at this latitude is roughly 120 miles.

I tend to agree with many of the Templar/North America speculations, but to me, the axis mundi-related mapping theories are even more interesting to speculate about. Cort Lindahl's YouTube channel is a good place to take a look at some of those ideas. Mind-blowing in some cases, and an incentive to start playing around with Great Circles on Google Earth.

 

[Al D]

There is some debate as to which prime meridian was used, Newport Tower for sure but also possibly Jerusalem.
which would put 105 degree Lue longitude to within 0.5 degrees of a Templar Meridian. Still, it is difficult to see how they did it without an accurate timepiece, mayby they did use a water clock, which has been proposed by some researchers.

damn math, it is not 0.5 degrees, it would be about 4 degrees, I need to check my math more closely

 

[sdcfia]

There is some debate as to which prime meridian was used, Newport Tower for sure but also possibly Jerusalem.
which would put 105 degree Lue longitude to within 0.5 degrees of a Templar Meridian. Still, it is difficult to see how they did it without an accurate timepiece, mayby they did use a water clock, which has been proposed by some researchers.

damn math, it is not 0.5 degrees, it would be about 4 degrees, I need to check my math more closely

Theoretically (mine anyway), there would have to have been historical data available for accurate observations of certain stars in the zodiac constellations in the earth's ecliptic plane. Some have speculated that just such data was among the "treasures" the Knights Templar discovered in Solomon's Temple during their occupation of it during the Crusades. If such a record of midnight observations taken at, say, the pyramid of Giza (zero longitude) was available, then with proper directional orientation and an accurate 12-hour hourglass, one could calculate the time variation (longitude) from Giza for any location on earth. You take a noon sun shot during the day, turn the hourglass, and take your celestial observation twelve hours later when the sand runs out. The calculation would need to be adjusted for the number of days elapsed since the original Giza observation because of the Precession of the Equinoxes. Sounds complicated, but the trick is having the original observations.

Some have speculated that many of the pre-Columbian ruins found in the New World and elsewhere, tentatively identified as "observatories", were originally established by ancient world travelers in order to accumulate data of celestial observations and that a convenient network of such "control points" allowed explorers to know exactly where they were in their travels. The Aztecs' obsession with the stars may be a prime New World survey control point - maybe even established by the Templars. The Aztecs were taught by "bearded white men from the east", so they said.

"History" says man couldn't figure longitude reliably until the 18th century, but I'm not so sure.

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Hello All,

Hope this is interesting to you who have been there?

""

Its "NOT" knights templar its Spanish.

I have

For your information: Mr. serna is delusional in his thinking.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Hello All,

For those who know it. Here is the Spanish Directional Marker in the St. James Hotel.

View attachment 1746580

View attachment 1746581

View attachment 1746582

Its a nice old hotel Located in Cimarron, New Mexico

Its worth going to if you get a chance as several famous personalities have stayed in it rooms and hallways.

Regards

LUE-Hawn

 

[LUE-Hawn]

Hello All,

Here is the St. James Hotel in Cimarron, New Mexico



Regards

LUE-Hawn