Off Topic - Bitcoin?

[mineralized_miner]

My friend's dad had 40 chinese computers from his company, and he used them all (he has INCREDIBLE internet) to mine for bitcoins, and got like 5 over the last 2 months. He used them to get a good computer...

A lot of the chinese computers did not even work, even though they appeared to the same computers, some of them had no processors or gpu's, so only like 30 of them worked for mining bitcoins.

 

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[silverdollarbill]

Hello Everyone,

Many of you have provided me with a wealth of information about garage sale hunting. Unfortunately, I am not much of an expert in this field so I cannot return the favor. I am however, somewhat of an expert in bitcoin and since it seems like some of you are interested, I want to share.

I'm glad to see there is some activity on this post, but there is clearly a lot of misunderstanding about bitcoin (BTC). I will do my best to address some of those things:

1) Bitcoin can not be used to sell goods because of the price fluctuations [FALSE]
- if a merchant were to sell good via BTC and hold them, they would be subject to such fluctuations (many merchants who take BTC believe in it, so they do decide to hold on to their BTC)
- however, most merchants will instantly convert to USD or the currency of their choice using Bitpay: https://bitpay.com/

2) You can only spend BTC for online things. [FALSE]
- check out this site: https://spendbitcoins.com/places/
- more and more places accept BTC
- it is only a matter of time before one of the big 3 (Amazon, Paypal, Google) begin to accept it
- With Virgin, you can go to outer space with BTC
- Finally, and most importantly, you can buy beer with BTC Bitcoin: the Berlin streets where you can shop with virtual money | Technology | theguardian.com
- Berlin has the highest number of shops that accept BTC (The Germans know something about Central Bank debasement of currency)

3) BTC is only for drug dealers and nefarious individuals [FALSE]
- this is one of the biggest lies that are out there (This lie exists for a reason.)
- most of the early BTC miners were computer nerds and Libertarians not drug dealers
- yes, the Silk Road did only accept BTC
- however, cash is used for exponentially more illegal transactions than BTC, should we ban cash?

4) BTC can be co-opted by the Government or other entity
- no one owns BTC
- it is a distributed software that anyone can run and an algorithm, that is it
- it cannot be co-opted by any government or single entity
- governments/banks would love a crypto-currency as long as they can control it (Central banks fear bitcoin. It competes with their monopoly of money.)
(There is some concern that the system could be manipulated for a short-period of time if large pools of miners colluded, but that is theory and not relevant here)
- the individual who was arrested today was not the "CEO of bitcoin" as some headlines would lead you to believe. He is some 24 year old kid who ran a BTC exchange, that may or may not have provided services to individuals who used Silk Road.
- Ask yourself this: How many of the criminals/bankers who caused the 2008 financial crisis have been prosecuted? JP Morgan has paid $20B+ in fines for illegal activity this year, but no one has gone to jail. Fines for banks are now just a cost of doing business. While the justice department has resources to go after minor BTC "criminals" they cannot seem to prosecute the people who are looting our country. <End Soapbox Rant>

5) BTC is Speculative
- this is definitely partially true and much of the demand was coming from China (for numerous reasons)
- however, even after the Chinese government moved to stop BTC, the price did not collapse
- the Swiss are close to recognizing BTC as a currency and I believe other governments will follow
- there are huge price swings now because no one knows how to value it (5 years from now, people may look back and think $800 was a bargain)

As for our central banks aka The Federal Reserve:
- it is a private entity created by bankers to protect banker interests, period.
- through inflation, they slowly transfer wealth from the masses to the few
- through fractional reserve lending, they allow banks to create money out of thin air to loan to the masses at interest
- yes, the Fed is concerned with price stability and unemployment (They need to keep the sheep inline to keep the scam going. We are frogs being boiled.)
- Think different? Reading the Creature from Jekyl Island is a good place to start: Amazon.com: creature of jekyl island

If you are still reading and interested in BTC, send me a private message. (It may take me a couple days to follow up) If you can show me you actually read up and understand how BTC works, I will send you a small amount (couple dollars USD, so you can learn how they work). You will need a BTC client. Multibit is the easiest client to use. If you want to acquire BTC, coinbase.com is a legitimate and easy way to do so.

Happy Hunting everyone. In Liberty,
silverdollarbill

 

[jeff of pa]

i Knew it had to be some kind of rip off.ha ha ha HA HA HA HA .. The trouble with your bitcoin you come on here and put up sites were they can buy the things then some will put up money and of course lose there money…..

maybe it's a little bit of paranoia,
but when everybody is out to get you, paranoid is just good thinking !

but being the fed has their panties in a bunch over Silk Road & the fact they can't crack the codes, & bust all the buyers & sellers.
they may be thinking of a takeover & some adjustments from the inside
to avoid future issues like this
would sure help the IRS too if Bitcoin, instead of dying, skyrockets

I see there are already allot of coppy-cat bitcoin
& silk road type operations too.

 

[Coldshuz]

Personally, I think this is a great subject and am enjoying reading about it. Silverdollarbill seems well informed on the subject from what I've read.

Perhaps a category could be set up for it.

Personally, I've set up a wallet on my base home PC and looking for ways to mine, other then paying huge amounts for the GPU devices sold.
I've seen 2 ways that you can pay for a mining contract basically by the GH. Found both at Bitcoin Mining Hardware - ASIC Bitcoin Miner - Butterfly Labs. I've seen them on eBay as well, but I'm sure they're feeding on the uninformed.

Questions I would ask on this new "category" would be such things as:

Are these mining contracts a viable alternative to buying hardware? Perhaps making some bitcoins, hardware could be purchased with it.
Is a wallet required for each device? If I want to pay for something at the store with bitcoins, could a wallet on my smartphone be linked to my home wallet?
Suggestions to join a mining group?

 

[Peyton Manning]

thanks for the info Bill, very well explained. So if I get a bitcoin I will head to berlin for a St Pauli girl

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Hello Everyone,

Many of you have provided me with a wealth of information about garage sale hunting. Unfortunately, I am not much of an expert in this field so I cannot return the favor. I am however, somewhat of an expert in bitcoin and since it seems like some of you are interested, I want to share.

I'm glad to see there is some activity on this post, but there is clearly a lot of misunderstanding about bitcoin (BTC). I will do my best to address some of those things:

1) Bitcoin can not be used to sell goods because of the price fluctuations [FALSE]
- if a merchant were to sell good via BTC and hold them, they would be subject to such fluctuations (many merchants who take BTC believe in it, so they do decide to hold on to their BTC)
- however, most merchants will instantly convert to USD or the currency of their choice using Bitpay: https://bitpay.com/

2) You can only spend BTC for online things. [FALSE]
- check out this site: https://spendbitcoins.com/places/
- more and more places accept BTC
- it is only a matter of time before one of the big 3 (Amazon, Paypal, Google) begin to accept it
- With Virgin, you can go to outer space with BTC
- Finally, and most importantly, you can buy beer with BTC Bitcoin: the Berlin streets where you can shop with virtual money | Technology | theguardian.com
- Berlin has the highest number of shops that accept BTC (The Germans know something about Central Bank debasement of currency)

3) BTC is only for drug dealers and nefarious individuals [FALSE]
- this is one of the biggest lies that are out there (This lie exists for a reason.)
- most of the early BTC miners were computer nerds and Libertarians not drug dealers
- yes, the Silk Road did only accept BTC
- however, cash is used for exponentially more illegal transactions than BTC, should we ban cash?

4) BTC can be co-opted by the Government or other entity
- no one owns BTC
- it is a distributed software that anyone can run and an algorithm, that is it
- it cannot be co-opted by any government or single entity
- governments/banks would love a crypto-currency as long as they can control it (Central banks fear bitcoin. It competes with their monopoly of money.)
(There is some concern that the system could be manipulated for a short-period of time if large pools of miners colluded, but that is theory and not relevant here)
- the individual who was arrested today was not the "CEO of bitcoin" as some headlines would lead you to believe. He is some 24 year old kid who ran a BTC exchange, that may or may not have provided services to individuals who used Silk Road.
- Ask yourself this: How many of the criminals/bankers who caused the 2008 financial crisis have been prosecuted? JP Morgan has paid $20B+ in fines for illegal activity this year, but no one has gone to jail. Fines for banks are now just a cost of doing business. While the justice department has resources to go after minor BTC "criminals" they cannot seem to prosecute the people who are looting our country. <End Soapbox Rant>

5) BTC is Speculative
- this is definitely partially true and much of the demand was coming from China (for numerous reasons)
- however, even after the Chinese government moved to stop BTC, the price did not collapse
- the Swiss are close to recognizing BTC as a currency and I believe other governments will follow
- there are huge price swings now because no one knows how to value it (5 years from now, people may look back and think $800 was a bargain)

As for our central banks aka The Federal Reserve:
- it is a private entity created by bankers to protect banker interests, period.
- through inflation, they slowly transfer wealth from the masses to the few
- through fractional reserve lending, they allow banks to create money out of thin air to loan to the masses at interest
- yes, the Fed is concerned with price stability and unemployment (They need to keep the sheep inline to keep the scam going. We are frogs being boiled.)
- Think different? Reading the Creature from Jekyl Island is a good place to start: Amazon.com: creature of jekyl island

If you are still reading and interested in BTC, send me a private message. (It may take me a couple days to follow up) If you can show me you actually read up and understand how BTC works, I will send you a small amount (couple dollars USD, so you can learn how they work). You will need a BTC client. Multibit is the easiest client to use. If you want to acquire BTC, coinbase.com is a legitimate and easy way to do so.

Happy Hunting everyone. In Liberty,
silverdollarbill

Although what you have said in 1-5 above is basically true, your rant about the Federal Reserve is just the "pot calling the kettle black". How is your attack on the Federal Reserve any different than some of the attacks against bitcoin? Also, just because you have shown that many misconceptions exist concerning bitcoin, that does not logically mean that bitcoin is a good investment or that it will still be around 5 years from now. It might be, but then again, it might not.

The fact remains that we cannot know what will happen with bitcoin over the years and therefore, for most people, it is a speculative investment. It only takes one major hack of the bitcoin system to doom the currency forever. And despite the fact that most people believe the US dollar is not backed by anything, this is in general a misconception. Bitcoin though is not currently backed by ANYTHING and as such is subject to the whims of the speculators who invest in it. I'm not saying you are wrong or right. You are entitled to your opinion and that is all either of us can present here. 20 years from now we may all look back and think that $800 was very cheap for bitcoins. Or.... we may look back and think that anyone paying $800 for a slice of vaporware was a fool. There is currently no way to know which is more likely.

Yes, I can buy stuff with bitcoins. In the '80s I could buy stuff with beanie babies too if I could find someone who wanted my beanie babies more than they wanted the goods they were selling... But when no one wants your beanie babies you may end up holding the proverbial "bean bag"...

 

[cyberdan]

All these post about BTC but none explaining how they are made.
I see the words mining, computers, contracts.

It looks like they are made on your computer, but how can that create something of value?

please explain.

 

[jeff of pa]

All these post about BTC but none explaining how they are made.
I see the words mining, computers, contracts.

It looks like they are made on your computer, but how can that create something of value?

please explain.

only way I can explain it , is, it is
like a imaginary pre-paid credit card that gains & looses interest.
as far as I can tell
words like mining, are like words like Tweeting.
just made up by yuppies to use to describe getting more bitcoin points

although actual bitcoins are supposed to be imaginary,
there is someone producing actual coins for those who want them.
I believe they may scan like a credit card or ?

as you can see I'm a bit lost on them too

only thing sure is The Fed can't crack the code that says who owns what yet.

 

[Peyton Manning]

the real question is " if a bitcoin falls in the forest, will anyone hear it?"

 

[G.A.P.metal]

i agree with what jeff said ..i think

 

[BigWaveDave]

Looking for a roll of 2014-D bitcoins...

 

[silverdollarbill]

Hello Tnet Friends,

Unless anyone has any specific questions, I think this will be my last post on this thread.

+1 to a bitcoin (BTC) forum on TreasureNet. BTC is basically "virtual gold" and what treasure hunter does not love gold?! In my opinion, having a forum on BTC would be very forward thinking of Tnet and may attract new users. (Lots of tech nerds also love treasure. I am one of them.)

A few things I want to address based on replies:
- In no way am I trying to convince people here to buy bitcoins. (I believe I said that in an earlier post) BTC currently has huge swings and no one knows for sure what will happen. Any money you put into BTC has to be money you are comfortable losing.
- There is a good chance (probably above 50%) that BTC may be worth $0 in the near future. However, beanie babies they are NOT.
- There is also a good chance, that BTC could be worth multiple times what it is today in the near future. (The value of BTC is in the payment network, lack of counterparty risk, and the fact they cannot be inflated)
- Thankfully, the concept of a distributed, fixed amount, crypto-currency is here to stay. (Money is too important to society for it to be monopolized by central bankers/government for their own benefits)
- there are a lot of people trying to make money selling "picks & shovels" during the BTC rush (There is no reason anyone should buy BTC on ebay)

Mining:
- I am definitely NOT an expert in mining
- Unless you have access to free hardware and/or electricity, mining for profit now is challenging (At least this what people much more in touch than I say)
- If you do wind up mining, be sure to join one of the smaller "mining pools". Concentration of mining is a threat to the BTC network
- Many of the BTC-specific hardware providers have huge backlogs. There are people who ordered machines when BTC was $10 and then waited months for their machines to arrive painfully watching as the price exploded

1) No Counterparty Risk
- this is one of the biggest benefits of BTC that I forgot to mention in my previous post: There is no counterparty risk with BTC
- basically, you can be your own bank. There is no risk of a bank run or confiscation by the government
- in modern times, we have forgotten about bank runs, gold confiscation, and totalitarian governments (the last we are closer to than many people think)
- if you think it cannot happen here, look at what just happened in Cyprus. There are also talks of personal wealth confiscation in Europe (Anytime someone says: "That can never happen again.", it basically guarantees that it will)
*If you store your BTC with a third party (exchange, online wallet, etc...there IS counterparty risk)

2) Most of the world does not have access to a stable banking system
- I forget the exact figure, but it is at least half of the world's 7B people do not have access to a stable banking system
- However, even the poorest parts of Africa have access to cell phones, which is all you need for BTC
- BTC could be a complete monetary system (bank, payment network, currency) for the world's poor. (It will also save them from exploitation by the bankers)

Finally to TreasurePirate69 (another great username), if you think my "rant about the Federal Reserve" was the "pot calling the kettle black", then I have not done a good job explaining the key differences between Central Banks/Fiat Currency and The BTC Network/BTC.

For sh@$ts and giggles lets compare USD/Beanie Babies and BTC:

1) Ownership:
- USD/Beanie Babies are both created by one central authority with the exception of counterfeiting which both USD/beanie babies are subject to.
- BTC is not created by any single authority, rather they are created by thousands of individuals who contribute to the BTC network. BTC CANNOT be counterfeited.

2) Value/Medium of Exchange
- Here BTC and Beanie Babies are similar in that the reason they have (or in the case of beanie babies, "had"...lol) value is because people agreed they did and were willing to accept them. However, they are different in that the BTC payment network has huge intrinsic value while beanie babies do not.

- The USD on the other hand is largely accepted globally because we have the most guns. See Economic Nobel Prize winning Paul Krugman's quote: “Fiat money, if you like, is backed by men with guns.” Domestically, it is accepted because competing currencies are illegal and people are afraid of jail. The States used to have their own currencies. Utah recently and symbolically passed a law declaring gold and silver legal tender.

3) Creation Amount
- Here the USD and Beanie Babies are similar. Because both can be created in mass whenever the central authority decides to do so. They are subject to inflation/devaluation. Of course the stock/housing market is up, the Federal Reserve is pumping $80B dollars a month into the system. The "recovery" is a sham and mostly benefits the top 1% while selling out our future generations. For you TNeters under 25, your government has screwed you. If there is anyone I can clearly communicate to how money works and the benefits of BTC, it is you. There is a reason they do not teach you about our current monetary system in school. You are not supposed to know/question it. There is also a reason that the Fed's statements are confusing. It is "doublespeak" specifically designed to confuse you or make you think "man, they are really smart".

- BTC on the other hand has a fixed quantity. There will never be more than 21million BTC in existence and they come into creation at a fixed rate (similar to gold). Currently about 16M of that 21M are in existence. The last BTC will be created in the year 2140. You cannot "print" bitcoins or do fractional reserve lending with BTC

If you are still interested in BTC:
- Remember, BTC can be divided to 8 decimal places so there is no need to shell out $800+ for a whole bitcoin. A mBTC (Milli-BTC) costs $0.81. See: https://bitcoinaverage.com/#USD
- If you want to acquire BTC, you can do so slowly and legitimately by opening a coinbase.com account.
- If you want to learn more about The Fed and Quantitative Easy I recommend this funny video:
- If you are interested in Keynesian vs Austrian economics watch this amazing video (there is also a part II):
(Austrian economists believe in "sound money" which BTC is)

Good Luck Friends,
silverdollarbill

 

[hvacker]

Thanks Silverdollarbill.
If one took an economic class there might be a question "What's money?" And the answer might be "Money is what money does"
Today the Worlds currency is in Nations with there control over how extended or withdrawn the currency is lies with politicians, kings, dictators, czars.

Wherever this currency is headed it is starting to stick. It takes our economic future out of the Fed's hands and puts your resources in yours.
Ya, I might be getting carried away but It's a curious idea.
Just like human confusion with the number of languages there is a similar confusion of currency. Will the Earth in the future have one language and one currency?
As mining bit coin isn't all that different from miners. They bring up brand new wealth from nothing but effort. Some similarity there Que'No!?
So. Ya, I'd like a bit coin forum here.

 

[Peyton Manning]

soooo, how do we feel about bitcoins now?

 

[silverdollarbill]

Lol...nothing has changed. A single exchange only failed. Nothing with the protocol or technology changed. Lol....don't believe the hype. Even after the trouble with Mt Box, bitcoin is back close to $600.

 

[Peyton Manning]

sounded in the news as if they were the big dog

 

[silverdollarbill]

They were the first and up until recently, they were the largest but they have been having issues for months. The guy running it is more incompetent than deceitful. Only people who left their coins on the exchange are in trouble. Anyone who new what they were doing would immediately take them down.

Funny fact: Mt Gox stands for 'Magic the Gathering Online Xchange'. Lol...the platform was originally used to trade magic the gathering cards.

 

[Peyton Manning]

thanks for the info Mr. Bill. I always like to learn

 

[Coldshuz]

For those interested in how to build a relativity cheap bitcoin miner for yourself at home. I learned a lot from the 3 videos this gent has on his website.

http://fredyen.com/

 

[cyberdan]

the real question is " if a bitcoin falls in the forest, will anyone hear it?"

not any more! ROFLMAO