Odds

[ClonedSIM]

You can't compare these two areas.

Ever heard the phrase "apples and oranges?"

Thanlks AF....That tells me a lot...When in the field and you are searching an area 50 feet by 20 feet for gold nuggets you don't know if there is a single nugget within 10 miles of the location. So odds has nothing to do with your search....Art

Remember what I said about 30 posts ago, Art?

"You are purposely mingling previous comparisons with your yard scenario."

Who said searching in the field was just like searching in your yard?

No one but you.

What's funny is, even after reading all of this, you still don't understand what we've been trying to bring to your attention, even though it's been spelled out twenty times.

 

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[aarthrj3811]

What's funny is, even after reading all of this, you still don't understand what we've been trying to bring to your attention, even though it's been spelled out twenty times.

But I do understand and so do you. You will not be able to post your false statement about dowsing. They have all been proven to be completely about words you do not understand…Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

What's funny is, even after reading all of this, you still don't understand what we've been trying to bring to your attention, even though it's been spelled out twenty times.

But I do understand and so do you. You will not be able to post your false statement about dowsing. They have all been proven to be completely about words you do not understand…Art

What don't I understand, Art? Please tell me.

Please tell me what false statements I've made about dowsing.

Also, please include anything you've said about dowsing being false as well.

So, I can also acuse you of making false statements about dowsing! You know why?

Because there are no facts about dowsing that you or I could get wrong! Nothing has been proven about how dowsing works, so everything you've ever said is also false!

 

[Johnny Ringo Silver]

You two are pretty emotional about a stick and a theory!!
Maybe one of you will agree that there is plenty of room for both of you to be wrong and give up on this back and forth crap. I'm sure both of you are good guys with ALOT of pride, but cant you find something else to do in your spare time? Happy hunting boys!! 8) 8)

 

[ClonedSIM]

You two are pretty emotional about a stick and a theory!!
Maybe one of you will agree that there is plenty of room for both of you to be wrong and give up on this back and forth crap. I'm sure both of you are good guys with ALOT of pride, but cant you find something else to do in your spare time? Happy hunting boys!! 8) 8)

You're probably right, but then what else would I do all day while I'm cooped up at work?

 

[Johnny Ringo Silver]

You two are pretty emotional about a stick and a theory!!
Maybe one of you will agree that there is plenty of room for both of you to be wrong and give up on this back and forth crap. I'm sure both of you are good guys with ALOT of pride, but cant you find something else to do in your spare time? Happy hunting boys!! 8) 8)

You're probably right, but then what else would I do all day while I'm cooped up at work?

I understand, though i work outside and due to weather I dont have much to do.

 

[aarthrj3811]

You two are pretty emotional about a stick and a theory!!
Maybe one of you will agree that there is plenty of room for both of you to be wrong and give up on this back and forth crap. I'm sure both of you are good guys with ALOT of pride, but cant you find something else to do in your spare time? Happy hunting boys!!

Thanks for the comments. I am emotional about my hobby. I try to answer everyone’s questions. When people make remarks that are false or pertain to all treasure hunters I will respond. The only thing I can tell you is…..

"For those who don't believe, no amount of evidence is enough. And for those who do believe, no evidence is necessary."

 

[ClonedSIM]

You two are pretty emotional about a stick and a theory!!
Maybe one of you will agree that there is plenty of room for both of you to be wrong and give up on this back and forth crap. I'm sure both of you are good guys with ALOT of pride, but cant you find something else to do in your spare time? Happy hunting boys!!

Thanks for the comments. I am emotional about my hobby. I try to answer everyone’s questions. When people make remarks that are false or pertain to all treasure hunters I will respond. The only thing I can tell you is…..

"For those who don't believe, no amount of evidence is enough. And for those who do believe, no evidence is necessary."

How can any comments about dowsing be false, Art?

Remember: Because there are no facts about dowsing that you or I could get wrong! Nothing has been proven about how dowsing works, so everything you've ever said is also false!

Quit lying to us all about your favorite hobby, Art......

 

[Johnny Ringo Silver]

I think this subject is like religion, with nothing proven and only beliefs.....there is plenty of room to argue!! Good luck getting it all figured out! 8) 8)

 

[aarthrj3811]

Remember: Because there are no facts about dowsing that you or I could get wrong! Nothing has been proven about how dowsing works, so everything you've ever said is also false!

Gee AF…I guess you have not been reading the posts. Objects emit milivolts. Test after test that prove dowsers can locate things. Every question has been proven. The photo’s of finds are impressive. It has been working for 8000 years so that has to prove something. The only thing that we have not proven is what makes the rods turn. Debunkers have proven that they have no idea about dowsing. Just a bunch of words that make no since. …Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

Remember: Because there are no facts about dowsing that you or I could get wrong! Nothing has been proven about how dowsing works, so everything you've ever said is also false!

Gee AF…I guess you have not been reading the posts. Objects emit milivolts. Test after test that prove dowsers can locate things. Every question has been proven. The photo’s of finds are impressive. It has been working for 8000 years so that has to prove something. The only thing that we have not proven is what makes the rods turn. Debunkers have proven that they have no idea about dowsing. Just a bunch of words that make no since. …Art

The only thing that we have not proven is what makes the rods turn.

This is dowsing, Art. Turning rods = Dowsing. You don't know how the rods turn ergo you don't know anything about dowsing.

Can you tell me the one about the Three Little Pigs next?

 

[aarthrj3811]

This is dowsing, Art. Turning rods = Dowsing. You don't know how the rods turn ergo you don't know anything about dowsing.

Hey AF…I just went out and dug my nuggets. That is the most outrages statement you have made…And yes …my rods told me where they were…Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

This is dowsing, Art. Turning rods = Dowsing. You don't know how the rods turn ergo you don't know anything about dowsing.

Hey AF…I just went out and dug my nuggets. That is the most outrages statement you have made…And yes …my rods told me where they were…Art

But you still don't know how it works so any statement anyone, including you, makes about dowsing is inherently false, or can at best be considered conjecture.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Characteristics of pseudoskeptics
While a Professor of Sociology at Eastern Michigan University in 1987, Truzzi gave the following description of pseudoskeptics:
In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis --saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact--he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.[3]
Truzzi attributed the following characteristics to pseudoskeptics:
• The tendency to deny, rather than doubt [4]
• Double standards in the application of criticism [5]
• The making of judgments without full inquiry [6]
• Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate [7]
• Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments[8]
• Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.'[9]
• Presenting insufficient evidence or proof [10]
• Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof [11]
• Making unsubstantiated counter-claims [12]
• Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence [13]
• Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it [

 

[ClonedSIM]

Characteristics of pseudoskeptics
While a Professor of Sociology at Eastern Michigan University in 1987, Truzzi gave the following description of pseudoskeptics:
In science, the burden of proof falls upon the claimant; and the more extraordinary a claim, the heavier is the burden of proof demanded. The true skeptic takes an agnostic position, one that says the claim is not proved rather than disproved. He asserts that the claimant has not borne the burden of proof and that science must continue to build its cognitive map of reality without incorporating the extraordinary claim as a new "fact." Since the true skeptic does not assert a claim, he has no burden to prove anything. He just goes on using the established theories of "conventional science" as usual. But if a critic asserts that there is evidence for disproof, that he has a negative hypothesis --saying, for instance, that a seeming psi result was actually due to an artifact--he is making a claim and therefore also has to bear a burden of proof.[3]
Truzzi attributed the following characteristics to pseudoskeptics:
• The tendency to deny, rather than doubt [4]
• Double standards in the application of criticism [5]
• The making of judgments without full inquiry [6] Dowsing definately found this gold, there's no other reason for it!
• Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate [7] You pseudoskeptics don't understand dowsing, so stay out of it!
• Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments[8]
• Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.'[9] ...Randi....
• Presenting insufficient evidence or proof [10] These pictures show that dowsing works.
• Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof [11]
• Making unsubstantiated counter-claims [12]
• Counter-claims based on plausibility rather than empirical evidence [13] Electricity doesn't travel in that fashion, Art. Well, my outdated Hoo-Doo machine says it does!
• Suggesting that unconvincing evidence is grounds for dismissing it You can't dowse, but that only shows you don't believe it in!

Over half of those charasterictis apply to you, Art.

Maybe you're a Pseudo-Dowser?

Thanks for making my argument easy again, Art.

 

[aarthrj3811]

But you still don't know how it works so any statement anyone, including you, makes about dowsing is inherently false, or can at best be considered conjecture.

Thank AF……

The word guess commonly refers to a conjecture or estimation.

In mathematics, a conjecture is a mathematical statement which appears likely to be true, but has not been formally proven to be true under the rules of mathematical logic. Once a conjecture is formally proven true it is elevated to the status of theorem and may be used afterwards without risk in the construction of other formal mathematical proofs. Until that time, mathematicians may use the conjecture on a provisional basis, but any resulting work is itself conjectural until the underlying conjecture is cleared up.

Estimation is the calculated approximation of a result which is usable even if input data may be incomplete, uncertain, or noisy.

Habitual debunkers are sometimes called pseudoskeptics or pathological skeptics and accused of intentionally relying on pseudoscience masquerading as empirical skepticism

 

[ClonedSIM]

But you still don't know how it works so any statement anyone, including you, makes about dowsing is inherently false, or can at best be considered conjecture.

Thank AF……

You're welcome, Art. It's about time you realized this. I'm just glad to be the one to educate you.

 

[aarthrj3811]

More than once you've been told that a gold-bearing area would give clues to a knowledgeable person on where best to look for that gold. This is where finding gold and guessing using visible clues have been compared.

Gold is one of the rarer elements on earth, which is one of the reasons why gold is so highly valued. Of the total earth's crust, gold makes up less than 0.000005% of it. In other words, if you were to process 500 tons of dirt (1,000,000 pounds) with that concentration of gold and recovery all the gold (which you can never do), you would end up with 0.9 ounces of gold. Obviously, we want to locate for areas of high concentration like mineral deposits…..Real easy…Art

 

[ClonedSIM]

More than once you've been told that a gold-bearing area would give clues to a knowledgeable person on where best to look for that gold. This is where finding gold and guessing using visible clues have been compared.

Gold is one of the rarer elements on earth, which is one of the reasons why gold is so highly valued. Of the total earth's crust, gold makes up less than 0.000005% of it. In other words, if you were to process 500 tons of dirt (1,000,000 pounds) with that concentration of gold and recovery all the gold (which you can never do), you would end up with 0.9 ounces of gold. Obviously, we want to locate for areas of high concentration like mineral deposits…..Real easy…Art

Guess what you didn't just describe, Art?

Your back yard!

Do you see now why I told you that comparing your back yard and a natural environment was useless?

Believe it or now, we skeptics do understand that gold isn't just lying all over the ground to be picked up. We know that you have to find a higher concentration area in order to come up with this gold. But, when you get there do you just start digging the moment you step out of your car, or do you get out and look around for the area most likely to produce gold?

If you say that you do a search and look for the most likely spots, then you are using your intuition and knowledge about gold to locate the gold in that area, not your dowsing.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Believe it or now, we skeptics do understand that gold isn't just lying all over the ground to be picked up. We know that you have to find a higher concentration area in order to come up with this gold. But, when you get there do you just start digging the moment you step out of your car, or do you get out and look around for the area most likely to produce gold?

If you say that you do a search and look for the most likely spots, then you are using your intuition and knowledge about gold to locate the gold in that area, not your dowsing.

Gee AF….I research the area that I am going to. When I get there I look for an area that I can move around in. No…I don’t stop on top of a mountain or in a cliff area. Then I take my rods and walk in a North-South or East-West direction. When the rods cross I mark the spot. I continue to mark spots until I get no more signals or think that I have enough to do that day.

I then go to each of the spots and determine which direction the gold is, then I decide if the signal is worth following. I do this to each signal. I then follow each of the remaining signals to their source. The signal may end under a boulder, in the water, the other side of a fence, on someone’s claim, be to deep, etc.

I dig the ones I can and put them in zip lock bags and mark them. I either go to a stream and pan them or take them home to be processed later.

Yes, I understand how gold is moved and gets to it’s hiding places and I do like to search in small valleys with a stream and vee shaped sides. I don’t like larger sand bars because the gold is usually buried deep.

You should understand that some of these signal can be a mile or farther from where you first find them. There is no way to look and see if it is a likely place for gold to be. It’s not like a park. There are large trees, brush and boulders all over the place…..Art