Oct 27, Waiting for answer on this one.

Hefty1

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Supreme Court should overturn case on river rent, US solicitor general says
StoryDiscussionSupreme Court should overturn case on river rent, US solicitor general says
By MIKE DENNISON IR State Bureau helenair.com | Posted: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 6:30 am |


.The U.S. Justice Department, siding with PPL Montana in the company’s legal battle over whether it must pay rent to Montana on its hydroelectric dams, says the U.S. Supreme Court should overturn a $41 million state court ruling that went against the company.

In legal arguments filed with the nation’s high court last week, the U.S. solicitor general said the Montana Supreme Court erred in 2010 when it declared that the rivers at PPL Montana’s dams are “navigable” and therefore the riverbeds are owned by the state.

The Montana courts didn’t properly analyze the sections of river in question, and should be required to re-examine whether those specific sections are navigable, possibly at a trial, said U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli.

If a river section is found to be navigable when Montana became a state in 1889, then the state owns the riverbed.

Verrilli also suggested that if the proper analysis occurred, the courts might find that sections of rivers underneath 10 Montana dams owned by PPL are not navigable, and therefore the state doesn’t own the riverbed and can’t charge for its use.

“When a discrete and substantial segment is not navigable at statehood, the state does not take title to that segment, whether or not the segment could be portaged,” he wrote.

The federal government’s recent brief is diametrically opposite from its position in May when it weighed in on the side of the state of Montana. The U.S. Justice Department said then that the Montana Supreme Court’s decision doesn’t warrant a U.S. Supreme Court review because its rulings in the case “are largely fact-specific and do not conflict with any decision of this court, another state court of last resort or a federal court of appeals.”

The U.S. Justice Department’s latest brief is one of several filed last week on behalf of PPL. Farm, water-rights and electric power-industry groups, as well as the company itself, also filed arguments, asking the U.S. Supreme Court to overturn the Montana Supreme Court’s decision.

The state of Montana will file its arguments Oct. 27, and the U.S. Supreme Court may listen to oral arguments in the case later this year.

Judy Beck, a spokeswoman for state Attorney General Steve Bullock, said Monday the office is “disappointed and disagrees with the position taken by the solicitor general,” and will address the U.S. government’s and the company’s arguments in its brief next month.

PPL appealed the long-running case to the U.S. Supreme Court last year and the high court agreed in June to hear it.

The case originated with a 2003 lawsuit filed by several parents of Montana schoolchildren and then taken over by the state. The suit argued that the riverbeds under hydroelectric dams are state-owned, school-trust lands and that dam owners must pay compensation for using state property.

PacifiCorp. and Avista Corp., each of which own a hydropower dam in western Montana, settled the case and agreed to annual payments for using the riverbed. PPL, however, chose to fight the issue in court.

State courts ruled against PPL and said the company owed $41 million in use fees from 2000-2007. The judgment has been increasing by 10 percent a year since 2007, but PPL hasn’t paid anything while the court challenge proceeds.

The fees are for 10 dams that PPL owns on the Madison, Missouri and Clark Fork rivers, including five dams near Great Falls, two on the upper Missouri, two on the Madison and one on the Clark Fork at Thompson Falls.

The U.S. solicitor general said the Montana courts didn’t use the proper test when determining whether the rivers at the dams are navigable.

Each distinct section of the river should be examined, he said, rather than declaring that the river on each side of the section in question is generally navigable and therefore the entire bed is owned by the state, he said.

Verrilli also said the state can’t claim that portaging around a lengthy section of the river — such as the 17-mile-long Great Falls stretch of the Missouri, where five of the dams sit — makes that part of the river navigable.

“This court has long considered navigability for (riverbed ownership) on a segment-by-segment basis, because navigation on one part of a river does not necessarily establish that the remainder is navigable for title purposes,” he wrote.


Read more: http://helenair.com/news/state-and-...dcb-11e0-ab63-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1ZbEg14Fq
 

Upvote 0
HUMM??? maybe air will be next?? it seems that with this rottrn ecconomy we have, everyone is looking to tax/charge/scam every penny they can get by any means they can use! but even with all of Her faults,America is still the #1 place to live despit what o and all the other socaled "representatives" has done to us!
 

$1100 PERMIT TO HIGHBANK KALIF IS THE NEW ONE STATE WATER QUALITY BOARD-----A DAY---JOHN. CDFG WEBSITE HAS THE LINK---F'M' ALL-WENT YESTERDAY-DON'T NEED NO STINKN' PERMIT-JOHN
 

Hoser John said:
$1100 PERMIT TO HIGHBANK KALIF IS THE NEW ONE STATE WATER QUALITY BOARD-----A DAY---JOHN. CDFG WEBSITE HAS THE LINK---F'M' ALL-WENT YESTERDAY-DON'T NEED NO STINKN' PERMIT-JOHN

What really got me after reading through that BS again was the "Violating conditions 1 and 2 may result in fines of up to $10,000 for each day " that is a might serious for highbanking.
I guess the days of $1000 CDFG fines for dredging are over. F'M' and F'M' All. >:(
 

Gravel Hog said:
Hoser John said:
$1100 PERMIT TO HIGHBANK KALIF IS THE NEW ONE STATE WATER QUALITY BOARD-----A DAY---JOHN. CDFG WEBSITE HAS THE LINK---F'M' ALL-WENT YESTERDAY-DON'T NEED NO STINKN' PERMIT-JOHN

What really got me after reading through that BS again was the "Violating conditions 1 and 2 may result in fines of up to $10,000 for each day " that is a might serious for highbanking.
I guess the days of $1000 CDFG fines for dredging are over. F'M' and F'M' All. >:(

Ok guys.....I cant seem to find this info :dontknow: Any links you could supply :icon_scratch:
 

Won't be buying any claims or spending my money in Calcrazy. >:(
 

yeah, i can't seem to find it as well
were on DFG site is it posted or could ya post a link
 

On the CDFG dredge Page: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/suctiondredge/

Second section "Which Mining is Not Prohibited..." Follow Link to Water Board Dredge Page and Read First Link Highbanking Facts.

I guess they are out to take it all from we the the mining people.

If things aren't bad enough, the Water Board is also in the process of approving their "Water Quality Management Plan for National Forest System Lands in California"
http://www.waterboards.ca.gov/water_issues/programs/nps/wqmp_forests.shtml
that would pretty much make dredging a thing of the past on National Forest Lands, if it ain't already, won't matter if the CDFG completes the SEIR and the new AB120 Ban is lifted. :'( :'( :'(

Gotta Keep up on this Crapola guys!!!! Come on now. Just keeps getting deeper.
I wantta go back to Alaska and stay this time. I am hating Kalifornia Government and Polotics. >:(
 

Gravel Hog said:
Hoser John said:
$1100 PERMIT TO HIGHBANK KALIF IS THE NEW ONE STATE WATER QUALITY BOARD-----A DAY---JOHN. CDFG WEBSITE HAS THE LINK---F'M' ALL-WENT YESTERDAY-DON'T NEED NO STINKN' PERMIT-JOHN

What really got me after reading through that BS again was the "Violating conditions 1 and 2 may result in fines of up to $10,000 for each day " that is a might serious for highbanking.
I guess the days of $1000 CDFG fines for dredging are over. F'M' and F'M' All. >:(

If you recall,I said,wait till the CEQWA and CESSWI gets attached....we are screwed...it did,and we are.I have the CESSWI manual sitting in front of me as we speak,studieng for the test on Oct 15,for my job....the laws in it are sickening.You will not see construction helping the economy anytime soon.Mark my words
 

Thanks Gravel Hog for the links......

:o excuss me for awhile.... I have to go take a pee in a river.
 

this is absolute BS


When discharging to waters within California’s borders, compliance with both the federal Clean Water Act and the state Porter-Cologne Water Quality Control Act is required in most instances. This includes most federal lands located within California.9 Any person violating these water quality laws may subject that person to fines imposed by the State or Regional Water Boards of up to $10,000 for each day in which the violation occurs plus $10 per gallon of discharge. If the matter is referred to the courts, that court may impose civil fines as high as $25,000 for each day in which the violation occurs.
 

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