OBAMA TELLS BROS: IVE GOT YOUR BACK

[Ammonhotep]

TH,

Actually, Mursi was the Muslim Brotherhood's puppet leader, but that's just splitting hairs.

The Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian military are as far apart as your and my political ideologies.

As for civil war? I still think it's highly unlikely, and I pray that I'm not wrong. There are significant differences between Egypt and other conflicted Muslim nations in the Middle East. First of all, there are only political ideological differences. ~90% of the country is Muslim, and almost all Sunni Muslim. There are no tribal differences (with the notable exception of the peoples of the inner Sinai, and they've been a problem for years). The population is incredibly dense, and people with ideological differences live interspersed. Generally, there is no clear geographic separation between the ideological groups.

Egypt is nothing like Iraq, or Syria, or Libya. Sure, if the Muslim Brotherhood sees itself being excluded from the public sphere, some will go underground. That is the worst case scenario in my mind: a return to the Egypt of the November 1997 attacks. In that case, though, the economy will suffer so much more than it is now that the people themselves will root out the extremists.

The vast majority of Egypt still is moderate and have no interest in fighting. The ~10% who are Christians have no interest in fighting. Of course the "liberals" of the country have no interest in fighting. Only God knows, but I still don't see a civil war. I hope and pray that I'm right.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

TH,

Actually, Mursi was the Muslim Brotherhood's puppet leader, but that's just splitting hairs.

The Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian military are as far apart as your and my political ideologies.

As for civil war? I still think it's highly unlikely, and I pray that I'm not wrong. There are significant differences between Egypt and other conflicted Muslim nations in the Middle East. First of all, there are only political ideological differences. ~90% of the country is Muslim, and almost all Sunni Muslim. There are no tribal differences (with the notable exception of the peoples of the inner Sinai, and they've been a problem for years). The population is incredibly dense, and people with ideological differences live interspersed. Generally, there is no clear geographic separation between the ideological groups.

Egypt is nothing like Iraq, or Syria, or Libya. Sure, if the Muslim Brotherhood sees itself being excluded from the public sphere, some will go underground. That is the worst case scenario in my mind: a return to the Egypt of the November 1997 attacks. In that case, though, the economy will suffer so much more than it is now that the people themselves will root out the extremists.

The vast majority of Egypt still is moderate and have no interest in fighting. The ~10% who are Christians have no interest in fighting. Of course the "liberals" of the country have no interest in fighting. Only God knows, but I still don't see a civil war. I hope and pray that I'm right.

Ammo,

I am not wishing any thing bad, but I am afraid the MB will not give them a choice and it is a fact thousands of soldiers in their army are MB members, they will have ready access to lots of arms. MB is already calling for armed revolt....

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[Ammonhotep]

Hopefully just bluster and show.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Hopefully just bluster and show.

Tuesday, July 9th, 2013
Posted by WorldTribune.com

Muslim Brotherhood calls for revolt; military blame ‘armed terrorist’ for violence

Special to WorldTribune.com CAIRO —

Less than a week after the ousting of the nation’s first Islamist president, the Muslim Brotherhood has called for a revolt in Egypt.

The Brotherhood, including its political wing, Freedom and Justice
Party, called on millions of Muslim followers to attack Egypt’s military and other opponents. In a statement on July 8, the Brotherhood cited the ousting of President Mohammed Morsi as well as the killing of scores of his followers.

Supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi protest as soldiers guard the Republican Guard building in Nasr City, Cairo on July 9. /AP/Khalil Hamra

“It calls on the great Egyptian people to rise up against those who want to steal their revolution with tanks and armored vehicles, even over the dead bodies of the people,” the Brotherhood said.

The Brotherhood warned that Egypt could turn into another Syria, which has undergone more than two years of civil war. The statement appealed to the international community “to intervene to stop further massacres and prevent a new Syria in the Arab world.”

The statement was issued hours after at least 54 people were killed in a violent protest in front of Egypt’s Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo, believed to contain Morsi since he was overthrown in a military coup on July 3. The Brotherhood said Egyptian troops opened fire thousands of followers during dawn prayer on July 8.

“Morsi supporters were praying while the police and army fired live
rounds and tear gas at them,” the Brotherhood said. “This led to around 35 dead and the figure is likely to rise.”

The Brotherhood’s call for a revolt followed that of Islamist insurgents
inside and outside Egypt. Al Qaida was said to have encouraged followers to fight the U.S.-backed military in Egypt.

Officials said the Brotherhood, believed to have up to 20 million
supporters in Egypt, has been operating militias throughout the country.

They said many of them included former soldiers and equipped with weapons that range from firearms to rocket-propelled grenades.

The Egyptian military acknowledged the casualties in front of Republican
Guard headquarters. A military statement said “armed terrorists” stormed the headquarters and one officer was killed.

“We did not attack the protesters,” military spokesman Col. Ahmed Ali
said. “Rather, we were defending a military facility. They moved on us to
provoke our soldiers and create this violent scene.”

http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/07...-military-blame-armed-terrorist-for-violence/


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[pat-tekker-cat]

TH, I don't think the brotherhood needs obamas' backing, they been warring for so long, all they seem to know is hate, killing, and war.
20 million brotherhood against 22 million Egyptians for democracy? I (would like to) think they bluff!

I think you may appreciate this video, Dr. Warner seems to have done his study, and with the new scrolls discovery, even more evidence has been uncovered showing the far reaching extent of The Golden Age of Islam.



Imho, it is good that we remember and review history, so as to not allow it to repeat itself!

 

[Crispin]

TH,

Actually, Mursi was the Muslim Brotherhood's puppet leader, but that's just splitting hairs.

The Muslim Brotherhood and the Egyptian military are as far apart as your and my political ideologies.

As for civil war? I still think it's highly unlikely, and I pray that I'm not wrong. There are significant differences between Egypt and other conflicted Muslim nations in the Middle East. First of all, there are only political ideological differences. ~90% of the country is Muslim, and almost all Sunni Muslim. There are no tribal differences (with the notable exception of the peoples of the inner Sinai, and they've been a problem for years). The population is incredibly dense, and people with ideological differences live interspersed. Generally, there is no clear geographic separation between the ideological groups.

Egypt is nothing like Iraq, or Syria, or Libya. Sure, if the Muslim Brotherhood sees itself being excluded from the public sphere, some will go underground. That is the worst case scenario in my mind: a return to the Egypt of the November 1997 attacks. In that case, though, the economy will suffer so much more than it is now that the people themselves will root out the extremists.

The vast majority of Egypt still is moderate and have no interest in fighting. The ~10% who are Christians have no interest in fighting. Of course the "liberals" of the country have no interest in fighting. Only God knows, but I still don't see a civil war. I hope and pray that I'm right.

Lets not interrupt a good rant against Egypt with facts...you say you are American, lets see your birth certificate..

Ammon...I'm sorry for the rudeness you encounter around here. Take note that there are those of us who do not think that way.

Crispin

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Lets not interrupt a good rant against Egypt with facts...you say you are American, lets see your birth certificate..

Ammon...I'm sorry for the rudeness you encounter around here. Take note that there are those of us who do not think that way.

Crispin

I don't think I was rude to Ammo, it was not my intent. There are many of us who think we need to end a lot of the foreign aid we give away to a lot of the countries especially those with hostile Muslim factions, the aid is used against their civilian population or who burn our flag......

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[jerseyben]

Welcome to the party, friend. Feel free to join the Crispin's Critters thread aka not worried about a Govt takeover.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Off topic posts deleted. Topic is Egypt.

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[Ammonhotep]

TH,

I've noticed trends in your cited sources. That helps me understand why you see Egypt the way you do. I'd suggest a greater breadth of information will aid an understanding of current events in Egypt.

jerseyben,

I think I'm on the list of Crispin's Critters ... I should go back and check it out. There're probably 30 pages of responses since I last read it, though (sorry Crispin).

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

TH,

I've noticed trends in your cited sources. That helps me understand why you see Egypt the way you do. I'd suggest a greater breadth of information will aid an understanding of current events in Egypt.

jerseyben,

I think I'm on the list of Crispin's Critters ... I should go back and check it out. There're probably 30 pages of responses since I last read it, though (sorry Crispin).

Ammo, I have nothing against the average Egyptian people at all, I dated an Egyptian girl, but I do have major problems with the Muslim Brotherhood of which there are millions and millions of Egyptians who belong to it.

Muslim Brotherhood is sworn enemy of America, Osama bin laden was member as are several others and MB supported him as they do other terrorist groups.

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[Crispin]

I don't think I was rude to Ammo, it was not my intent. There are many of us who think we need to end a lot of the foreign aid we give away to a lot of the countries especially those with hostile Muslim factions, the aid is used against their civilian population or who burn our flag......

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TH, I was not referring to you. Several other posts have been down right obnoxious. I was referring to the one that assumed Ammon was from Egypt and possibly the one that suggested making a parking lot out of the Middle East.

All, we do not live in an isolated vacuum. Like it or not, holy war has been brought to our lands. Supporting foreign governments that stabilize high risk areas can always be a double edged sword. However, I would much rather give my taxes to support the Egyptian Military then pay with American lives. If we withdraw within our borders and do not support our Allies then the events of 9/11 will reoccur.

Extreme radicals exist within all countries. The Muslim Brotherhood is an entity and not a government. The events in Egypt directly effect Israel, which in turn, directly effect us. Be not so quick to judge those foreign or different from ourselves. Monetary support and encouraging democracy is an ideal way to lead in this world.

Crispin

 

[Ammonhotep]

The Muslim Brotherhood has changed dramatically over the past 20 years. There are a number of books on the topic.

 

[Bum Luck]

"Before Osama bin Laden formed al Qaeda,

So, you like the Soviets better?

I'm old enough to remember decades of Cold War; horrendous military spending, civil defense drills, Assured Mutual Destruction, Joe McCarthy.............

Unless people have a psychological need to act out a frantic projection, I'd argue that we're better off than we were.

Last I looked, the Muslim Brotherhood had no ICBM nuclear subs. Or aircraft carriers. I won't say the world is a Peachy Place (nor does anyone call me an optimist), but it sure could be worse.

Mursi was supporting and giving power to MB when he was in power. Many of the Egyptian military members are MB. Egypt is headed to a civil war right now with MB and our military aid can easily end up in their hands.

We do not need to be giving any military aid to them...

Mursi is not in power.

The Egyptian military is arresting members of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Civil war is hardly possible since the Egyptian Army is rounding the MB up and will put them in detention camps.

We still need to give the Egyptian Army aid - for the reasons I laid out. We can't abdicate the game. I do not want to lose to the Muslim Brotherhood.

Giving up is not an option.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

CAIRO, July 9 (UPI) -- Scores of militants linked to Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, now locked in an explosive confrontation with the Egyptian army over the ousting of President Mohamed Morsi, a Brotherhood leader, are reported to have moved into the Sinai Peninsula to fight the military.

They're expected to join forces with jihadist groups linked to al-Qaida who have established bases in Sinai's vast desert wastes since 2011 and are already clashing with Egyptian security forces.
This is taking place against a backdrop of mounting bloodshed in Egypt, where the military killed 51 people at a Brotherhood rally in Cairo Monday protesting what's widely seen as a military coup against Morsi, Egypt's first democratically elected president.

But there are wider ramifications. There are concerns the violence sweeping Egypt, the Arab world's most populous nation, could spill over into Israel on Sinai's eastern border, threatening its historic 1979 peace treaty with Egypt.

Israel's military and intelligence services are warily watching developments in Egypt and northern Sinai, where Israeli and Egyptian intelligence believe there are some 2,000 jihadist militants armed with weapons smuggled from Libya and operating with the support of many of the long-neglected 600,000-strong Bedouin tribes scattered across the peninsula.

Islamist militants have launched several attacks on the Jewish state from Sinai since the February 2011 downfall of Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak in a pro-democracy uprising, the event that led to Morsi's June 2012 election.

Former Israeli defense minister Gen. Binyamin Ben-Eliezer warned as Morsi was about to fall that Egypt was on the verge of a civil war.

Most Israeli leaders have said little about events in Egypt, with which Israel fought and won four wars in 1948-49, 1956, 1967 and 1973 to avoid inflaming the issue of the U.S.-brokered peace treaty, which has long been unpopular among Egypt's 82 million people.

But Ben-Eliezer, a close associate of Mubarak who staunchly supported the treaty, observed: "The situation in Egypt has reached a point of no return. It's the beginning of a civil war."
Israel has allowed Egypt to deploy a battalion of tanks on Sinai's border with the Gaza Strip, a Palestinian hotbed ruled by the fundamentalist Hamas movement, to prevent infiltration.

Egyptian forces have also destroyed dozens of underground tunnels between the southern Gaza town of Rafah and Egyptian Sinai, used by Hamas to smuggle in weapons and to infiltrate militants into the increasingly turbulent peninsula that links North Africa with Asia.

Under the peace treaty, Egypt can only deploy small military forces in Sinai, particularly in the eastern zone bordering Israel.

But the Israelis are giving the Egyptian military considerable leeway in moving forces close to Gaza because that increases security in Sinai, the main battleground in all of the Jewish state's wars with Egypt.

As the violence between the army and the Brotherhood, the two main powers in Egypt, continues to grow, the bloodshed's spread from Cairo to the cities of the Nile Delta.

In Sinai, there was a surge of attacks by militants. A soldier was killed early Friday in Rafah and gunmen attacked several army and police bases with rockets and machinegun fire, including the Mediterranean city of El Arish, the regional capital.

There have been persistent reports Morsi's government treated the jihadist groups in Sinai with kid gloves because of their ideological links and their common dream of restoring an Islamist caliphate in the Middle East.

Whatever the validity of those reports, Hamas, a Brotherhood offshoot, has been shaken by Morsi's ouster.

Its anti-Israel hardliners, like the jihadists in Sinai, appear to have been stiffened in their opposition to democratic politics by the toppling of Morsi just over a year after he made political history by becoming Egypt's first freely elected president after decades of sham elections that kept one dictator after another in power with implausibly huge majorities that often ran as high as 95 percent.

Morsi's departure is also a setback for moderate Islamist parties that have been emboldened or come to power because of the so-called Arab Spring, most notably in Tunisia, where longtime dictator Zein al-Abedin Ben Ali was driven out in January 2011.

But it has greatly bolstered jihadists' belief that power can only be achieved through holy war and bloodshed, not through the ballot box. And that may be the true legacy of Morsi's downfall.
Watch Syria.


Muslim Brotherhood militants move into Sinai 'to attack army' - UPI.com​

 

[Bum Luck]

We will see.

But giving up is not an option.