Oak Island Artifacts: Just the Facts

[rowanns]

Dave Rishar posted: "I only get lost when one then draws the conclusion that they crossed the Atlantic. Besides the lack of evidence, the logic doesn't work for me."

Well Dave, Gaspar Corte Real was a Knight of Christ and he was here. His brother Miguel was a Knight as well, but he was lost at sea during a voyage. That's just one example of a historical tie. Of course the biggies so to speak were Vasco de Gama and Henry the Navigator, but they don't really pertain to the discussion here. It is extremely, extremely difficult for me to accept Portuguese discoveries WITHOUT the Knights of Christ. I actually find it impossible.

 

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[Raparee]

It's as though the word "Templar" is referenced and a wall goes up.

It's because people like Dan Brown, Scott Wolters, and a number of 'researchers' here have made a mockery of actual Templar history in order to support their own agendas. They have poisoned the well, and made it difficult for some to distinguish real history from their pseudo history.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Of course the biggies so to speak were Vasco de Gama and Henry the Navigator, but they don't really pertain to the discussion here. It is extremely, extremely difficult for me to accept Portuguese discoveries WITHOUT the Knights of Christ. I actually find it impossible.

Without agreeing or disagreeing with any part of what you stated, is this what's being discussed when Templars are mentioned around here?

 

[Wm the Conqueror]

I do not know who was there exactly but i know somebody was there! There is no public records but the rocks and the trees are all clues! I know George Washington was there!

 

[lokiblossom]

It's because people like Dan Brown, Scott Wolters, and a number of 'researchers' here have made a mockery of actual Templar history in order to support their own agendas. They have poisoned the well, and made it difficult for some to distinguish real history from their pseudo history.

I have to wonder how Dan Brown made a mockery of actual Templar history with his novel.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

Without agreeing or disagreeing with any part of what you stated, is this what's being discussed when Templars are mentioned around here?

Not by me!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

I have to wonder how Dan Brown made a mockery of actual Templar history with his novel.

Cheers, Loki

1. He claimed that the true reason for the Templars mission to Jerusalem was to locate secret documents that traced the 'holy bloodline' of Christ and Mary Magdalene. False.

2. He claimed that the Templar used these documents to strong arm the pope into giving them special privileges and money. False.

3. He claimed that the pope killed the Templars by burning them at the stake and throwing the ashes into Rome's Tiber River. False.

4. He claimed that Roslyn Chapel was built by the Templars. False.

5. He claimed that the Templars created the Priory of Scion to protect the sacred bloodline. False.

etc.
etc.
etc.

 

[NostraDanis]

Doesn't Dan Brown write fictional novels; as in, "This isn't true - I just made it up".
How can someone writing fiction be held accountable for "claiming" something?

 

[Raparee]

Doesn't Dan Brown write fictional novels; as in, "This isn't true - I just made it up".
How can someone writing fiction be held accountable for "claiming" something?

"In 2003, while promoting the novel, Brown was asked in interviews what parts of the history in his novel actually happened. He replied "Absolutely all of it." In a 2003 interview with CNN's Martin Savidge he was again asked how much of the historical background was true. He replied, "99% is true... the background is all true". Asked by Elizabeth Vargas in an ABC News special if the book would have been different if he had written it as non-fiction he replied, "I don't think it would have.""

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Da_Vinci_Code

 

[TheCoinKid]

I, for one, am a fan of Dan Brown, and have read every novel he's written. Quite frankly, he's a great story teller, who embellishes history to fit his literary needs. The books are classified as fiction, and that's just what they are. The fact that he intertwines a plausible interpretation of history with his story line makes his books all that much better. If he actually said what Reparee noted (forgive me, I did not check the link provided), then he's no doubt guilty of shameless self promotion, but not literary fraud. I do not think that he's truly attempting to pass off every description of historical events and places as historical fact.

On a related note, I visited Rosslyn Chapel last fall, and, irrespective of its fictional place in the book, it's a fantastic place with a very rich history. I highly recommend that anyone visiting the Edinburgh area make the short trip.

TCK

 

[NostraDanis]

Thanks, Raparee, I was unaware he had made such claims. I enjoy his work, but never considered it anything but fiction and had never given it any greater thought.

Like TheCoinKid, I suspect his motives for saying such things is $$$ and promotion, but nonetheless, claiming "alternate facts" eliminates one's credibility and damages the actual truth.

 

[Ryano]

Dan Brown may have believed in his research.. it certainly didn't hurt his book sales to act convicted in his beliefs.

We can agree that history is written by the winners and the further back in time we go, the fewer contemporary documents are available to us in the present. Heresies and opposing perspectives get suppressed or discredited by the powerful.

 

[lokiblossom]

1. He claimed that the true reason for the Templars mission to Jerusalem was to locate secret documents that traced the 'holy bloodline' of Christ and Mary Magdalene. False.

2. He claimed that the Templar used these documents to strong arm the pope into giving them special privileges and money. False.

3. He claimed that the pope killed the Templars by burning them at the stake and throwing the ashes into Rome's Tiber River. False.

4. He claimed that Roslyn Chapel was built by the Templars. False.

5. He claimed that the Templars created the Priory of Scion to protect the sacred bloodline. False.

etc.
etc.
etc.

Although it was a fictional novel your statement number one, became true. The original reason for the Templars mission to Jerusalem was to find religious artifacts for the relic hungry Church!

Statement number two is partially true!

Statement number three is similar to what happened only the location has been changed to protect the innocent!

Statement number four is fictional, but the Templars did have a monastery three miles from Roslin Chapel (albeit they left a few years earlier) and it did add to the story line!

Statement number five is certainly (somewhat) true. There is much more to the Priory and Phillip de Cherisey's role than most understand. Jean Cocteau may have been one of the last Grand Master's!

99% true, I doubt it, but more is true than you think. Did Dan Brown at the time know what was true and what was not? That would be my question! And remember, he kind of left us hanging as to the actual location of the Holy Grail, he certainly didn't know it was in Nova Scotia!

In the end it was a fictional novel. When requested by the Church to state such a fact, he refused, most likely to sell more books, right?

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

But isn’t this relic matter a little overdone? We find a piece of the true cross in every old church we go into, and some of the nails that held it together. I would not like to be positive, but I think we have seen as much as a keg of these nails. Then there is the crown of thorns; they have part of one in Sainte Chapelle, in Paris, and part of one also in Notre Dame. And as for bones of St. Denis, I feel certain we have seen enough of them to duplicate him if necessary.

Mark Twain - - The Innocents Abroad, 1869

 

[Honest Samuel]

When is the next season?

 

[Raparee]

Although it was a fictional novel your statement number one, became true. The original reason for the Templars mission to Jerusalem was to find religious artifacts for the relic hungry Church!

The original mission of the order was to protect pilgrims travelling to the holy land. Not to find artifacts.

Statement number two is partially true!

No credible evidence has ever been found that indicates the Templars found any secret documents or artifacts, or ever tried to blackmail a pope, or made their fortunes from such blackmail.

Statement number three is similar to what happened only the location has been changed to protect the innocent!

What few Templars that were burned at the stake were killed at the order of the king of France in France, and not by the pope in Rome. The pope wasn't even in Rome at that point in history. Not even close to being factual.

Statement number four is fictional, but the Templars did have a monastery three miles from Roslin Chapel (albeit they left a few years earlier) and it did add to the story line!

Complete fiction. Over 130 years separates the construction of Roslyn Chapel and the Templar period. This fiction though, doesn't prevent Brown from claiming it as fact.

Statement number five is certainly (somewhat) true. There is much more to the Priory and Phillip de Cherisey's role than most understand. Jean Cocteau may have been one of the last Grand Master's!

The Priory is a 1950's hoax.

Dan Brown is just another in a long line of hucksters peddling woo as fact in order to make a buck.

 

[lokiblossom]

The original mission of the order was to protect pilgrims travelling to the holy land. Not to find artifacts.



No credible evidence has ever been found that indicates the Templars found any secret documents or artifacts,

The first nine Templars were from Troyes, France, all related, most were Cistercian Monks and unless you consider the Count of Champagne a warrior (which he wasn't) none of them were warriors. They were housed in Jerusalem, near the ruins of Solomon's first Temple. Their first stated purpose was to protect pilgrims traveling to the Holy Land, but at the same time there were already thousands of Christian soldiers in and around Jerusalem. Recently, Templar artifacts have been found in the various tunnels and caverns under the Temple Mount, proving they were excavating in the area and for a considerable amount of time.

Could nine non-warriors have protected anybody? It is very doubtful, and what were they looking for under the old Temple? Later, as they became more of a warrior group they were said to have carried part of the True Cross into battle and the so-called Shroud of Turin is supposed to have come from Templar Knights. Were they looking for religious artifacts in Jerusalem during their first 10 years? Of course they were!

Where did they get the idea that artifacts would be found there? In Troyes at the same time a famous Rabbi (perhaps the most famous Rabbi) lived, named Rashi. Most Rabbis of the period believed that the Ark of the Covenant had been hidden in the caverns below the Old Temple, which even the Bible mentions. What would the Church have given for such an item to display in some cathedral? Or, how about Bernard of Clairvaux, the champion of the Templar Order and his own abbey at Clairvaux, near Troyes.

Sorry, but in this case the actual history is wrong, the first few years of the Templar Order was spent in searching for items of importance to the Church. It could logically be claimed that they didn't find anything, and manufactured the few items that they are said to have owned, but it was Solomon's Temple, even Rashi believed that!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

Recently, Templar artifacts have been found in the various tunnels and caverns under the Temple Mount, proving they were excavating in the area and for a considerable amount of time.

That is not proof of excavation. That is proof that some Templar lost some things while wandering around the various tunnels and cave under the Temple Mount. Anything other than that is nothing more than speculation, as attested to by the series of "...were said to...", "...were supposed to have...", and "...believed..." notes in your post. There is no verified account of the Templars finding any artifacts or documents, let alone anything that could be used to blackmail the pope, as Brown claims.

I wonder why the Templars became the victims of this mythology and not any of the other chivalric orders. I mean, the Order of the Holy Sepulchre was charged with defending the holiest place in the Christian world ... we could imagine that they found any number of super secret stuff in there.

 

[lokiblossom]

That is not proof of excavation. That is proof that some Templar lost some things while wandering around the various tunnels and cave under the Temple Mount. Anything other than that is nothing more than speculation, as attested to by the series of "...were said to...", "...were supposed to have...", and "...believed..." notes in your post. There is no verified account of the Templars finding any artifacts or documents, let alone anything that could be used to blackmail the pope, as Brown claims.

I wonder why the Templars became the victims of this mythology and not any of the other chivalric orders. I mean, the Order of the Holy Sepulchre was charged with defending the holiest place in the Christian world ... we could imagine that they found any number of super secret stuff in there.

Where the objects were found was proof of excavation. Nobody could just wonder around in these tunnels. The Templars were charged with finding these artifacts by a relic hungry church. Don't forget, they did carry a part of the True Cross. Also don't forget I have pointing fingers in various paintings as proof!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

‘The Curse Of Oak Island’ Season 5 May Premiere In November 2017"

When is the next season?

"Fans are incessantly on a quest to know if The Curse of Oak Island Season 5 is returning. This proves how the viewers are eager to get any update. Even the finale episode of the earlier season attracted the highest rating."

"Until today, ‘The Curse of Oak Island’ Season 5 will return or not – this doubt not only existed in everyone’s mind but reproduced a plenty of positive and negative rumors. Now it seems the much-awaited reality series will return for the fifth season sooner than later. This is a sort of confirmation comes after the airing of some social media posts, which indicate the filming has taken place during the summer."

"Here is also another good news for the reality series’ avid viewers. We have known Randall Sullivan as an actor of this famous reality show where he plays himself. You will be amazed to know that this renowned American author-cum-journalist has authored a book named ‘The Curse of Oak Island.’ Although the book will reach the retail bookshelves in 2018, it will mainly cover the treasure location (Oak Island), detailed information on some people who had given their endeavor to hunt the treasure including some theories added with the treasure-filled location."

Markus Sep 7, 2017 at 23:33

"Marty and Rick Lagina will be returning for ‘The Curse of Oak Island’ Season 5. As I met Marty in person last month on the Island during the filming of season 5."
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