No Minning in MARIPOSA COUNTY???????????????????????????????????????????? ???????

[Oakview2]

There is a strong rumor that a advisory committee in Mariposa will be requesting at the Supervisors meeting on July 14th, to ban all minning in the county of all types. Their was a item on the June 2 meeting for proposed new regulations, but was withdrawn. This is a common tactic of green groups to gauge opposition, and allows them to come back unopposed. Let all claimholders in the county be put on notice...














Meeting Calendar - Mariposa County, California

 

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[Clay Diggins]

And who best to guide, mentor and offer thar much needed support and funding than the "big boys" in the industry? After all, these law suits effect all miners large and small right? BS! Where have they been for the last umpteen years now. Like them or not, agree with them or not, the various mining groups are the only ones I've seen so far standing up and doing anything to help us out.

Well lets start with the fact that I'm here, donate my valuable time to help educate and enable "small" miners, and provide you with free tools and information to educate yourself. I do this work for free. I make a living working with the "Big Boys" and I can tell you that they have, as individuals, contributed to Brandon's case. If you've taken advantage of all that then I'll say you are welcome - it seemed like the right thing to do.

If you look just a little way past the newsletters and forum BS you will see the powerhouses of mining rights action have been working for you all along.

• American Exploration and Mining Association (renamed from Northwest Mining Association) has been fighting, and winning, cases for all miner's rights since 1895. They win and in the process have preserved and defined many of the rights you rely on today.
• Mountain States Legal Foundation has won many cases that protect and extend miner's rights as well as all users of public lands. They win cases based on law and facts. No drama whatsoever but a great track record for miners rights.
• Pacific Legal Foundation has fought for miner's rights for more than 40 years. They have won 7 Supreme Court cases. You should already know how they have contributed to the dredging cases.

So what do these organizations have in common? Besides being the miner's best friend they actually work together to win important cases.

Minard Run is the most important mining case of this century. It not only reinforced subsurface mineral rights to access across Forest Service managed lands it also stopped the practice of "sue and settle" that was so vigorously used by the greenies to get around the mining and land use laws.

You won't find PLP or WMA as participants in this case, I doubt they even know of or understand the importance of that single mining case. You will find that the three organizations listed above worked together to bring this huge win for miners. These are the "Big Boys" and they continue to do more for miners than all the left coast groups you can name put together.

PLP in almost 20 years has never won a case, neither has WMA or Jefferson or any other of the groups touted as your "go to" groups for mining. That may change soon due to the efforts of one competent lawyer, Mr James Buchal. Collectively the three "Big Boy" groups listed above have dozens of experienced lawyers who have proven their abilities in case after case, year after year.

You can put your money and support where you like but you should be aware that a good portion of the money donated to those three organization that consistently bring in the win comes from mining companies. The Big Boys have your back whether you were aware of it or not. Claiming they have done nothing for you is just your own perception caused by not looking anywhere beyond those few organizations fighting for donations on mining forums.

Educate yourself and prosper!

Heavy Pans

 

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[fowledup]

I respect and appreciate what you offer, what you've done and how you contribute, I've benefited from it myself on many occasion, wasn't thinking of you in my comments but I can see where youi'd take it that way based on your involvement with the big boys, sorry if I've offended. I'm saying it's getting tiresome hearing over and over from whoever (at times myself included) how screwed up our organizations are. I know many of these folks and believe me they didn't choose this life, most would be more than content to be out in the boonies left alone sucking rocks. I'm asking that we cut them some slack. However this turns out in the end financially and otherwise I will be ok, I know a few who won't be able to say that, hell they can't say it now. As to big minings commitment I stand by what I said in comparison they are severly lacking in the support for their fellow miner. Like you said the folks that work for the Big Boys donate quite regularly. I've had that very conversation with a geologist friend of mine that works in the industry who told me he sends money all the time, I wont say what he said as to his thoughts on why his employers didn't. The three groups you listed I don't consider as being part of the big mining community I'm referring to. They are all outstanding mining advocates of their own accord that I support as often as I can as well, the folks I'm refering to are the ones that don't need my money or involvement to fight these lunatics. Im speaking of those that have legal folks on staff, flush war chests, and political muscle to match. That's what we need now, it's beyond common sense and a right and just argument in the courtroom- none of this is being resoved in the courtroom and hasn't been in awhile. As we've seen being right and present in a court of law means little when you don't have the political muscle standing behind you.

Trying desperatly to educate myself so I can prosper.

 

[Clay Diggins]

I respect and appreciate what you offer, what you've done and how you contribute, I've benefited from it myself on many occasion, wasn't thinking of you in my comments but I can see where youi'd take it that way based on your involvement with the big boys, sorry if I've offended. I'm saying it's getting tiresome hearing over and over from whoever (at times myself included) how screwed up our organizations are. I know many of these folks and believe me they didn't choose this life, most would be more than content to be out in the boonies left alone sucking rocks. I'm asking that we cut them some slack. However this turns out in the end financially and otherwise I will be ok, I know a few who won't be able to say that, hell they can't say it now. As to big minings commitment I stand by what I said in comparison they are severly lacking in the support for their fellow miner. Like you said the folks that work for the Big Boys donate quite regularly. I've had that very conversation with a geologist friend of mine that works in the industry who told me he sends money all the time, I wont say what he said as to his thoughts on why his employers didn't. The three groups you listed I don't consider as being part of the big mining community I'm referring to. They are all outstanding mining advocates of their own accord that I support as often as I can as well, the folks I'm refering to are the ones that don't need my money or involvement to fight these lunatics. Im speaking of those that have legal folks on staff, flush war chests, and political muscle to match. That's what we need now, it's beyond common sense and a right and just argument in the courtroom- none of this is being resoved in the courtroom and hasn't been in awhile. As we've seen being right and present in a court of law means little when you don't have the political muscle standing behind you.

Trying desperatly to educate myself so I can prosper.

Those Big Boy miners would help with the consolidated cases if there wasn't so much BS thrown on top. They have a vested interest in seeing mining law upheld in the courts.

The "takings" cases are nonsense and nobody in the industry wants to be associated with silliness like that. Bring a good strong case based on the law and you will get support. Pile up paytriot myth and internet lawyer crap like takings on an unperfected claim and they will avoid you like the plague. The fact that they do have "legal folks on staff, flush war chests, and political muscle to match" is the same reason they won't touch those cases. They like to win and they have the knowledge to avoid losses.

It's really that simple. Bring a case like Rhinehart based on principles of law and you will get support. Throw a pile of already losing legal theories at the court and you are on your own. The simple fact is if it wasn't for Brandons's brave defense the consolidated cases would amount to nothing more than internet grumbling about crooked judges and a lack of justice. I think that's becoming obvious even to it's few supporters, it's been obvious to the Big Boys from day one.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Here's a partial list of mining corporations supporting the American Exploration and Mining Association. I was asked to post this by a client who is on this list. You aren't being ignored by the Big Boys, they donate millions each year to these organizations.

You will see the list of supporters include the largest mining companies in the world as well as small miners and groups like the Waldo Mining District in Oregon and the ICMJ.

Heavy Pans

 

[fowledup]

Those Big Boy miners would help with the consolidated cases if there wasn't so much BS thrown on top. They have a vested interest in seeing mining law upheld in the courts.

The "takings" cases are nonsense and nobody in the industry wants to be associated with silliness like that. Bring a good strong case based on the law and you will get support. Pile up paytriot myth and internet lawyer crap like takings on an unperfected claim and they will avoid you like the plague. The fact that they do have "legal folks on staff, flush war chests, and political muscle to match" is the same reason they won't touch those cases. They like to win and they have the knowledge to avoid losses.

It's really that simple. Bring a case like Rhinehart based on principles of law and you will get support. Throw a pile of already losing legal theories at the court and you are on your own. The simple fact is if it wasn't for Brandons's brave defense the consolidated cases would amount to nothing more than internet grumbling about crooked judges and a lack of justice. I think that's becoming obvious even to it's few supporters, it's been obvious to the Big Boys from day one.

Heavy Pans

Excellent, this is the kind of discussion that educates us. Your points to me are perfect examples in my opinion of why it is in their best interest if we are doing such a poor job to join in from the front of the line not behind the scenes. Eventually it will effect them just as badly. What happens when California sets the precedence on regulating how a miner is allowed to mine his claim, economic feasibility be damned? Or.... when they outlaw one recovery method what's to stop them from adding the rest to the list. Heck they won't have to go to court to do it, they'll be able to do that in house unchecked. That should be important to everyone related to mining not just us gold chasers. Part of me thinks maybe they are letting things run their course and will fight them on their own once we are out of the picture. Again thank you for indulging my hot headedness, I always learn or come away with twice as much as I expected to from our discussions.

 

[fowledup]

More internet law food for thought. I was listening to a discussion today on the Supreme Courts recent decision, one that in a odd way has a connection to our cause. We all know what decision I'm refering to and that part of it has no bearing on my comment or need for discussion here. That being said, the discussion pointed to the fact that the supreme court basically said that regardless of what a state and it's populace wanted, or if the state and it's populace felt they would or would not suffer injury they had to abide by the courts ruling and uphold the law. Kind of applies to us doesn't it?

 

[Hefty1]

they had to abide by the courts ruling and uphold the law.


Yea...for about 5 minutes

 

[Oakview2]

As I said before, it was withdrawn, it will be back on the agenda, the supervisor Smallcombe is also on the board of Merg. They are well versed in enviormental suits, they are connected to other more visible green groups, and they have a long history of activisim. I doubt this is going away, common for these groups to float something out, and then pull it to gauge opposition. If

mariposa.org/merg-directors.html

History -MERG Mariposans for the Environment and Responsible Government for Mariposa County and Yosemite National Park

One of their accomplishments is a grant to use the Clean Water Act to ammend the 1872 Minning Law. Can they do it, probably not, will they try absolutely.

 

[Hoser John]

Thanx for updates and warning as have friends with claims and fighting the Forest Circus, BLM for years trying to keep and maintain my old claims above Briceburg. John

 

[Clay Diggins]

Thanx for updates and warning as have friends with claims and fighting the Forest Circus, BLM for years trying to keep and maintain my old claims above Briceburg. John

John this has nothing to do with Forest Service, BLM or mining claims. It's strictly an issue with private land within the county.

Heavy Pans

 

[Hoser John]

THAT is even MUCH worse sic sic sic-John

 

[goldenIrishman]

I have to agree with John. It's MUCH worse when one group of people tries to tell another what they can and can't do on their own property. What comes next? Telling us how many or what type of pets we can have or telling us what color we HAVE TO paint our home. Between HOAs, POAs, we have enough people trying to control what we can do with/to/on our own PRIVATE PROPERTY. I will never buy land that comes with a HOA or POA attached because I will not allow others to dictate to me what I can and can't do on my own property. If others want to allow people to run their lives that is their decision and I wish them luck with that, but I for one will never allow some group of idiots to do that to me. This is supposed to be the land of the free but it seems that others are always more than willing to try to force their will on us. I've seen how HOAs and POAs work thanks to my sister and her husband and it's nothing more than a few trying to tell others what is best for them, even if they're so wrong it isn't funny.

 

[Hefty1]

I have to agree with John. It's MUCH worse when one group of people tries to tell another what they can and can't do on their own property. What comes next? Telling us how many or what type of pets we can have or telling us what color we HAVE TO paint our home. Between HOAs, POAs, we have enough people trying to control what we can do with/to/on our own PRIVATE PROPERTY. I will never buy land that comes with a HOA or POA attached because I will not allow others to dictate to me what I can and can't do on my own property. If others want to allow people to run their lives that is their decision and I wish them luck with that, but I for one will never allow some group of idiots to do that to me. This is supposed to be the land of the free but it seems that others are always more than willing to try to force their will on us. I've seen how HOAs and POAs work thanks to my sister and her husband and it's nothing more than a few trying to tell others what is best for them, even if they're so wrong it isn't funny.

And that is one of the main reasons why I walked, literally, from my home in the city of Suckramento.

 

[Hoser John]

Suckapimento wow not a nice place to live. Grandson and wife in Cameron Park have lost 2 cars and mugged in 2 different cities now and moved 4 times all over. They keep moving farther up the hills trying just to live as both computer home based biz. Glad ya fled-John

 

[Oakview2]

Back on the Agenda, July 14th meeting, Merg Board member and Supervisor Smallcombe leading the charge...


1.
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style]Planning [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][FONT=Bookman Old Style,Bookman Old Style][/FONT][/FONT]Discussion and Direction Regarding Continued Processing of the Project on Mining Permitting Policies and Regulations

 

[Simon1]

Another one of those, what is the saying, " Cut off your nose to spite your face " ?

 

[Hoser John]

LOWER man lower

 

[fowledup]

 

[Oakview2]

She has deleted my cordial and truthful posts and those of others on her facebook page. Apparently opposing views are off limits, and she did not wish to answer the questions of a obivious conflict of interest of the MERG proposal, her position as a MERG board of director, or MERG stance of soliciting grants to explore ways to defeat the 1872 Mining Laws by using the Clean Water Act. This is paraphrased, from their website. Shame, shame on her.

 

[fowledup]

Keep up the pressure! If she won't recuse herself, recall her arse!