Newbie; needing help identifying

[Nickcaragwa]

Thank you to everyone who has recently chimed in, bigcypress hunter don't worry about posting your opinion of the authenticity of the coin, as I mentioned before I am happy to have heard it.

I am in Philadelphia for a wedding but will be home on Tuesday and can post some more photos of the edges of this coin or any other photos that anyone is interested in.

I will also be able to post some photos of the other coins from the same "batch" when I get home.

Thanks again,

-Nick

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Even though it looks very worn, here are some other (circled) areas that concern me.

Thanks, it would be great to see another. Keep in mind that even the experts can make mistakes. I held on to a cob for years that coin dealers told me was a cast fake and I didnt know any better at the time. It turned out to be authentic. There were several TN members that swore it was not real. Much has been deleted over the years from this old post as some members leave. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,48541.0.html

 

[Nickcaragwa]

Thanks for sharing the link and the story. I did send photos/background to Sedwick Coin so I will be curious to see their opinion of the piece.

 

[Mackaydon]

Nick:
You first asked for an explanation of the mark in the cross. It is a countermark in the image of a sun coming up over mountains (volcanoes). You can then position the mark properly. The mark's history is that it was part of the coat of arms of a city called Antigua. That city was destroyed by earthquake and on its ashes was built the current city of Guatemala City, who kept that symbol as part of their city's coat of arms. Clearer examples of this countermark actually show the three volcanoes in the area.
Don.....

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi Nickcaragwa, my first impression was it's too shinny, the edges don't look right.
I agree with bigcypresshunter, it's some sort of copy, of concern is the copper colour on
the lower tip of the coin? have you weighed the coin?
Most import, if your happy with the coin that's all that matters.
Ossy

 

[Nickcaragwa]

I thought I would let everyone know that I emailed photos of the coin to Sedwick Coin yesterday and Dan Sedwick has promptly replied and has said that the coin is a "crude fake". So it sounds like that answers the question for me, sadly.

When I get home on Tuesday I am still going to post photos of the other "cobs" from the batch in hopes this may be the only bad one. I will send the photos to Sedwick Coin as well for their opinion.

Thanks again everyone for the comments/help.

-Nick

 

[divewrecks]

Nick, I thank you for posting the coin here and being open-minded to everyone's scrutiny. I look forward to seeing your other coins posted here. You mentioned in an earlier post how it would be strange for someone to make a wide variety of totally different coin reproductions. Someone out to make a quick buck obviously wouldn't go to that much trouble, so my guess would be that you probably still have some authentic coins in your acquisition. Although Sedwick used the term "crude fake" there were certainly a few die cutters of the day who turned out less than desirable workmanship. To say that some of their workmanship was "crude" might be considered a compliment. Like Don related in an earlier response, many of the "export" coins barely saw the light of day before being melted down and re-coined.

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought I would let everyone know that I emailed photos of the coin to Sedwick Coin yesterday and Dan Sedwick has promptly replied and has said that the coin is a "crude fake". So it sounds like that answers the question for me, sadly.

-Nick

Thats why I said it was ugly. It just jumped out at me as an obvious counterfeit. I didnt want to push the issue because I am certainly not an expert and have much to learn about cobs. TN is a constant learning process for me. If its oK I would like to save this cob picture in my files. The same mold is often used again and this one may show up somewhere down the road. Its very possible your dealer was also a victim and the others may be genuine. I have found that most coin dealers do not know cobs.

Thanks for posting and being open minded to this situation. 8)

 

[Nickcaragwa]

Bigcypress please do save the image, I'd like anyone potentially buying a copy to be warned so the more images of known fakes the better.

Stan thank you also for your comments.

I will keep this post updated with photos of the others from the same dealer when I get back home and I look forward to the feedback after I have posted them.

-Nick

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I don't know why the piece would have a reproduced counterstamp if it wasn't modern made. Could it be possible that the piece was a period forgery?

Stan

I found this post from "Ask Mark Parker" of Western & Eastern Treasures saved in my files on replicas, counterfeits, and suspected fakes. It talks about the Guatemalan countermark. Scroll down. http://www.treasurenet.com/treasures/askmarkparker/200406.htm

"Counterfeits abound. Some are modern copies, while others are contemporary pieces, as old as the coins they imitate. As for the Guatemalan countermark, it is known on counterfeits made around the time of the genuine coins." quote Mark Parker.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I need to keep bumping this post into the top 6. Here is a recent sale on eBay showing the Guatemaulan countermark. I wish I could see the mark better. Im not commenting on the coin.Nice waves. It sold for $126. The seller is in Guatemaula with a 100% feedback rating. http://cgi.ebay.com.sg/GUATEMALA-CO...QQcategoryZ537QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

OK I see the "sun over the mountains" on this countermark now but even the countermark on your coin is crude and suspect (middle) IMO.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here are some silver fantasy cobs in my files that appear to have the same Guatamala countermark.

 

[Nickcaragwa]

Bigcypress that's some interesting information and photos that you posted, and yes, when you compare the real countermark to the one on my coin you can see how crude mine really is.

Thanks once again.

Nick

 

[divewrecks]

Here are some silver fantasy cobs in my files that appear to have the same Guatamala countermark.

Yeah, its not too hard to tell that 1687 coin is a casting.

Stan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here are some silver fantasy cobs in my files that appear to have the same Guatamala countermark.

Yeah, its not too hard to tell that 1687 coin is a casting.

Stan

Yep. The countermarks are decent though.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought I would let everyone know that I emailed photos of the coin to Sedwick Coin yesterday and Dan Sedwick has promptly replied and has said that the coin is a "crude fake". So it sounds like that answers the question for me, sadly.

When I get home on Tuesday I am still going to post photos of the other "cobs" from the batch in hopes this may be the only bad one. I will send the photos to Sedwick Coin as well for their opinion.

Thanks again everyone for the comments/help.

-Nick

I would sure like to see a few other pictures from this batch.

 

[Nickcaragwa]

BigCypress

Here are a few photos of the others from the batch. Just got home tonight from another long trip to Central America (had an interesting experience with a 7.1 earthquake this morning). These have been in a safe in Central America along with about another 500 minted silver coins that I just brought home.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

BigCypress

Here are a few photos of the others from the batch. Just got home tonight from another long trip to Central America (had an interesting experience with a 7.1 earthquake this morning). These have been in a safe in Central America along with about another 500 minted silver coins that I just brought home.

My first impression is that they look better. I will try to study them. The second pic is a little blurry. Thanks for sharing.

Bottom row, fourth from left, looks suspect. Lions and castles are funky. I hope Im indicating the right cob. It doesnt fit my screen.

Top right seems to be missing a lion or castle. Need a clearer pic of the cross sides.

 

[Nickcaragwa]

BigCypress I will break out the macro lens and take some better shots tomorrow.