New Clay Worst Interview. I think it's awesome!

[Idahodutch]

Idahodutch,

Not sure if you recall this or not but in Sims Ely's book, The Lost Dutchman Mine, there is a chapter that tells of Julia and Rhinehart taking Christmas dinner (1890) out to Waltz homestead.
After the dinner Waltz, Julia and Rhinehart sat outside on chairs and Waltz pointed over to the east and said, "My mine is over there in those Salt River Mountains." From Waltz homestead you can see the Superstitions which were once called the Salt River Mountains.

According to Ely who got this information from Julua, it was the first time Waltz opened up about his mine and told some stories / direction / clues.

No one can say for certain exactly what Waltz told Julia and Rhinehart that day.

Matthew,
It was around 1978 when I marked up a topo map and came up with spots that looked possible.
(The marking up of the map, happened at the library, same time as gathering info).
I did use additional information gleaned from skimming books. I had a week off work, so decided to spend it at the Phoenix public library. I went through every book I could find looking for directional clues, or clues about unique features. Things that might help eliminate areas.

I didn’t keep track of books i went through, nor a list of the unavailable books. I honestly don’t recall much detail from the book skimming, other than I was able to narrow down to sections that maybe could house the LDM features, but still be aligned with the monumented trail from Bick’s.

The Christmas dinner does sound familiar, though I don’t remember from where.
No telling what all was talked about 🤓 …
Thank you for posting the info. 👍😁

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[Ramiro valdez]

Ok! Well! I been following this read and it’s interesting! I find that some of you are really trying to communicate in hopes of defining the clues that may get you closer to the LDM. The discussion has gotten a little bit heated at times, but that is understandable and base on the divisional circumstances that have been created I cannot fault anyone for believing what they believe. Each one of you have a common sense reason as to why you only believe in certain clues. This whole confusion was created by Jacob Waltz, but not intentionally. See, when someone wants to be secretive about letting go a secret? He has to be selective as to who and sometimes he has to cipher the information given to the individual or individuals. He chose one particular group of friends. As in this case you have chosen to discuss your personal differences amongst the group. If you divide and go your own way it will certainly be a rough experience and the odds of you ending up at a dead end will be very high. But, if you understand the concept of working together then the road to success will come to you much faster. With this in mind, I hope you understand that Jacob Waltz chose a group of individuals whom displayed a certain friendship with each other. Based on his condition he gave out many clues at different times to whom ever was present at the time he chose to give out his clues. When he was in better health he would point or mention something pertaining to the hidden mine that you would have to decipher to understand what he ment. For example in those salt river mountains is where my mine is located. The word ( those) is a division of two salt river mountain ranges. You have to define which one? And if your right then you have narrowed it down to the mountain range. But the biggest problem for everyone started at the very beginning. The group of individuals got confused and divided. I can assure you that what ever Waltz said is true and whatever the individual said he or she heard is true. He or she may have not remember all the information while trying to picture what a waltz was saying. That is understandable and common sense. As some of you have pointed out, non of them are at fault for not remembering everything. Because then someone is going to point a finger at you for not remembering what Waltz actually did and why he did it that way amongst the group. He didn’t do it to dived them. He did it to unite them. Every clue he gave out and every clue that was heard amongst the group is true. Every one got a piece of the trail pie that leads to the goldmine. If you try to dived the clues you will miserably. All the clues lined up in the proper order will take you there. From know on when you read a clue try to remember a song that say “ I’ll take you there! “ to stay focused. I can prove my point, but I won’t take you there. I can direct you to it, but is not going to help because you have to define the clues your self to believe. Do not doubt any of the clues to not be true and do not pay attention to how someone has written them. Just try to piece them all together in order in order to find the truth. I can believe I’m doing this at this time of night and I ask myself for what? Which one of you managed to drag me into this? Good night!



And PS ( try to hurry to get there cause the state or government is helping the roads get closer to the mine. At the moment there winning the battle in getting there first. think about the unrecorded old Spaniard fort that once stood high above the mountain top over looking the mine to the east. ) I just don’t want you to say I didn’t try to help.

 

[Ramiro valdez]

The first problem to the many who reject the truth is going to be History of the Spaniards who occupied the mountain top and their story of how they tried to dig into the canyon wall in search of the vein in order to mine the necessary gold to take back to Spain in a short amount of time. The second one is the Jesuit priest that was with them who drew a cipher map of the mountain top that describes the area of their location on the mountain and the trail that lead to the goldmine. The next is the Peralta’s stone map that not only points, but directs you to cross the Salt River crossing that faces towards the north away from the superstitious mountains. The needle points like a compass towards the northeast and the three tree pines define a waterhole located about 90 miles towards the northwest which ciphers the number of miles you have to travel towards the northeast to locate the mine. The stone map also outlines the three square miles where you will find the rock horse located on the east side of the Sierra Ancha mountain range. Jacob Waltz becomes your next problem because he took position at the same Salt River crossing that faces north on the Salt River valley cutting the time need to reach the goldmine in half. That’s the reason you never caught him. All his clues lead to the same place which stands to reason why your having such a hard time with the superstitious mountains. But that’s not all because he revives the Spaniard historical story by telling you where the fort once was as a marker in searching for the lost goldmine which defines the exact location of their fort. The Spaniards never made it out of the area alive, except for the priest. Waltz ‘s clues talks about traveling northeast to reach the top of the Sierra Ancha mountain where you could locate the highest saddle in the area which over looks the Valley, needle, four peaks and so on. He would personally climb to the saddle in order to spy on the rock horse located on the eastern summit of the mountain range. He would then climb down below the saddle onto a look out where he would wait hours until he was sure it was safe because he was by himself. The instructions to the trail he gave to his friends had nothing to do with climbing up to the saddle. He gave them the original instructions that Peralta gave him which was to follow a trail that led them over the southern part of the range into a gorge. Instructions given by Waltz were based on his clues. The trail started at the Salt River crossing headed northeast towards the first waterhole. Then to the second waterhole which was next to the military trail that went north passing through a farm and a mile further he would exit the trail cause it took a turn towards the south. At that point he would continue towards the east in the direction of Aztec Peak. As he came down the mountain range he would run into a gorge. After crossing the gorge he would enter the rock horse area where he would climb up to a lofty ridge trail ( that is made up of rock cause your traveling on top of a ridge ) for a 1/4 of a mile angling towards the north. The right side of the ridge top contained a large reddish hill that resembles a sombrero. Once he got passed the edge of the sombrero he would take a right turn entering the head of the rock horse area that led down into narrow canyon towards the north filled with scattered trees of different kinds. As my granddaughter would say “it is spooky”. At the end of the narrow canyon you will find the so called tributary smaller canyons. Choose the one on the northwest side which will take you a few hundred feet towards the hidden canyon entrances. There will be two incline funnel shaped access entry points into the hidden canyon, which is not a very large canyon but considerably dark without sunlight. The second or last funnel towards the north hides the goldmine. You won’t be able to enter the hidden canyon through the last funnel because it’s is too steep of an entry You could look into the funnel, to spy like Jacob did when he shot all those Indians, but then you have to choose to climb the wall from the bottom up or the top down. You won’t be able to see the entrance of the goldmine from any direction until you circle the northern side of the ledge and look up. There is an entry point to the ledge so be careful! There are more problems for those who refuse to except the truth because the second stone called the priest stone carries Templar ciphered navigational directions where the priest points to the same location and gives the sea level altitude and description of the two funnel shape entry points. The other half and the rest of the stones describe a story belonging to a group that came from Virginia. Who were called upon by the priest in hopes of helping the natives defend their lands which contained goldmines during the revolution. This group disappeared like the Spaniards by the hand of the northern Apache. Don’t fight the truth cause there is more truth against you that you haven’t heard. This talk is geared more towards those who are unprepared and don’t know any thing about mining but insist on finding the location of the goldmine. It is not going to protect you from accidentally dying? It’s just good to know you were going in the right direction. Those who love mining will die happy even if they don’t find the goldmine because they love what they do. So I don’t worry too much about them. But know! My momma is calling and I need to go take care of other things that need mending too. So I bit you good luck! On your quest! My friends! Until then count me out! ................ ... ...

 

[ApacheGold]

The article even links back to us here on TreasureNet!

I really enjoyed it and hope you all do as well.

Great article really enjoyed reading it. Wonder where that rough part in trail was that Brownie told Clay about. Interesting stuff to say the least.

 

[Blindbowman]

it looks like a way to get money from you because the man was not able to locate the mine himself after over 50 years . i am 63 and i started reading about the mine at the age of 7 in 1967 ,i refuse to pay $3.00 to get clues for i mine i already found .. it's just foolishness ... sorry Clay if the clues were that great you would have found the mine ...like i did . and i will give you a clue to prove what i am saying . they could not have put the bodies in the shaft , outright impossible .

 

[markmar]

it looks like a way to get money from you because the man was not able to locate the mine himself after over 50 years . i am 63 and i started reading about the mine at the age of 7 in 1967 ,i refuse to pay $3.00 to get clues for i mine i already found .. it's just foolishness ... sorry Clay if the clues were that great you would have found the mine ...like i did . and i will give you a clue to prove what i am saying . they could not have put the bodies in the shaft , outright impossible .

First, nothing it's impossible, even if it never happened.
Second, in the beginning of the article, the writer wrote: " At 93, Clay Worst is the last living connection to those who claimed to know its location.". So your statement how Clay was not ablle to locate the mine, it's without proof, just your fantastic assumtion.
And third, you found nothing in regards to the LDM or another treasure in those mountains. If you are searching for fame, go at the top of Everest.

 

[Blindbowman]

you know what happen when everything went right on expedition 3 . i circled weaver's needle 15 times from the base of the needle out to a distances of 5 miles ,it took me 8 days ..! alone and i saw a group of old hikers on day 3 ... no one else was out there ...try that some day . my $400 mountaineering gear pack took a beaten . and i had to fly home i could not even stand up when i left .. if i could get there i would gladly tell Clay or wayne where the mine is and be done with all of this .. but i know how to find the mine and you have to have someone show you where it is . you will never believe where it is .. no one would .. tell you have seen it .. and showing someone where it is , that's why no one has found it other than me . it is that well hidden .. it's not on any trial . its not where anyone would look for it or gold .. you can hike yourself to death and never know where it is or that you walked right past it ...i understand what your saying . but i tell you truthfully and being honest with you . a few million people could go out there and search and still never come with in 60 ft of it and they still would never know it was there ..

 

[Blindbowman]

the mine is a vertical shaft 12 -14ft deep it is covered over and is almost impossible to see it , i matches the area it is in .. you can stand and look right at it and unless someone points it out to you ,you will never know it is there . if you even could get close to it .. Waltz out did himself when he hide the mine . he knew people would hunt for it .. even if he gave them clues they could never have found the mine without him showing them where it was .. he knew that .. that's why he wanted to go and show julia where it was .... i am very please to see Clay still trying to add to the legend what he still can .. stay safe stay free

 

[markmar]

It's not me who is spreading BS here. Just look at your posts. Live your immortal life without strong drugs and much weed.
When you will be ready to go back to your planet, please let us know where the LDM is. Don't worry about the war upon the mine, because nobody will believe you. You fooled them once, when you were mortal.

 

[releventchair]

don't you pull your BS here ,i love clay like a father and i full respect who and what he has done with his life and why , some of you come here with no other reason than to troll the site , grow up ! i could be here till my death and never tell you a signal fact, but the fact is where thousands have failed i did not . i found the mine and i am lol at people like you . for being so childish ...i am not here to play games i don't want the legend to end in a big Gold rush where thousands get killed for gold the legend has had enough deaths so far , I will say it so your little brain can understand clearly what i just said , " ( there is no possible way two people can take a dead human body and put it in that shaft , ) out right fact !" if you have never seen the mine before you may think the way you do, but you can not left a normal size human body over your head to a heath of 9 ft tall , as i said it is impossible to do that .. Waltz dragged the nephews body down the canyon to hide it because he could not do the same thing .. if you and i tried to put a body in that shaft it would take days ! and 4 or 5 people to complete ... the opening to the mine is up above you by 9 ft ! straight up . you can't do it . i could not do it . no one could . fact ! i am not like the rest of you . i never had to go out there and search for years , i was not looking for the mine . i just found it by accident, i covered over 40 miles a day when i was there , i searched full areas and grid pattern the areas i was looking . i found the Hoya and it was under 24 ft of rock .. i am not looking for fame or greed .. sorry i will leave that for other people .. i would love to get the chance to meet Clay . i, i even tried to give the mine's location to clay .. but i could never reach terms with Wayne .. he is about the only one i trust at this point and if you had people follow you out there and shot at you and come to your home and scare your girlfriend you would do the same thing i do . i hate to tell you this but telling anyone where the mine is , can be even more dangerous that knowing where it is .. i had 3 or 4 stalker for 4 years , i took photos of 3 people watching from the peaks following me , i posted those pictures here . i do believe i have the largest high speed film pictures ever taken of the mountains ,over 700 photos , i was a photographer they are not your campsite Kodak family photos , they 3 degree sequences 45 shot pattern ..not just a random shot of a mountain . they are full size in the best detail you can get ...i did not take a picture of a old rock pile . i took pictures of the whole mountain at a time from many different angles... ,please grow up and understand if i have not given the location of the mine out i am doing that for a good reason .. i do in fact know where the mine is located ...most of the legend is made up BS ...and that's a outright fact ! was Waltz telling the truth about the mine .." YES" is it a real mine , "YES" . it is really hidden that well ..."YES" ... it is just the way Waltz left it .. , i dont have the money to get to AZ and i have not ask anyone for a red cent ! .. i was the smart one . i did not take ore from the mine for a good reason . i was being watched and i did not want them to find it if they searched me at the time ...i don't fear you dude , but your not the only one watching the dutch hunters .. and there are a lot less good ones left these days ... you always go on and on with attacking me for your own BS reasons , they have no merit here . what do you think would happen if someone posted the real location of the mine here on the web . it would be the biggest shootout in AZ history not to mention the people that would get hurt rushing into the mountains to go see if it was there even if it wasn't ...man think before you jump to conclusion. why would i stay here year after year watching the sites i go to dozens of site every day to check up on background research ... sorry only a very little of that has anything to do with the LDM legend ... i have been researching the legends for over 51 years ..yes ....i know where the mine is ..!

[but you can not left a normal size human body over your head to a heath of 9 ft tall , as i said it is impossible to do that]

Broad statement for you to make with such assurance.. and declaration of possibility or not.
We had a former rugby player in fish camp that could probably throw a lighter weight person 9 feet.
On a rope , I don't doubt he could hoist me at will. Though a pulley , snatch block or roller would assure such in a hurry. A Spanish windlass or series of them , slower. For those who carry rope. Such a rope could be handy for a nine foot vertical leap above ground hole for a mine entrance (somehow covered up) if a trampoline wasn't handy.Or for work with a pack animal(s).
A tree trunk cut for a ladder ever exist? Or a lever? Or fulcrum? Yet a nine foot progress is impossible...Per you.
Are wheels gears? Are cartwheel track scars still evident in the desert?
Can a wheel be used to lift? Can two be used?
Can cart wheels be carried uphill? Dragged?
Trebuchet'ed uphill?

Without having been there since the first piece of rock fell , we don't really know what happened on a given site. Despite imagination. We sure don't know what eyes watched in passing over time.



You don't carry a knife while out back of beyond? Did a guide handle your bow killed deer for you? Or were they a secret midget specie no one else hunted that can be carried in one arm?
Not sure why a body would need to go in a mine to get rid of it...But if to deter others from entering ; then a body in pieces would deter just as well.

What that has to do with who has looked into the mine or not, to say nothing of smelling it...... Like any legend or account (including yours) is best taken with a grain of salt. Preferably with a clean water chaser. Muddied accounts aside.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Blindbowman will not be able to reply, since he continues to refuse to follow our rules on attacking and insulting members.

 

[Fireflash]

the mine is a vertical shaft 12 -14ft deep it is covered over and is almost impossible to see it , i matches the area it is in .. you can stand and look right at it and unless someone points it out to you ,you will never know it is there . if you even could get close to it .. Waltz out did himself when he hide the mine . he knew people would hunt for it .. even if he gave them clues they could never have found the mine without him showing them where it was .. he knew that ..

This does beg the question - if the mine can't be located using the Dutchman's clues, and practically invisible even if standing near it - how did you find it?

 

[Cubfan64]

This does beg the question - if the mine can't be located using the Dutchman's clues, and practically invisible even if standing near it - how did you find it?

The post above yours states that Blindbowman can no longer replay - I assume he has received a ban (unsure if temporary or permanent) for not following rules and being insulting to other members here.

Consider yourself lucky, because his answer to your question would just lead to more questions. He's been a "character" (putting it nicely) here and other forums for a LONG time, and the majority of what he says is outlandish at best.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The post above yours states that Blindbowman can no longer replay - I assume he has received a ban (unsure if temporary or permanent) for not following rules and being insulting to other members here.

It is not a permanent ban (yet), buy he will not be able to post the rest of the year. I got tired of asking and warning him to post by our rules.

 

[Cubfan64]

It is not a permanent ban (yet), buy he will not be able to post the rest of the year. I got tired of asking and warning him to post by our rules.

You have way more patience with him than I do

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You have way more patience with him than I do

We don't like banning members, but sometimes we have to. I try to have as much patience as possible, but after several warnings patience wears thin.

 

[gollum]

After almost twenty years, I think I will publicly give the AREA (IMHO) where the LDM lies. This is why Waltz was going to the Boardhouse (Quarter Circle U Ranch):

His instructions had to have been simple "See the mountain with the hole near the top? Go around the East Side of that mountain. From there, travel due North until you hit a big canyon. Go Left at the canyon and travel Northwesterly. Once you get to the place where this big canyon turns sharply to the West/Left. Then....................." And that's all you get. The area I firmly believe the LDM sits is in the neighborhood of Marsh Valley (Bluff, Blacktop, Charlebois, Malapais area).

Mike

 

[Idahodutch]

After almost twenty years, I think I will publicly give the AREA (IMHO) where the LDM lies. This is why Waltz was going to the Boardhouse (Quarter Circle U Ranch):

His instructions had to have been simple "See the mountain with the hole near the top? Go around the East Side of that mountain. From there, travel due North until you hit a big canyon. Go Left at the canyon and travel Northwesterly. Once you get to the place where this big canyon turns sharply to the West/Left. Then....................." And that's all you get. The area I firmly believe the LDM sits is in the neighborhood of Marsh Valley (Bluff, Blacktop, Charlebois, Malapais area).

Mike

Mike,
Sounds like you’re getting it narrowed down 🥴😁
I can see why you waited almost 20 years to share that 👍🤓

Thanks for sharing Mike 😉

 

[Idahodutch]

Mike,
Sounds like you’re getting it narrowed down 🥴😁
I can see why you waited almost 20 years to share that 👍🤓

Thanks for sharing Mike 😉

I didn’t mean that in a negative way, but was glad you shared .
It sounds like the board house directions, although we’re incomplete as far as we know, was so Waltz could maybe go at least part way in, before pointing off to the distance.

How far would they have gotten Waltz over the backbone, or how far coming in from the north, would they have been able to get Waltz.

Those options (imho) would get nowhere close enough with Waltz in tow.
He picked a path where he thought he would be able to give enough direction.

However, in my opinion, you have narrowed it down to an area, and I’m thinking you are correct 👍 😉

 

[markmar]

This does beg the question - if the mine can't be located using the Dutchman's clues, and practically invisible even if standing near it - how did you find it?

IMHO, he didn't. And nobody can find it by luck or following Waltz's clues. More possible is to find another gold mines in the Superstitions than the LDM, and there are plenty. It's reguired supplementary skills to find it, like Spanish/Mexican maps decoding.