✅ SOLVED Need Identification help :)

[mk4125]

After 2 long days of endless internet surfing I still have yet to find the exact image of what we dug up. This was found in on the shore of Lake Michigan near Mackinac. In my searching the closest I got was that it might be a British tax seal. () But again, have yet to find confirmation in matching the image. Anyone have any insight into this find? Thanks!

 

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[ARC]

Welp it is definitely British...

Hmmm let me check some things... bb.

 

[ARC]

If you do not mind me asking... where did you find this ?
Region/state etc ?

 

[mk4125]

Lower peninsula Michigan- Northwest tip, Lake Michigan shoreline... nearing the straits of Mackinac.

 

[ARC]

Anyway...
This IS British...
This is a RARE piece in my opinion and super killer cool.
It is the Royal Coat Of Arms...

 

[releventchair]

Lots of British and native activity in the area at one time.

 

[ARC]

Yours however...

Has "more" to it.

 

[OWK]

HONI-SOIT-QUI-MAL-Y-PENSE

Google it, and you will find your answer.

 

[Bramblefind]

What a great find! Congratulations!

Here is something like it - also a Great Lakes region find- Yours is a slightly different design though. If you go to the linked article there is one that looks to be the same design as yours. It dates to 1603-1649 but also says "these arms were reused during two later periods"

http://www.whattheyleftbehind.com/CLOTH SEAL PAPER 8-2-11.pdf

so I will try to research that too.

Cloth Seal, Georgian Armorial, 1714 - 1800

Cloth Seal, Georgian Armorial, 1714 - 1800
Cloth Seal, Armorial, George I - III, Image & Found by Lloyd Draper.
Found near Lewiston, County of Niagara in New York, USA, diameter 41mm.


One disc of a typical large armorial four disc seal with Royal Arms of Britain 1714 - 1800, Garter around with motto HONI SOIT QVI MAL Y PENSE, surmounted by crowned helmet with lion passant guardant on, supported by lion and unicorn, below a ribbon with motto DIEU ET MON DROIT, all in a circular border of fused pellets.


"I am sending photos of some lead seals found near the town of Lewiston, county of Niagara in New York, USA. The site is in an area of British Army occupation from the mid 1700s until the end of the War of 1812. There were also a few two part bale seals found in the same site. All of these have some gilding still on them and the backs are all blank with a mold mark on each. The back which is shown has a Union Jack roughly scratched into it as can be seen. I neglected to photograph with measurements, but are roughly the size of an American half dollar. The first three have coat of arms from King Georges I, II,and III ... Maybe you can help me identify the purpose of these and how they were used and why found in USA."


These arms were used under George I, II and III until the latter renounced his title as King of France under the Treaty of Paris in 1801 and the fleur-de-lis were replaced by the lion of Scotland and the arms of Hanover were moved to the centre. Unfortunately the other three discs are missing but the same disc from two other seals of this type have been found by Lloyd and one clearly shows some remaining gilding. See Geoff Egan,Lead Cloth Seals and Related Items in the British Museum, No.196, Fig.28 for an earlier version of these armorial seals.


A most interesting article that includes reference to these types of seals and their American history has been written by Steve Cox - CLOTH SEAL MEDALS The transformation of a Cloth Seal into a Medal

 

[ARC]

You found this with a detector or by eye ?

 

[ARC]

EVEN BEFORE... I find out what this VERY SPECIAL thingymabob is...

I have 1 word for this piece...

BANNER.

 

[mk4125]

Did google the phrase first thing, and found interesting articles on the tax laws that were imposed during this time.... always great to get a history lesson! The frustrating part is trying to find this exact image...meaning that the royal coat of arms has the correct images (there are hundreds of variations!) as well as well as the crest in the middle of the coat of arms. We did find this button in the same rough location a few weeks ago.

 

[mk4125]

Detector.... Wish my eyes were that good! About 8" dig.

 

[deepsecrets]

Good information from Bramblefind - think you have your ID on this item. Very rare and I would vote banner on this also. Congratulations!

 

[Army of 1]

Congrats on a very rare and cool piece , great recovery mk4125 .. cheers Mick

 

[ARC]

Deep... bramble...

That is not it.

 

[mk4125]

Great article Bramblefind! Thanks for sharing!

 

[deepsecrets]

Deep... bramble...

That is not it.

ARRC - Always open to other opinions on this of course, what is your thought?

 

[ARC]

NM... What they left behind is correct...
It is a seal... cloth.
Definitely a rare cloth seal.

I repeat...

BANNER... KILLER condition. man what a find...

Phenom.

 

[deepsecrets]

NM... What they left behind is correct...
It is a seal... cloth.
Definitely a rare cloth seal.

I repeat...

BANNER... KILLER condition. man what a find...

Phenom.

So I believe that we are all in agreement then that this is a lead cloth bale seal with British Royal Crest.