Need help with the ID on a very old dug flintlock side plate

[smokeythecat]

This is under the other thread from yesterday, but I was wondering if anyone out there could help me with an ID on it. The site was occupied (generally) last quarter 17th century to first quarter 18th century.

The lock was down quite a bit. The main lock plate is the flat kind, no curve or beveling to it at all. The frizzen is squared at the top, unlike the first model Brown Bess, whose frizzen is sloped to the top center, this one is dead flat across the top, and it is thicker than a Bess frizzen. There is the trifoil decoration where the frizzen screw attaches the frizzen spring to the lock.

It is 6.5" or 166 mm long. Any ideas what it went to?

 

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[HuntinDog]

Awesome find and an old one for sure.
I don't have any knowledge on that type of firearm, but I'm sure some will.

 

[ARC]

Looks British.

 

[Yak1366]

Great find, congrats!!!

 

[smokeythecat]

Should date 1680-1725 at the latest, due to what we found with it.

 

[villagenut]

Jeff Gordon might well know......but I don't think he will tell you

 

[releventchair]

IF there were two small holes near the pointed end I'd guess large Siler as a generic attempt.

OR...It's cousin Durs Egg from England.

 

[smokeythecat]

No, at this point he probably won't. There will be more screw holes in it. I'm letting it sit until tomorrow. I mechanically removed most of the rust.

 

[Gare]

I would look closley at a Brown Bess British 1742 to 1744
good luck nice find

 

[smokeythecat]

I have George Neumann's book on the weapons from the Revolution, which includes much older guns and the Bess plates were rounded on the edges.

Relevantchair, I will be doing more cleaning tomorrow, and more screw holes should appear. Somewhere.

 

[NHBandit]

Join this group. Someone will know exactly what it is. Then they'll start arguing over what day it was made and by who.. Buttt you'll have your answer. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/britishmilitariaforums/

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Not a Bess lock. At least it appears to never have had a pan bridle. And the older (first model) Bess locks were very banana shaped. There would also be two small holes behind the cock tumbler hole instead of only one.

The Bess locks were also rounded on the face top to bottom. Yours appears flat. That is "|)" in cross section instead of "||". Seeing any perforations will help a lot. You can tell where the internals were attached.

 

[huntsman53]

Just a wild guess but I would say that the frizzen was likely flattened at it's top by the owner/user due to damage. You can check probably every Muzzleloading Rifle, Musket or Pistol made in the 1700's and 1800's and even before and you will likely not find one that was made with a frizzen that is flat at the top, military or civilian!

 

[ARC]

Can be ID'd smoke... but your gonna have to break out the wire brush to the flat part to expose the hole pattern to pos id.

 

[ARC]

Like I stated earlier... its British IMO ... SO FAR anyway. :P

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Time to invest in a quality tumbler... that's what I'd do with it if it was mine.
Interesting and potentially historic find.

Dave

 

[ARC]

Time to invest in a quality tumbler... that's what I'd do with it if it was mine.
Interesting and potentially historic find.

Dave

Tumbler would destroy it.

Wire wheel it.

 

[ARC]

outer side only.

And just till you can make out hole pattern.

Will look better as well.

 

[Gare]

this was what i went by briefly

https://www.google.com/search?q=bro...KHRetDLcQ9QEwDnoECAQQCg#imgrc=C475ZcngTEl2QM:

 

[smokeythecat]

Interesting idea on the top of the frizzen. It will get a knife to it later, the back side is starting to flake well. The rust that is. Be noon it should be much better and I'll put some pics up. I have a tumbler but I found hand cleaning is better, and I have a dremel. Film at 12?