Need help to ID This Weapon

[Texas Kid]

I was gifted this weapon which I know is a percussion/muzzle loader. Just would like to know where & when it might have been made .Barrel has a .63 bore@ muzzle. These pictures were taken after clean up and I hope they help. I have a ton more pictures but these are of marking in the hardware. Would appreciate any help yo can provide ! Thanks! The Kid

 

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[cudamark]

I hope you didn't ruin any of the value by cleaning it up.

 

[Texas Kid]

I probably did,but id was going to be impossible with out any info! It would have made a good wall piece as it was,but my curiosity got the best of me!

I hope you didn't ruin any of the value by cleaning it up.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Would also help to see any stamps or marks on the sideplate of the lock (the face that shows when assembled) and whether it is rifled or smooth.

I don't see any familiar British proofmarks, but a load of inspector stamps.

 

[Tedyoh]

What's odd to me is that your 1st and 3rd picture seem to show a round shaped barrel, and pics 2, 4 and 5 seem to show an octagonal shaped barrel? Also what's the metal pieces near the barrel in pics 1 and 3? The last picture of the person holding the gun makes me think it was a gun made for a child, very small / short barrel. Interesting for sure!

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Looks like a "chopped" sporterized former musket. It might be what's left of an 1841 Mississippi or 1842 Whitney rifle. The barrel would not have been octagonal to round, so it may be a hybrid accumulation of bits to make a serviceable hunting/defense shooter.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Nope. The Mississippi lock was nothing like the internals shown for the lock. Those three screws in a tight row are pretty distinctive . . . but not from a 1841/42 lock.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

The internals of the lock look like an Enfield to me, I'd like to see a pic of the other side of the lock plate, plus a good clear pic of the assembled gun from the right side focusing on the lock area.

It looks like you took a wire brush to it.... so any value it could have had is gone, along with the patina. for future reference, and to anyone else reading this thread... NEVER do this to an old gun. Wipe it down with oil and a soft rag to get the gunk and rust off, but leave that old patina.

This particular gun you didn't lose much, It's a musket that someone cut down to make a hunting gun. They don't have a lot of interest for collectors, and therefore not a lot of value.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Enfield's had a toggle on the mainspring that his lacks (and two bridle screws vs. three of his). But that's one reason I wanted to see the lock plate as well. It would have a crown.



The hammer looks Enfieldish for certain.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Yeah, after a closer look I also noticed his spring is different, hopefully the other side of the lock will tell us something more... I also noticed similarities to the 1855 Springfield lock, but that one has one less screw, and a different shape to the end of the mainspring..

 

[BosnMate]

It almost looks like an Indian Trade musket. If the wire holding the barrel to the stock was rawhide I say that for sure. Any value the gun might have had was removed with the wire brush.

 

[augoldminer]

Many times in the days when guns like this were made you had small town gunsmiths that built guns from parts that could be used or sold by gunsmiths that built just barrels or locks.
Many of these guns never were really classified by a maker.

You had in those days guns like Kentucky long rifles(Pennsylvania rifle). some were built by one gun smith. others were just built from parts made from a number of gun smiths.

Some of these smiths put there names of the guns they built some just put there names on the part they built. and some never put there name on anything.

Your gun looks like the style called a Hawken carbine.
But you guns does not have patch box and that leads me to believe its a parts gun built using parts of old guns.

Land and grove patten, twist, like was it built for a patched ball or a conical.
The keeper that held the barrel to the stock. the rear sight mounts type may tell you something.

 

[Texas Kid]

The internals of the lock look like an Enfield to me, I'd like to see a pic of the other side of the lock plate, plus a good clear pic of the assembled gun from the right side focusing on the lock area.

It looks like you took a wire brush to it.... so any value it could have had is gone, along with the patina. for future reference, and to anyone else reading this thread... NEVER do this to an old gun. Wipe it down with oil and a soft rag to get the gunk and rust off, but leave that old patina.

This particular gun you didn't lose much, It's a musket that someone cut down to make a hunting gun. They don't have a lot of interest for collectors, and therefore not a lot of value.

Ok i'll except my butt chewin' about the clean up,but I would still like to add to the info that you men passed along. I;m real sure its a smooth bore barrel that starts off like a hexed barrel but smooths out. The barrel pin that holds the front of the barrel to the stock was gone and replaced with a wrap of soft wire and not rawhide.Its about the leght of a Springfield carbine.Following are pictures of the lock from the hammer side and the breech plug Hope they help. Thanks for having your game face on.I really appreciate the help.The Kid

 

[Texas Kid]

View attachment 1179335View attachment 1179336

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I can't help thinking I've seen the stamp on that lock before, I was thinking Austrian, but I can't remember. As it is.... My suggestion is to go to Dixie Gun Works or a similar company and get some "rust bluing" solution, and refinish it before it corrodes. It'll give you a rich brown finish that will look really good and appropriate to the gun. This one is really cheap compared to others that will run $40 or more. I used it on a rifle I built a while back and got really good results...you may also be able to find a barrel band to replace the wire with, or if you're handy you could make one out of sheet brass, in that condition it's a wall hanger, and sprucing it up a bit won't hurt it.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_96_214_216&products_id=3054

 

[austin]

Where was it found, if I may ask?

 

[Texas Kid]

Smooth Bore

Would also help to see any stamps or marks on the sideplate of the lock (the face that shows when assembled) and whether it is rifled or smooth.

I don't see any familiar British proofmarks, but a load of inspector stamps.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

wrong pic

Here's a pic of the rifle I built just to show the kind of color you'll be able to get on it. My barrel is modern steel so I'd expect yours to take color even better and get a deeper finish. If you decide to refinish it I'd love to see pics of the finished gun.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I found a modern .62 cal Hawken rifle online that looks a lot like yours.... I'll try to re find the pic and post more info later

 

[Ettiene1]

I found a spike like weapon with a buckle sort of thing. What is it?