Need Help In 1840 Gun Restoration - SOLVED - UpDated 2-16

[Michigan Badger]

This is the dug pistol I purchased recently.

I'm thinking seriously about a complete restoration.

To begin the process I need to have a picture and/or a more precise ID for this gun.

I'm posting an enlargement of the maker stamp plus a view of the pistol itself.

This probably has been through here before but I need the info for the restorers.

Anything you have by way of gun identification, please share.

Total length of the gun as seen is exactly 4 1/8 inches.

Thanks,

Badger

 

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[Michigan Badger]

Re: Need Help In 1840 Gun Restoration - SOLVED

Thanks PBK. Do you have suggestions on how I could go about tracking this particular model down? Or are these too difficult to zero in on?

They were generally inexpensive, generic guns. However, you might try asking an expert like Norm Flayderman:

http://www.flayderman.com/

Could you post a pic of the other side? It would make it easier to ID the model of this Belgian pistol. If it has a sidelock hammer and nipple it may be on the other side. Or is it a clump of rust? I merely reversed you picture for easier comparison.

Sorry I didn't see your post. Here's a couple more views.

Note the hammer is center mounted and worked through a slot in the top of the pistol frame.

The barrel is flat sided as most all repros have round barrels.

Thanks,

Badger

Thats called an octagon barrel. It is not a reproduction. It has that unusual muzzle (barrel end) that I can find on no other Belgian short barreled boot/belt model. But I thought your hammer was a sidelock. Is yours .45 caliber? Is it brass?

Here's the closest I've been able to find so far.

It's brass and I'd guess 32 cal.

Description: An attractive brass cannon barrel percussion boxlock pistol having a 2 1/2 ins cannon barrrel of .50 Bore.Brass boxlock frame with steel trigger,triggerguard and hammer.This pistol has a slab walnut butt and was produced for self protection. Status: For Sale Reference#: 14663
Condition: Very Good Year: 1850
Country: Belgium


Title: A Continental brass pistol

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Need Help In 1840 Gun Restoration - SOLVED

That looks like a closer match, now that I see the backside and center hammer. Nice find.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Need Help In 1840 Gun Restoration - SOLVED

That looks like a closer match, now that I see the backside and center hammer. Nice find.

It could be 1830's more like this model:

PM264 This is a single barrel hammer brass pocket pistol cir. 1830's with English and Belgium proof marks. (ELG. VC.) A single brass canon shape barrel with fine engraving on the side of the barrel and top plate. Trigger, trigger guard and hammer are steel. The pistol is fitted with wooden stock (grip) light colour walnut with small silver shield. Overall length 6" Barrel 3" Bore size 410 or 10mm

 

[Monty]

I think any reputable gunsmith will probably tell you the pistol is too far gone to restore. If that is the case, finding a replica or duplicate and displaying them together would be your best bet. I think that type display would also better illustrate its historical significance. Just a thought. Monty

 

[FoxHound0985]

MB,

Here is THE IDENTICAL pistol currently for sale. I'm glad it made it to you safely and that you enjoy it. Take care and HH!

Fox

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8405859

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think thats it Foxhound.

Seller's Description:
Offered for your consideration is this Belgian pistol in 31 caliber. These are commonly referred to as “pocket” or “coat” pistols and date from 1840-1860. Condition is very good. The brass frame and barrel show a nice patina. The birds head wooden grip is solid with no cracks or splits and showing most all of the original finish. The lock work is solid and engages fully in both the half cock and full cock positions. One screw in the grip is a replacement. This is a great little “gentleman’s” pistol seldom seen in this condition. Bid with confidence, this item comes with my 100% full satisfaction return policy. Please see return policy below for details.

I would put it in electrolysis to prevent further deterioration of the steel parts, separate the brass from the rust, and try to find replica replacement parts. The brass body and barrel may be saveable. You could possibly find a hammer and nipple that fits, and make a wood handle. The hardest parts to find or fabricate would be the trigger assembly.

 

[Michigan Badger]

I think any reputable gunsmith will probably tell you the pistol is too far gone to restore. If that is the case, finding a replica or duplicate and displaying them together would be your best bet. I think that type display would also better illustrate its historical significance. Just a thought. Monty

I'm sure you're right, Monty. Metal buried becomes brittle and pitted.

I had in mind a non-firing partial restoration but am now leaning away from that to just leaving it as is.

Thanks,

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

I think thats it Foxhound.

Seller's Description:
Offered for your consideration is this Belgian pistol in 31 caliber. These are commonly referred to as “pocket” or “coat” pistols and date from 1840-1860. Condition is very good. The brass frame and barrel show a nice patina. The birds head wooden grip is solid with no cracks or splits and showing most all of the original finish. The lock work is solid and engages fully in both the half cock and full cock positions. One screw in the grip is a replacement. This is a great little “gentleman’s” pistol seldom seen in this condition. Bid with confidence, this item comes with my 100% full satisfaction return policy. Please see return policy below for details.


I would put it in electrolysis to prevent further deterioration of the steel parts, separate the brass from the rust, and try to find replica replacement parts. The brass body and barrel may be saveable. You could possibly find a hammer and nipple that fits, and make a wood handle. The hardest parts to find or fabricate would be the trigger assembly.

Yes, this is what I had in mind at first. I'm still looking for the parts and know now I'd have to do most of the work myself. The trigger action work would need to be done by a gunsmith that's for sure. But, it would be very expensive unless I went with a non-firing no action version. It would be strictly a wall hanger.

Badger

 

[Michigan Badger]

MB,

Here is THE IDENTICAL pistol currently for sale. I'm glad it made it to you safely and that you enjoy it. Take care and HH!

Fox

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8405859

WOW! Thanks much FoxHound!

You got it for sure.

By the way, everyone asks me where this was dug. I know the general location of course but was it found on land that could have been a CW troop location or was this not a possibility?

Thanks,

Badger