need button help help me guys

[jrwill56]

went out at lunch again today,only 75 yds from my old site.found old coin very worn but looks like another king george 111 1/2 penny,also found this button,can make out anchor and cross cannons, and 4 th regiment.anyone know?

 

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[CRUSADER]

Re: need button help

OK guys do we have a ID?

the people at the university say my button is not french,it proberly civil war
but the can't locate the orgin.

seriously, what type of Uni?

East Carolina u. ,archeology dept.

Do you believe them?
I have very little button knowledge compared to many others out there, but CW era would be my last guess.
Are they coming up with any references, or was this just 1 guys/gals feeling

 

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[jrwill56]

Re: need button help

OK guys do we have a ID?

the people at the university say my button is not french,it proberly civil war
but the can't locate the orgin.

the head man, and the expert on water arc, and military

seriously, what type of Uni?

East Carolina u. ,archeology dept.

Do you believe them?
I have very little button knowledge compared to many others out there, but CW era would be my last guess.
Are they coming up with any references, or was this just 1 guys/gals feeling

the head

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont have much knowlege on French Marine Artillery buttons but I hope its alright to post. Here are some other French buttons to look at. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249517.msg1787852.html#msg1787852

 

[johnnyi]

Bigcy, I think that button was brought up before. If not it is one of the first articles that comes up whe you try a scan for this type, and it may be what influenced the university teacher. If you read the article you'll find the boys who found it "guessed" that it was Civil War period. this may be a case of a guess based on a guess regarding will's button and the U. teacher. It should be fairly easy to identify the button in your scan Cy (republique francaise), and maybe that will be a roundabout way of finding if some of thee these profs know what they are talking about.

 

[johnnyi]

I'm posting a second link for you which is a forum you can join, and where you can have your button i.d.'d by french collectors. It has a way to translate and it is free. It seems there was a huge variety of French Marine buttons from the early (1803-12 and earlier) period, an they existed in every imaginable style within a very brief and often overlapping period. I doubt very much that your university professor could have immediately known what your's was, considering some of these are still a mystery in France. It also seems from the following scans that even the University people mentioned in my above post may have misidentified a button they found at an early 1800's site. At any rate I've posted several scans for you which show clearly a style similar to your's with many variations. The style rope border is the problem so far. ..............Oh No! I have just discovered that the scans do not appear!!!! You must get them for yourself! Here is how:......

1) Go to the first page (translated) 2) Press the research tab. 3) enter in the first box marine 4) examine each link individually and look at the similarity and huge number of different styles in a single few years (and this is a tiny sample!)


Hopefully one of the savvy members of this forum will know how to post the actual photos?


priodhttp://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://labanquedesboutons.forumactif.com/venez-vous-prsentez-afin-que-l-on-puisse-vous-souhaiter-la-bienvenue-f1/bonjour-tous-les-amoureux-des-boutons-militaires-francais-t17.htm&ei=ZrueSorfO9PflAeC94GtDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbouton%2Bmilitaire%2Bfrancaise%26hl%3Den

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

 

[jrwill56]

I'm posting a second link for you which is a forum you can join, and where you can have your button i.d.'d by french collectors. It has a way to translate and it is free. It seems there was a huge variety of French Marine buttons from the early (1803-12 and earlier) period, an they existed in every imaginable style within a very brief and often overlapping period. I doubt very much that your university professor could have immediately known what your's was, considering some of these are still a mystery in France. It also seems from the following scans that even the University people mentioned in my above post may have misidentified a button they found at an early 1800's site. At any rate I've posted several scans for you which show clearly a style similar to your's with many variations. The style rope border is the problem so far. ..............Oh No! I have just discovered that the scans do not appear!!!! You must get them for yourself! Here is how:......

1) Go to the first page (translated) 2) Press the research tab. 3) enter in the first box marine 4) examine each link individually and look at the similarity and huge number of different styles in a single few years (and this is a tiny sample!)


Hopefully one of the savvy members of this forum will know how to post the actual photos?


priodhttp://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://labanquedesboutons.forumactif.com/venez-vous-prsentez-afin-que-l-on-puisse-vous-souhaiter-la-bienvenue-f1/bonjour-tous-les-amoureux-des-boutons-militaires-francais-t17.htm&ei=ZrueSorfO9PflAeC94GtDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbouton%2Bmilitaire%2Bfrancaise%26hl%3Den

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

thanks I got these pics,but the teachers say the writing on my button is english

 

[johnnyi]

Jr, yes, thats but one of them, but there are many many more with cannon and anchor. My sister speaks french and I'll see her tomorrow and ask her to post a question on the link for you. It's not the most active place but I'll bet you will at least learn whether it is French or not.

 

[Iron Patch]

I'm posting a second link for you which is a forum you can join, and where you can have your button i.d.'d by french collectors. It has a way to translate and it is free. It seems there was a huge variety of French Marine buttons from the early (1803-12 and earlier) period, an they existed in every imaginable style within a very brief and often overlapping period. I doubt very much that your university professor could have immediately known what your's was, considering some of these are still a mystery in France. It also seems from the following scans that even the University people mentioned in my above post may have misidentified a button they found at an early 1800's site. At any rate I've posted several scans for you which show clearly a style similar to your's with many variations. The style rope border is the problem so far. ..............Oh No! I have just discovered that the scans do not appear!!!! You must get them for yourself! Here is how:......

1) Go to the first page (translated) 2) Press the research tab. 3) enter in the first box marine 4) examine each link individually and look at the similarity and huge number of different styles in a single few years (and this is a tiny sample!)


Hopefully one of the savvy members of this forum will know how to post the actual photos?


priodhttp://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://labanquedesboutons.forumactif.com/venez-vous-prsentez-afin-que-l-on-puisse-vous-souhaiter-la-bienvenue-f1/bonjour-tous-les-amoureux-des-boutons-militaires-francais-t17.htm&ei=ZrueSorfO9PflAeC94GtDQ&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=10&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dbouton%2Bmilitaire%2Bfrancaise%26hl%3Den

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

http://translate.google.com/transla...ev=/search?q=bouton+militaire+francaise&hl=en

thanks I got these pics,but the teachers say the writing on my button is english

The one you just posted is a match for the one in my book. The only difference is the back, your turret shank probably dates it just after this listing which is a bone back. French of course.

 

[jrwill56]

Jr, yes, thats but one of them, but there are many many more with cannon and anchor. My sister speaks french and I'll see her tomorrow and ask her to post a question on the link for you. It's not the most active place but I'll bet you will at least learn whether it is French or not.

went back found this one. good enough for me, thanks,now we will see what the expert says

 

[CRUSADER]

Jr, yes, thats but one of them, but there are many many more with cannon and anchor. My sister speaks french and I'll see her tomorrow and ask her to post a question on the link for you. It's not the most active place but I'll bet you will at least learn whether it is French or not.

went back found this one. good enough for me, thanks,now we will see what the expert says

Once again, who is the experts?

Those with experience or those that

 

[johnnyi]

Remember JR, you haven't identified it yet. You're just on perhaps a better road to identifying it. By googling "bouton" instead of "button", and "francaise" instead of France, "bouton marine" , etc., you'll have a better shot at finding the right example if it's there. Posting your's on the above french link though would be a great step in identifying it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

In case you missed it, the last button you posted is here also. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249517.msg1787852.html#msg1787852
http://www.artifacts.org/francepage.htm


NAVAL AND COLONIAL ARMIES
1772-1789

A variety of buttons like those above were worn by enlisted members of the French Armées Naval et Coloniale (Naval and Colonial Armies), which included naval, marine, and colonial infantry forces. Naval and Marine forces wore gold or "yellow" colored buttons, while colonial troops were called upon to use "white" or silver colored versions of these patterns. Officers wore foil-clad, bone backed versions of these and other, similar "anchor button" designs. Such buttons would have been worn by the French naval and marine forces, as well as by the colonial Du Cap regiment, during the 1781 siege of Pensacola

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Bigcy, I think that button was brought up before. If not it is one of the first articles that comes up whe you try a scan for this type, and it may be what influenced the university teacher. If you read the article you'll find the boys who found it "guessed" that it was Civil War period.

They thought it was War of 1812. I realize its different but it has similarities..

 

[johnnyi]

No bigcypreshunter, you apparently didn't read the article itself that the post was based on. This is what the actual article said which found and illustrated this discovery:

"A French Navy uniform button was found at a third site. We believe it dates to the mid-19th century, but we have no explanation for its presence along Goose Creek. Analysis of the artifacts from this project were completed in the spring of 2000. This survey was done for NASPAX’s Natural and Cultural Resources Branch, using funds from the Department of Defense Legacy Resources Management Program."

This is what I meant by Universities sometimes getting it wrong.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

No bigcypreshunter, you apparently didn't read the article itself that the post was based on. This is what the actual article said which found and illustrated this discovery:

"A French Navy uniform button was found at a third site. We believe it dates to the mid-19th century, but we have no explanation for its presence along Goose Creek. Analysis of the artifacts from this project were completed in the spring of 2000. This survey was done for NASPAX’s Natural and Cultural Resources Branch, using funds from the Department of Defense Legacy Resources Management Program."

This is what I meant by Universities sometimes getting it wrong.

I thought I read it but I posted it back in June to help identify another members French button. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,249517.msg1787852.html#msg1787852 Thanks for correcting me, yes I have the 1812 date wrong. I think it is closer to 1805. As far as I recall they didnt know where it came from and werent much help to us in identification when I contacted them. The point is, its a French button because it says so on the front. But I see your point, that they originally thought mid-1800's and that is what the link says and that may have influenced the other university.
You cant trust everything on the net.


I cant get the link to work that you posted.

 

[jrwill56]

french ,yes still don't know how it got to nc, nor have i found one with 4.

 

[Iron Patch]

french ,yes still don't know how it got to nc, nor have i found one with 4.

By boat. It was the 'only way to fly!'