Narked1
Full Member
Okay, have read and re-read the chain. Going to be long and windy here. First, the guy in charge of the expedition was wrong. I say this in that he did not do his research properly in order to get access to what the US Gov. considers a war grave. Now, the survivor's organization was well intentioned. Of that, there is not doubt. Their intentions are extremely honourable. Again, they didn't do the research thoroughly enough in order to get the proper permits. The law is the law....regarding US citizens.
Now, if the survivor's association hired a non-US citizen to do the same project, would the same rules and laws apply? Probably yes. But are they enforceable? Probably no. And if the answer is yes? Then the survivor's association of this shipwreck would be probably already received a copy of the video from an ROV and made so many copies of it that it would'nt matter anyway while the case is tied up in the courts. Put that in your "lesson's learned" file for future diving on war graves located in international waters.
I also served in the US Navy for 20 years. Albeit after Viet Nam. I only did the Desert Storm thing.....which sucked. As a sailor, took fire while extracting US Embassy employees from Liberia, had to avoid the occasional sniper while stationed at a Comm post in Honduras. The face of naval warfare has changed dramatically since Viet Nam. And most of the men and women out there at sea cannot even conceptualize what a ship sinking would be like ever since America became THE Superpower. I read this chain and it made me a bit angry (but not at any or you guys....just angry at what we Americans have become.....and forgotten).
I dive wrecks because I want to know their history. I spend my days at work working on military ships trying to "make them go" as operational combat platforms for the Egyptian Navy under the Foreign Military Sales program. After I retired from the navy and started diving again (I first learned how to dive in '80) I started diving wrecks because I want to know what happens to a ship after it sinks. I have dove on the wreck of the Salem Express here, as well as many others. Considered by the Egyptian Government to be a grave site. Diving the interior of the wreck you will still find suitcases filled with personal belongings, children's toys, Egyptian money, etc. The bodies are long gone. However, for the relatives, this is an important site. Call it ancestor worship or whatever. It is important to someone's memory of where their loved ones died...and how. Oh, and nothing is allowed to be removed from the site either.
When the Monitor was raised and LT. Dixon was given a proper burial, who did that affect or hurt? Even though it was a war grave. Out of respect, don't you think that LT. Dixon would've like to buried near his family or in a place of honor? It may appear that the government tends to pick and choose what is allowed or not, but I tend to think that the government does not make it easy to find out what is required to dive a site, film a site, excavate a site. The rules and laws are not well publicized and when they are, they are vague in nature. If I am wrong in this please let me know.
Just my nickel's worth (wait-a-minute.....haven't seen a nickel in over 2 years here....Oh well, you know-what-I-mean
)
Mike
Now, if the survivor's association hired a non-US citizen to do the same project, would the same rules and laws apply? Probably yes. But are they enforceable? Probably no. And if the answer is yes? Then the survivor's association of this shipwreck would be probably already received a copy of the video from an ROV and made so many copies of it that it would'nt matter anyway while the case is tied up in the courts. Put that in your "lesson's learned" file for future diving on war graves located in international waters.
I also served in the US Navy for 20 years. Albeit after Viet Nam. I only did the Desert Storm thing.....which sucked. As a sailor, took fire while extracting US Embassy employees from Liberia, had to avoid the occasional sniper while stationed at a Comm post in Honduras. The face of naval warfare has changed dramatically since Viet Nam. And most of the men and women out there at sea cannot even conceptualize what a ship sinking would be like ever since America became THE Superpower. I read this chain and it made me a bit angry (but not at any or you guys....just angry at what we Americans have become.....and forgotten).
I dive wrecks because I want to know their history. I spend my days at work working on military ships trying to "make them go" as operational combat platforms for the Egyptian Navy under the Foreign Military Sales program. After I retired from the navy and started diving again (I first learned how to dive in '80) I started diving wrecks because I want to know what happens to a ship after it sinks. I have dove on the wreck of the Salem Express here, as well as many others. Considered by the Egyptian Government to be a grave site. Diving the interior of the wreck you will still find suitcases filled with personal belongings, children's toys, Egyptian money, etc. The bodies are long gone. However, for the relatives, this is an important site. Call it ancestor worship or whatever. It is important to someone's memory of where their loved ones died...and how. Oh, and nothing is allowed to be removed from the site either.
When the Monitor was raised and LT. Dixon was given a proper burial, who did that affect or hurt? Even though it was a war grave. Out of respect, don't you think that LT. Dixon would've like to buried near his family or in a place of honor? It may appear that the government tends to pick and choose what is allowed or not, but I tend to think that the government does not make it easy to find out what is required to dive a site, film a site, excavate a site. The rules and laws are not well publicized and when they are, they are vague in nature. If I am wrong in this please let me know.
Just my nickel's worth (wait-a-minute.....haven't seen a nickel in over 2 years here....Oh well, you know-what-I-mean
)Mike
