My Best Find Ever!******new pics added towards the bottom somewhere......

[Bagman13]

Hello TNetters!I decided to go out early this morning and think that I scored I thought it was a regular blade until I saw that beautiful notch as I cleaned it (and myself ). My best point, and best Christmas present to myself ever! It's a very nice material for my area! Merry Christmas everyone!

 

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[dognose]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

If this is a new relic type then the relic is truly unique. The symmetry is nice.

A positive identification from any photo is very hard. Saying this is a 'half creek' is strange as well. A half creek is not a bona fide relic type and such a term identifying a new type should be used with caution. Any relic which is thought to be a new type should be viewed, in person, by a quorum of qualified individuals.

A calf creek being early archaic it could be easy to draw a comparison. However why would this cultural group be unique in reshaping such a tool to this configuration? If there are many found, why are these not viewed at relic shows or seen in more publications?

The image shown by Neanderthal looks clean and virtually patina free - something not expected to be found. The center notching area looks like it is steep, without the expected fracture angle to the center hafting area.

I would suspect a relic which has this configuration is more likely a worked down Jetta or Montell. Worked down and reduced through resharpening and thinning until the barbed areas or reduced to the hafting area, resulting in this configuration.

 

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[Flintfinder of Mo.]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

What ever it is. Its rare, the first one I have ever seen.... I have seen many clovis, but none of these.... What a killer Christmas present..... Wow.... I think I will ring the Banner button.... If you guys think its banner worthy, you have got to Vote on it.... Great find congrats.... John

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Oh boy...where to start. I usually don't post much, but I do have a few minutes to kill this morning.

A positive identification from any photo is very hard. Saying this is a 'half creek' is strange as well. A half creek is not a bona fide relic type and such a term identifying a new type should be used with caution. Any relic which is thought to be a new type should be viewed, in person, by a quorum of qualified individuals.

I'll grant you that photo identification (and authentication) can be very subjective and often is risky at best. However, sometimes it's not that hard to make a call if you're intimately familiar with the types and the technology being used is unique. A "Half Creek" is an accepted term where they are found, as far as being published..we're working on that.

A calf creek being early archaic it could be easy to draw a comparison. However why would this cultural group be unique in reshaping such a tool to this configuration? If there are many found, why are these not viewed at relic shows or seen in more publications?

Calf Creek are more middle Archaic than early with dates ranging around 4000 B.C. - 3000 B.C. As I said in my previous post, I don't believe they are resharpened, they appear to be first form. I also said there weren't many found, they are rare. Again, the few known examples HAVE been shown at relic shows around the Ozarks.

The image shown by Neanderthal looks clean and virtually patina free - something not expected to be found. The center notching area looks like it is steep, without the expected fracture angle to the center hafting area.

It's chalked full of patina, wear and deposits. It has typical hydrofluvial river polish of a point being found on the Arkansas river. Of course the center notch looks steep, Calf Creek are notched with punch technique. Punch notching is a very identifiable technique used by many archaic artisans (Dovetail, Lost Lake)...primarily Calf Creek Culture. This is the only method that allows them to make the intricate, controlled, long notches that we're familiar with.

I would suspect a relic which has this configuration is more likely a worked down Jetta or Montell. Worked down and reduced through resharpening and thinning until the barbed areas or reduced to the hafting area, resulting in this configuration.

Not Jetta or Montell. This was found a longggg ways from central Texas and the manufacturing techniques are completely different. And before someone goes there, it's not Carrizo either

 

[buckshot]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Nice find for sure....

 

[StevefromMissouri]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Reworked Calf Creek from Missouri:

 

[jeff of pa]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Nice Find !

Any chance of you posting some Sharper
Pictures ?

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Steve, thanks for showing that great example of a salvaged Calf. It shows some of the distinct differences between the two. Like, the "ears" on a Half Creek were never stems and are considerably slimmer in width.

ETA: I reread some of my posts and realized that I may have given the wrong impression. It's possible that some of these pieces were the result of breaking an ear during initial knapping of the piece and then the new form developed. I don't want to give the impression that they couldn't be. What I'm trying to say is that they don't appear to be a completed Calf Creek (with both ears intact), hafted and used and then this be the result of that resharpening or salvaging (as in Steve's picture).

At least 5 of these have been found throughout the Ozarks. It's very probable that many of them exist in collections but not recognized as such.

 

[*Molly*]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Interesting find & info.
Thanks for taking the time to post Matt, I know you are busy.
Bagman, sure is a wonderful find. Glad you took the time to post it.

"Banner" for sure. Pieces like this are rare.

Molly.

 

[Jonzer]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

This piece is rare and very interesting.
It's in great shape. I say banner.

 

[Bagman13]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Thanks a bunch everyone. I will post more pics tonight.

Neanderthal.....I will call you tomorrow. Maybe we can meet up on Tuesday or Wednesday?

Bagman13

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Awesome find Bagman13. Definitely got my vote for Banner.

 

[bigrush828]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Hello TNetters! I havent been on in a while because I haven't had anything to post up to today. I decided to scratch around a little overhang that I discovered and think that I scored My best point, and best Christmas present to myself ever! My hands are still shaking! It's a very nice material for my area! Merry Christmas everyone!

***update.....I think it could be a Wheeler Recurvate or Wheeler Excurvate?

KILLER KILLER KILLER find! Can't wait to go and dig with you. Maybe I will find a "whole Creek" point...haha. I know you are normally jealous of my finds, but this blows them all out of the water. Amazing.

 

[Bagman13]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Hello TNetters! I havent been on in a while because I haven't had anything to post up to today. I decided to scratch around a little overhang that I discovered and think that I scored My best point, and best Christmas present to myself ever! My hands are still shaking! It's a very nice material for my area! Merry Christmas everyone!

***update.....I think it could be a Wheeler Recurvate or Wheeler Excurvate?

*******I've added a few more pics********

I've really appreciate everyone's input and votes!

 

[Bagman13]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Hi Everyone......I'm still trying to figure out the correct way to post.....I added several more pics, but they are towards the bottom of the chain.....

Thanks.

 

[Neanderthal]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Hi Everyone......I'm still trying to figure out the correct way to post.....I added several more pics, but they are towards the bottom of the chain.....

Thanks.

Great pics. The material is either Reeds, or Pierson. Wednesday would be a good day for me if you'd like to drop by the museum. Give me a ring.

 

[Keokukjeff]

Awesome find!
I cant say any more then stated above except a Rare find for the Calf Creek type
I have yet to find one from the green Reeds Spring chert-I do have a blue color one.
One reason I find it interesting is because I live in N.W.Ark and have found a few of the Calf Creek type-it will be something to look forward to finding maybe some day......

 

[Bagman13]

Re: My Best Find Ever!

Hi Everyone......I'm still trying to figure out the correct way to post.....I added several more pics, but they are towards the bottom of the chain.....

Thanks.

Great pics. The material is either Reeds, or Pierson. Wednesday would be a good day for me if you'd like to drop by the museum. Give me a ring.


****I'll look forward to seeing you at the museum on Wednesday

 

[Bagman13]

Awesome find!
I cant say any more then stated above except a Rare find for the Calf Creek type
I have yet to find one from the green Reeds Spring chert-I do have a blue color one.
One reason I find it interesting is because I live in N.W.Ark and have found a few of the Calf Creek type-it will be something to look forward to finding maybe some day......

Thanks to you and Neanderthal for the material id. I love the green material of this point. I've never seen the blue, but could imagine that it would be just as nice.

NW Arkansas is interesting. I really don't have a good place to hunt here. I've got way more partials than wholes. I was very lucky yesterday

 

[darkwing_66]

congrats. sweet its a calf creek thats been reworked

 

[naturegirl]

BANNER!!!! yes! Merry christmas bagman!

looks awsome up there