✅ SOLVED muzzleloader date please

[steelheadwill]

Hi Everyone,
pulled this out from aside a stone wall, searched in vain for additional parts,
neither any wood or metal found nearby.
.58 smoothbore, barrel is 40".
Doesn't have any visible marks, but who knows what electrolysis might yeild.
That's why I'm posting, does it appear to be a cheapo percussion,
or something that should be investigated further.
Found the trade era backing plate the day before this, but 30 miles away

Thanks for looking and HH All

 

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[NOLA_Ken]

My first thought, based on the shape of the drum, it could be a US Model 1861 barrel. I'll say this though, I'd imagine the lock plate and trigger group have to be nearby since the screw is still in the tang.



Is the wall by a field that has been plowed at any time? A farmer might have brought it up with a plow and just pitched it where you found it, the rest of it could still be in the field......

 

[releventchair]

Careful dismissing percussion as cheapo. They have history too.
There were conversions from flint to percussion also with smooth bores,during civil war. The drum you show for nipple just gets run into touch hole,even original lock plate could be reworked. The find you show has multiple barrel bands, that makes it interesting and i,m sure they will help. They suggest military to me.
Neat find, and i really like the serpent side plate.

 

[kuger]

Thats awesome!I found one laying in a creek this year.That side furniture is outstanding too!!!!Ya dont see those not broke very often

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The flat-bodied iron barrel-bands are a distinguishing characteristic of the US Springfield Model-1855 and Model-1861 rifle. I'm sure, because the first rifle I ever dug was a US Model-1855, so I still remember even the small details of it. Before and after those two models, the barrel-bands had a different shape. Those bands are definitely not from a foriegn-made percussion .58 rifle either.

On the Model-1855, the sight was located well-forward of the breech. On the Model-1861, it was very close to the breech end. Upon very-close examination, I can see the sight-base at the breech end on your find. (The sight itself is missing.) So I believe your find is definitely a Springfield Model-1861 rifle.

 

[Power Guy]

I think the time era NOLA pointed out seems to coinside with my thoughts. I have an 1863 Sharps (3 band) and your photo looks very much like what I have.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Well as I thought, and CannonballGuy has now confirmed you've got a pretty nice musket barrel there.....I'd scour the area and see if any more of it turns up.

 

[steelheadwill]

Thanks Everyone,
I wasn't dismissing til I heard from members who are 'in the know'..
Didn't even know the piece the nipple screwed into was called a drum.
My thoughts came from the short attachment area and pin that secured it to the stock.
didn't appear to be military grade strength, now I see three barrel bands and the lock & backing plates
would make it secure. The bands are just strapping, no screws.
The flat area shown in pic 5 above seems to correspond to the sight of the 1861 Ken.
I've been looking at all the US military issues, seems that all .58s had rifled barrels, I looked closely and this one is smooth.
Possibly the rifling wore and rusted away? bore still measures right around .58.
I'll include a pic of the end view of breech shape.
There is a field on the other side of the stone wall and the barrel may be a throwaway.
going back today to check the area again.
Regarding the serpent plate, this was found in a dense iron pit I'm clearing, no visible foundation, just small brick fragments scattered in the dirt, and lots of 1700-1750 relics and coins. The serpent design is indicative of an early Indian trade musket.
"" French fur traders and later the British supplied their Indian clients with smoothbore muskets both as gifts and in trade for pelts. Those flintlock muskets, which were universally called by their French name "fusils," generally were lighter and more slender than contemporary military muskets, were of .60 caliber (24 gauge). They had an oversize trigger guard, a flat brass butt plate attached with nails, and a side plate of a coiled sea serpent."
Thanks for everyones input !

 

[steelheadwill]

The flat-bodied iron barrel-bands are a distinguishing characteristic of the US Springfield Model-1855 and Model-1861 rifle. I'm sure, because the first rifle I ever dug was a US Model-1855, so I still remember even the small details of it. Before and after those two models, the barrel-bands had a different shape. Those bands are definitely not from a foriegn-made percussion .58 rifle either.

On the Model-1855, the sight was located well-forward of the breech. On the Model-1861, it was very close to the breech end. Upon very-close examination, I can see the sight-base at the breech end on your find. (The sight itself is missing.) So I believe your find is definitely a Springfield Model-1861 rifle.

Thanks Everyone, your messages came in while I was out checking the barrel for rifling,
it must be worn/rusted away.
Cannonballguy,
Do you know if any markings would be present on the barrel or just on the lock ?
now I'm motivated to go check for more. Best wishes all

 

[releventchair]

I have a fusil with a serpent, a repro though,as mentioned yours is in great shape. I don,t know if my friend knew the model either but he showed me the smooth bore his family kept from the war. They were there!. And saw use after. Have fun.

 

[l.cutler]

There would have been a date on top of the barrel just forward of the tang, and some proof marks on the left side of the barrel. In that condition they may not be visible.

 

[steelheadwill]

There would have been a date on top of the barrel just forward of the tang, and some proof marks on the left side of the barrel. In that condition they may not be visible.

Thanks, I will check for these