More Bigscoop Tidbit

[bigscoop]

Another Bigscoop Tidbit;


Here's one for that I have been keeping to myself, this again about the narration.
How many of you believe the details in regards to the involvement of Morriss? Well, I got some bad news for you, you've been hoodwinked! Think not......


So let me ask you, how did Beale allegedly become inspired to arrive at the Morriss establishment? Answer, he allegedly came to arrive at the Morriss establishment due to the men in his party having suggested it. That's how he came to allegedly arrive there.


Now recall, the part about the cave, to which all in the party knew, including Beale. Hang on because this is going to go somewhere and it's going to get good and very revealing.


In the narration it is claimed that Morriss knew nothing about Beale's origin, where he lived, etc. But this, my friends, isn't true.


When Beale visited Morriss how is it that Morriss knew the men with them, even where they lived, “near Richmond?” How is it that Beale, along with the other men in his party, who Morriss obviously knew, knew about the alleged cave? How could Beale know about the cave if he wasn't from the region?


Morriss knew Jackson, Jackson knew Beale, but Morriss didn't know Beale, despite the fact that everyone in the region allegedly knew Morriss, Beale had been to the cave before and knew of it, he knew Jackson, but he didn't know of Morriss who also knew Jackson,....you see where all of this is leading, yes?


Risque and Beale hold duel, Risque knew Jackson, was his aid-dcamp, a Major at New Orleans. Beale knew Jackson, was at New Orleans and, yes, this IS the same Beale of Beale's Sharpshooters. Risque knew Morriss, Beale didn't?


Giles Ward was J.B. Ward's father. Giles knew Risque and Jackson, even using Risque's influence to try to obtain his son's acceptance to West Point. Risque knew Beale, Jackson knew Beale, Giles and J.B. Ward knew both Risque and Jackson, but they didn't know Beale?


In the Otey/Buford family lineages you will discover the name Beale, this being the sister of Thomas Beale, the same Thomas Beale who had duel with Risque, the same Thomas Beale who knew Morriss, the same Thomas Beale who was at New Orleans, the same Thomas Beale who knew Jackson, ect., ect, ect., and yet Morriss didn't know anything about Thomas Beale? How, dare is that even possible? It isn't.


So now when you think about the details in the narration regarding that Morriss/Beale relationship you might want to rethink just how much of those details might be true and just how much of those details might have been selectively left out. Truth is simply this, there is ZERO chance that Morriss didn't know all there was to know about Thomas Beale. He sure knew a lot about the rest of the party members, even where they lived, and sure knew quite a bit about him, his reputation, and his establishment.


Speaking of that establishment, how does a man who had suffered such severe reversals afford to operate such a plush establishment anyway? So there you go, some cold hard facts and curiosities for you to think about and to really consider. Quite clearly, the author knew a great deal more then he disclosed in that publication, regardless if it was all selective fiction or if there is a measure of truth to the narration and it's character, TJ Beale.

"The truth is in the details, always."

 

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[ECS]

Pascal Buford owner of the TAVERN, also knew Beale , and was present at the banquet held for Jackson in Lynchburg by Risqué and others, and Jackson stayed at the home of Thomas Jefferson who also was in attendance- but NO Beale was there.
It always goes back to this Risqué extended bloodline which includes the Bufords, Oteys, Hutters, Wards, Kennerlys, Hancocks, Shermans, and Earlys.

 

[bigscoop]

.... but NO Beale was there.

How do we know that? And, for that matter, why would he be? Fact is we just don't know where he was at for sure? Just because he isn't referenced in that article doesn't mean he wasn't there.

 

[ECS]

Considering the notoriety of the action of BEALE's SHARPSHOOTERS during the Battle of New Orleans , if he was at that banquet, he would have been mentioned.

 

[bigscoop]

Considering the notoriety of the action of BEALE's SHARPSHOOTERS during the Battle of New Orleans , if he was at that banquet, he would have been mentioned.

We don't know that. That article was about Jackson's visit to Lynchburg with references to some of the people he entertained while there. And again, if he was living in New Orleans why would Beale even be there? So the premise that Beale wasn't referenced as having attended carries no weight at all as there was no reason whatsoever for him to even be in Lynchburg or in attendance at the function.

 

[releventchair]

So , why didn't Morris pick the lock then peek in the box five minutes after Beale left after depositing it with him and wait so many years after forgetting about it?
Unless.....he had no desire ,or reason to be curious.

 

[ECS]

We don't know that. That article was about Jackson's visit to Lynchburg with references to some of the people he entertained while there. And again, if he was living in New Orleans why would Beale even be there? So the premise that Beale wasn't referenced as having attended carries no weight at all as there was no reason whatsoever for him to even be in Lynchburg or in attendance at the function.

There is no evidence that Thomas Beale ever left New Orleans, be it to organize a buffalo hunt, go to Santa Fe , go to Virginia, stay at Buford's Tavern to bury a treasure vault.
As you stated so well, there was NO REASON whatsoever for him to be in Lynchburg...
...except as a character in a dime novel.
The banquet was held , November 7,1815, and as mentioned, Jackson stayed at the home of Thomas Jefferson, there is no evidence that he stayed at the home of Robert Morriss as mentioned in the Beale Papers.
Unless, of course, Robert and Sarah Morriss catered this affair.

 

[bigscoop]

There is no evidence that Thomas Beale ever left New Orleans, be it to organize a buffalo hunt, go to Santa Fe , go to Virginia, stay at Buford's Tavern to bury a treasure vault.
As you stated so well, there was NO REASON whatsoever for him to be in Lynchburg...
...except as a character in a dime novel.
The banquet was held , November 7,1815, and as mentioned, Jackson stayed at the home of Thomas Jefferson, there is no evidence that he stayed at the home of Robert Morriss as mentioned in the Beale Papers.
Unless, of course, Robert and Sarah Morriss catered this affair.

There is no evidence that Beale was always in New Orleans after moving there either. By the same token, there is no evidence whatsoever that the misadventures of the Hutters, Kennerlys, Earlys, Hancocks, Oteys, etc., had anything at all to do with the narration or its details since none are ever referenced. There is no evidence whatsoever that the author simply plucked the name Thomas J. Beale out of thin air for use as his fictional character in his fictional dime novel either but it doesn't keep you from insisting that was indeed the case. So your point?

 

[bigscoop]

"For those of you who wish to entertain such notions", let me toss you a bone.

In 1812 the Secret Service Budget was $50'000, none of this money being used for such things as bodyguards as it is today. So, what was it's purpose? In that same year the President was encouraged to give this entire budget to just one man in exchange for a series of incriminating letters, or intelligence that was deemed to be vital to national security.

Interesting enough, John Marshall offered his opinion on the matter of intelligence gathering and the means in which to it when he cited that the gathering of intelligence was vital to a "general's" ability to make decisions. So when we consider the Secret Service during the period there are a couple of things to realized, first, that there was indeed a budget for covert operations, and second, that generals had access to that budget and in its decided use.

There has always been question as to how Morriss, a man who had fallen on such severe reversals, could afford to operate such a plush establishment? And as displayed before when picking the narration's text apart and evaluating it, we learn that at least some of the men in the party knew Morriss, this allegedly being how Beale came to arrive at the Morriss residence at their suggestion. We also learn in the narration that Morriss knew the men who had accompanied Beale to his establishment when he cited that they lived, "near Richmond." So clearly Morriss had a relationship with at least some of the men in the alleged party, this alone making perfectly clear that he wasn't completely blind to their activities and identities as the author's narration attempts to suggest, so no doubt he certainly knew more about Beale then the author disclosed in the narration. To these things there is absolutely no doubt.

So, how would all of the above be possible? Right from the very start we are told that Beale and his associates set out to recruit at least thirty men, their participation dependent on their agreeing to certain terms and signing contracts to such. Then in the narration we are told of these thirty men having comfortably wintered in Spanish Santa fe, which draws into question just how they had managed that? Not very likely unless they were invited/expected. And then of course this begs the question by what means means might they have been invited/expected? And from here you can sort of see where all this might just be heading.

Now consider that perfect chronological order between the dates of deposit and the signing and ratification of the Adams Onis Treaty, also the "exact same" ten-year term that was attached to that treaty. When all of this is considered the obvious question then becomes; what would cause the military to send thirty men into Santa Fe. for the purpose of transferring wealth, the same exact amount that was to be paid out in that same treaty's spoliation claims?

Now I realize some of you may think I'm way out in left field with all of this but this theory has far more directly connecting evidence then any other theory out there, and in fact, Witcher is the only name in the narration remaining that I can't draw a clear line on, this mainly being due to the fact that there is so little on him. Still don't know how he figures into things but I think I'm starting to get warmer?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

We don't know that. That article was about Jackson's visit to Lynchburg with references to some of the people he entertained while there. And again, if he was living in New Orleans why would Beale even be there? So the premise that Beale wasn't referenced as having attended carries no weight at all as there was no reason whatsoever for him to even be in Lynchburg or in attendance at the function.

FACTS - War of 1812 HISTORY: Beale's Sharp-shooters (Thomas Beale, Sr.) LOST in the woods at night, stumbled into BRIT encampment, & a battle ensued. MANY Sharp-shooters died, MAJORITY captured & POW on a BRIT ship; Capt. Thomas Beale, Sr. made it out of the woods alive...

 

[TN_Guest1523]

There is no evidence that Beale was always in New Orleans after moving there either. By the same token, there is no evidence whatsoever that the misadventures of the Hutters, Kennerlys, Earlys, Hancocks, Oteys, etc., had anything at all to do with the narration or its details since none are ever referenced. There is no evidence whatsoever that the author simply plucked the name Thomas J. Beale out of thin air for use as his fictional character in his fictional dime novel either but it doesn't keep you from insisting that was indeed the case. So your point?

One thing I have found over the years is that it was very common for people to live in New Orleans in the winter time and live in a Northern part of the United States in the summer that was not as hot and humid as New Orleans . This was a common practice without the invention of AC at the time . Jackson had a place in Waveland MS about 1815 after the battle of New Orleans .

Morriss moved to the area Possibly after Beale moved to New Orleans say 1806-1809 and the two men with Beale had been at the hotel and possibly had put the home on the Hotel Register as we know from Morriss Beale did not put his home on the register, but Morriss was sure he was from some western part of Virginia .

I am looking at other property owned by Beale in St Louis . It would not be but about 10 days to get there from New Orleans in about 1819 or so . Celeste Beale's family had a lot of land up north too . With the people working for Beale at his office and at the Hotel it would seem he was able to do a lot of traveling in the United States at the cost of the taxpayer too .

 

[bigscoop]

One thing I have found over the years is that it was very common for people to live in New Orleans in the winter time and live in a Northern part of the United States in the summer that was not as hot and humid as New Orleans . This was a common practice without the invention of AC at the time . Jackson had a place in Waveland MS about 1815 after the battle of New Orleans .

Morriss moved to the area Possibly after Beale moved to New Orleans say 1806-1809 and the two men with Beale had been at the hotel and possibly had put the home on the Hotel Register as we know from Morriss Beale did not put his home on the register, but Morriss was sure he was from some western part of Virginia .

I am looking at other property owned by Beale in St Louis . It would not be but about 10 days to get there from New Orleans in about 1819 or so . Celeste Beale's family had a lot of land up north too . With the people working for Beale at his office and at the Hotel it would seem he was able to do a lot of traveling in the United States at the cost of the taxpayer too .

You're still operating from the narration, verbatim, and we already know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is full of certain inaccuracies and deceptions. Not a chance that Morriss, and/or the author, didn't know everything there was to know about the main character in that story, the same being true of the party and its alleged activities, be these pure fiction created by the author or details relating to some other true event. Very clearly, Morriss and/or the author, knew all there was to know about Beale, the party, the presented ciphers, and the alleged events, be them either pure fiction or relating to some other true event. None of this can be in question any longer. It's all in the narration, in the details of that narration.

If the men in the alleged party knew Morriss well enough to recommend him to play protector/executor of their alleged wealth then VERY-VERY CLEARLY, "THEY KNEW HIM WELL ENOUGH TO TRUST HIM."
And, if Morriss even knew where some of these men lived, men who didn't stay with him, then "VERY-VERY CLEARLY, MORRISS KNEW OF THOSE MEN."
And if Morriss knew those men well enough to even know where they lived then he certainly knew more about Beale, the man who did stay with him on at least two separate extended stays, a man who "men in the party knew well enough to entrust this same wealth to his charge," then there can be no doubt whatsoever that Morriss knew this same man VERY WELL, far better "then what is narrated in the publication."

So quite clearly the narration was either a complete fabrication on the author's part or he wasn't telling all that he and Morriss knew. You decide, but it absolutely has to be one or the other. "PERIOD!"

Disregard the letters as they have been conclusively proven to contain several, "pure fabrications."

 

[Cryptography]

One thing I have found over the years is that it was very common for people to live in New Orleans in the winter time and live in a Northern part of the United States in the summer that was not as hot and humid as New Orleans . This was a common practice without the invention of AC at the time . Jackson had a place in Waveland MS about 1815 after the battle of New Orleans .

Morriss moved to the area Possibly after Beale moved to New Orleans say 1806-1809 and the two men with Beale had been at the hotel and possibly had put the home on the Hotel Register as we know from Morriss Beale did not put his home on the register, but Morriss was sure he was from some western part of Virginia .

I am looking at other property owned by Beale in St Louis . It would not be but about 10 days to get there from New Orleans in about 1819 or so . Celeste Beale's family had a lot of land up north too . With the people working for Beale at his office and at the Hotel it would seem he was able to do a lot of traveling in the United States at the cost of the taxpayer too .

I need that information when you get it please!

 

[Cryptography]

You're still operating from the narration, verbatim, and we already know beyond any shadow of a doubt that it is full of certain inaccuracies and deceptions. Not a chance that Morriss, and/or the author, didn't know everything there was to know about the main character in that story, the same being true of the party and its alleged activities, be these pure fiction created by the author or details relating to some other true event. Very clearly, Morriss and/or the author, knew all there was to know about Beale, the party, the presented ciphers, and the alleged events, be them either pure fiction or relating to some other true event. None of this can be in question any longer. It's all in the narration, in the details of that narration.

If the men in the alleged party knew Morriss well enough to recommend him to play protector/executor of their alleged wealth then VERY-VERY CLEARLY, "THEY KNEW HIM WELL ENOUGH TO TRUST HIM."
And, if Morriss even knew where some of these men lived, men who didn't stay with him, then "VERY-VERY CLEARLY, MORRISS KNEW OF THOSE MEN."
And if Morriss knew those men well enough to even know where they lived then he certainly knew more about Beale, the man who did stay with him on at least two separate extended stays, a man who "men in the party knew well enough to entrust this same wealth to his charge," then there can be no doubt whatsoever that Morriss knew this same man VERY WELL, far better "then what is narrated in the publication."

So quite clearly the narration was either a complete fabrication on the author's part or he wasn't telling all that he and Morriss knew. You decide, but it absolutely has to be one or the other. "PERIOD!"

It is very important to start with the original story line and move from there out to were you are now. I do agree with you that the area of stated mining was not the mining place if indeed they were mining. Jean has been working with the recovery theory and it is possible that it may have been Lafitte or LeBlanc's Gold that was recovered and moved to Virginia.

 

[ECS]

...

Now consider that perfect chronological order between the dates of deposit and the signing and ratification of the Adams Onis Treaty, also the "exact same" ten-year term that was attached to that treaty. When all of this is considered the obvious question then becomes; what would cause the military to send thirty men into Santa Fe. for the purpose of transferring wealth, the same exact amount that was to be paid out in that same treaty's spoliation claims?

Now I realize some of you may think I'm way out in left field with all of this but this theory has far more directly connecting evidence then any other theory out there, and in fact, Witcher is the only name in the narration remaining that I can't draw a clear line on, this mainly being due to the fact that there is so little on him. Still don't know how he figures into things but I think I'm starting to get warmer?

In 1821, Major James Beverly Risqué, well aware of the Adams- Onis Treaty, was seeking from the Federal government an appointment in the Florida territory. Although he used his political connections, he was highly disappointed when his request was turned down, and remained a sore spot that was known throughout his family.
Upon his death, his library and personal papers (including letters concerning the Adams-Onis affair) were inherited by Giles Ward, James Beverly's father.
No secret from where the "deposit" dates were derived.
As discussed on another thread, Major William Witcher and Col Issac Coles were well known in Lynchburg for their activities during the Revolution, and Rev Charles Green Clay was a well known religious leader in Lynchburg.
It was descendants of these men who complained first to Rowland Buford, Bedford County Clerk, about Ward's use of their names in the 1885 Beale Papers dime novel. Eventually, all unsold copies were destroyed in a fire.
Max Guggenheimer, also mentioned in the job pamphlet, was the only one alive a time of publication and sold copies at his store.
Max did not complain about the usage of his name.

 

[bigscoop]

It is very important to start with the original story line and move from there out to were you are now. I do agree with you that the area of stated mining was not the mining place if indeed they were mining. Jean has been working with the recovery theory and it is possible that it may have been Lafitte or LeBlanc's Gold that was recovered and moved to Virginia.

We know that we have a perfect chronological order between the Adams Onis Treaty signing and ratification dates and the dates of the alleged Bealle deposits, this is all fact. Also as is fact, we know that this treaty contained the same exact ten-year term as that in the narration. And last, we know that the spoliation terms outlined in this same treaty present roughly the exact value as the total sum of the alleged deposits in the Beale narration. All of this is well documented.



Now then, we know for a fact that the United States held a Secret Service budget and that this budget was accessible by “presidents” and “generals” to be used in the gathering of vital intelligence. Beale, Laffite, in particular, both knew Jackson very well, this all being due to New Orleans. We also know that Laffite was dependent on the government's good graces after the war of 1812 in which he received his pardon, the return of his property hanging in the balance.


Shortly after this, and at the exact same time that Beale is recruiting his alleged party, Laffite relocates to Galveston Island, the disputed region, where he continues to ravage Spanish shipping in the Gulf. At this same time insurgents begin to press the Texas region. Also, as contained in those infamous memoirs, we are told of a meeting that took place in New Orleans in the company of unidentified US officials, this being the same meeting where it is contained in the memoirs that a, “corporation was formed.” And it is from all of this that lead to Laffite relocating to Galveston Island.


And what else do we know about that chronological order? Well, we know that if we use the information provided in the memoirs then we know that the two dates involving large money transfers in those memoirs also coincide perfectly with the dates in that chronological order. But perhaps even more important in all of this is that we know the events taking place in Texas were identical to those events that the US had used in Florida in gaining solid foothold there, Jackson being at the very center of these Florida events.


OK, this is where it really starts to get good. We now know from extensive research that the core foundation/philosophy behind espionage is “exactly” as described in the memoirs, to take from the enemy his own assets and strengths and use them against him, and also to “construct, explore, ect.” All of this clearly outlined in the history of espionage and also in the memoirs, these same exact philosophies also being adopted by Laffite and his new corporation during that alleged meeting with US officials in attendance when alleged new corporation was formed.


OK, thus far everything is is an “exact” match, the dates, the philosophy, the ten-year term, the wealth, etc., etc. But how is it that, if true, that the United States paid the spoliation claims and the Beale party's wealth allegedly came from somewhere else, if they are indeed one in the same? Here's how;


The wealth that Laffite accumulated was indeed Spanish wealth, this wealth being a product of that same philosophy already outlined, or in reality, Spanish wealth that had been accumulated “by the US” during its clandestine operations. So, in essence, the US paid thise spoliation claims with “Spanish money.” This then being why George Graham made his secret visit to Galveston Island.


But now let's look at the political situation encountered at the time. How do you transfer wealth that must remain completely off the books? You can't use military war ships as obviously the risk of exposure and awareness becomes too much of a public and political risk. As we already know sailors on the Enterprise were even keeping diaries. So how, then? We have always wondered why, after the treaty's ratification, Laffite who was clearly on Spanish land, was left to American jurisdiction and expulsion?


D'Onis and Spain knew exactly what was happening at Galveston Island, D'Onis even raising several futile accusations and complaints to that fact. And if he knew it, even had proof of it, then who are we to doubt that it was actually happening? And how is it, that during the treaty's negotiations and eventual signing, that thirty American men were allowed to winter so comfortably in Santa fe? One would hardly think this possible unless it had all been arranged and agreed to beforehand. So what were they doing there and where did their alleged wealth really come from?


We want the truth behind the Beale papers but even after all of the research and all of the exacting detail we simply won't allow ourselves to believe that such an affair was possible, even though that research and history and even D'Onis stands as clear testimony that it was all actually happening, that it did indeed happen.


So here's what I'm suggesting in regards to those two remaining ciphers and to those who desire to crack them, “you now have something extremely credible and very real to work from.”

Again, we can place doubt on this theory and it's sources, but if D'Onis was repeated claim of these very same activities, even presenting proof of such, then who are we to doubt his charges? And in the end, who was the Spanish representative on the other side of said treaty. But follow up and then judge for yourself....to each his own.

 

[bigscoop]

If they are the real deal, then C1, being far too long to only contain an easily found exact location, will also contain some of this theory's details. As for C3, keep in mind that during the period one could walk right up to a president's residence and knock on the door, unlike today. In fact, I think something like the first nine Presidents had no Secret Service protection at all. So with all of this in mind then how easy would it have been to locate random citizens VS individuals that were very well known, whose general whereabouts/residences was also well known? Wouldn't have to be too exacting or up to date with the later ten-years in the passing.

 

[bigscoop]

Think of the Morriss establishment as being something of a safe house and then read the narration's description of that establishment again. It's all right there.

Then, perhaps, "adjust the thinking."

 

[bigscoop]

Your author knew everything there was to know about the detailed theory and those ciphers except one critical thing, which is why he published his narration. and that critical thing that he still didn't possess was that "unintelligible" and "missing piece of paper." Something he knew to have existed and the one critical thing he still required. He even knew "where" to best look for it, which is why the publication was confined to such a small geographical area. And that missing piece of paper, that all goes back to those 19 critical four digit codes in C1.

Sorry fellas, but this is why "we know", without any doubt whatsoever, that nobody has decoded those ciphers with any true degree of accuracy.

 

[bigscoop]

In reference of the United States and the DOI, in the memoirs Laffite maintains that, "when my brother and I sacrificed all that we possessed"......however, "possessed" doesn't mean own, only that "you were in possession of it."

Again, all of this being echoed by the charges/claims of D'Onis.