Mexican vigilantes, battling cartel, take over another town

[Red James Cash]

Mexican vigilantes, battling cartel, take over another town

CBS/AP/ November 17, 2013, 9:10 AM

MORELIA, MexicoVigilantes belonging to a "self-defense" movement took over another town in the Mexican state of Michoacan Saturday amid confrontations that left two people dead and three wounded.

State prosecutor's spokeswoman Magdalena Guzman said the clash took place in a hamlet near the town of Tancitaro, where "self-defense" patrol members occupied the town hall and main square in a bid to kick out the western state's dominant Knights Templar drug cartel.

The Michoacan state government said the vigilantes came from two nearby towns and that police and prosecutors had been sent to Tancitaro.

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Mexico's drug war

Vigilantes, some wearing bandanas or ski masks and carrying assault rifles, could be seen lounging in the town's picturesque square. Soldiers and police stood guard, to prevent further violence.

Investigators are working to determine whether the dead in Saturday's confrontation are vigilantes or Knights Templar gunmen.

Residents in about a half-dozen Michoacan towns have risen up since February to shake off the dominance of the pseudo-religious cartel, which levied heavy and wide-ranging extortion payments on the population.

Authorities have said that some of the vigilantes are supported by a rival drug cartel from the neighboring state of Jalisco, an accusation the self-styled "self-defense" forces deny.

A "Dr. Mireles," described as general counsel for the Citizen's Self Defense Council for Tepalcatepec, said in a video submitted to the Borderland Beat blog that what was happening in Michoacan was "a case of civil, not peaceful, resistance and defense...Fear had crossed the line of what was permissible and imaginary."

He continued: "The failed state was no longer a myth; the loss of political, social, economic and judicial control became undeniable. Citizens and rural people from all social strata organized, armed themselves and decided to confront, using the only means within their reach, the rule of organized crime. Forced by their tragedy, they chose to break the rules to decide their lives and recover their freedom. Every people has a limit."

Hipolito Mora Chavez, described in the same video as the leader of the La Ruana Self Defense Group, said: "I think that the cities are going to do what we are doing, fighting, rising up for their freedom. Because that's what it's all about, freedom, that we no longer had here."

 

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[austin]

Yeah, Mexico is a real paradise to visit these days...

 

[Red James Cash]

Theyre doing the right thing anyway.

 

[Dave44]

Citizens aren't allowed "assault rifles" in Mexico are they? Are the citizens finally getting tired of the Gun control problem that has encouraged the Cartels to take power?

 

[Red James Cash]

Citizens aren't allowed "assault rifles" in Mexico are they? Are the citizens finally getting tired of the Gun control problem that has encouraged the Cartels to take power?

Kind of looks that way doesnt it.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

oh...so now it is weapons control issues that created the drug problem in mexico...

next weapons laws will be blamed for crying babies and old age.

 

[Unclebuck257]

oh...so now it is weapons control issues that created the drug problem in mexico...

next weapons laws will be blamed for crying babies and old age.

pip, As the old saying goes, "When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns"!! That is exactly what happened in Mexico and now the average citizen is tired of being slaughtered and run by the ARMED cartels who don't give a damn about anti gun laws. Now FINALLY, the average citizen is arming him/herself and fighting back! AND YES, It was weapons control laws that allowed the cartels to get this much power in Mexico in certain areas over the civilian population!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

no, that is NOT what happened in mexico...sorry...please attend the local university and try a us-Mexican history class.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Mexico's Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives » Publications » The Federalist Society

Mexico's Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives

Engage Volume 13, Issue 1, March 2012

May 17, 2012
David B. Kopel

Mexico's Federal Law of Firearms and ExplosivesIn recent years, gun control has become an important international issue. For example, some persons have claimed that the gun laws in the United States are responsible for the many homicides perpetrated in Mexico’s drug war.1 The Organization of American States has proposed a gun control treaty for the western hemisphere, which President Obama has urged the U.S. Senate to ratify.2 Currently, the United Nations General Assembly is drafting an international Arms Trade Treaty.3 In contrast to the Bush Administration, the Obama Administration has announced its support for the treaty.

Accordingly, scholars, policy-makers, and concerned citizens around the world are seeking to better understand the gun control laws in different nations. And of course Americans, who often visit Mexico, have an especially important need to understand Mexico’s laws.4

Although Mexico, like the United States and Switzerland, has a federal system of government, gun control laws in Mexico are set by the national government.

Part I of this Article is an English translation of the Mexican Constitution’s guarantee of the right to arms, as well as predecessor versions of the constitutional guarantee.

Part II explains the operation of Mexico’s gun control system, and provides some historical and statistical information about gun ownership in Mexico, and gun smuggling.

I. Constitution of Mexico

Like some other nations in the region,5 Mexico in its constitution guarantees the personal right to arms:

Article 10. The inhabitants of the United Mexican States have a right to arms in their homes, for security and legitimate defense, with the exception of arms prohibited by federal law and those reserved for the exclusive use of the Army, Navy, Air Force, and National Guard. Federal law will determine the cases, conditions, requirements, and places in which the carrying of arms will be authorized to the inhabitants.6

The above language is a revision of the 1917 Constitution, which stated:

Article 10: The inhabitants of the United Mexican States are entitled to have arms of any kind in their possession for their protection and legitimate defense, except such as are expressly forbidden by law, or which the nation may reserve for the exclusive use of the army, navy, or national guard; but they may not carry arms within inhabited places without complying with police regulations.7

The current version replaced “are entitled” with “have a right,” but the right is now limited to the home.

In the 1857 Constitution, there was an explicit right to carry:

Article 10: Every man has the right to have and to carry arms for his security and legitimate defense. The law will indicate which arms are prohibited and the penalty for those that will carry prohibited arms.8

The later versions, besides eliminating the right to carry, phrased the right in gender-neutral language.

II. Mexican Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives

A. Background and Summary of the Law

In the middle of the twentieth century, Mexico was a popular hunting destination for Americans, and Mexican hunters invented a new shooting sport. “Silhouette shooting”—shooting at metal silhouette targets in the shape of game animals—originated in Mexico in the early 1950s. Mexican hunters were looking for ways to sharpen their eyes between hunting seasons, and so began shooting at live animals which had been placed on a high ridgeline, visible in silhouette from hundreds of yards away. Whoever shot the animal would win a prize. American hunters near the Mexican border—most notably the Tucson Rifle Club—adopted the sport, but used life-sized metal targets instead—hence the sport’s name of Siluetas Metalicas.9

In Mexico as in the United States, civil unrest in 1968 led to important new restrictions on firearms. Before then, many types of rifles, shotguns and handguns were freely available. Anti-government student movements, however, scared the government into closing firearms stores, and registering all weapons. The rate of compliance with the registration has been very low.

The most important gun laws are contained in the Federal Law of Firearms and Explosives (Ley Federal de Armas de Fuego y Explosivos). The law establishes a Federal Arms Registry controlled by the Ministry of National Defense.

1. Types of Guns

Article Two of the Federal Law of Firearms allows possession and carrying of handguns (pistolas) in calibers of .380 or less, although some calibers are excluded, most notably .357 magnum and 9mm parabellum. Shotguns (escopetas) are permitted in 12 gauge or smaller. Rifles (same word in English and Spanish) are also permitted, in .30 caliber or smaller.

2. The Permitting System

Gun permits, for a one-year term, are issued by the military department of defense, SEDENA (Secretaría de la Defensa Nacional). The SEDENA subdivision in charge of gun licensing is the Dirección General del Registro Federal de Armas de Fuego y Control de Explosivos.10 In Mexico, the military plays a leading role in domestic law enforcement.

An applicant must belong to a shooting club in order to obtain a permit. If he does, it is straightforward to obtain a permit to own one handgun for home protection.

A person may, in theory, obtain a permit for up to 10 firearms. All guns must be registered with the Ministry of National Defense within 30 days of acquisition. Licensees may only buy ammunition for the caliber of gun for which they are licensed.

To apply for a permit, a person must go to the nearest military base. The military is legally required to issue or reject a license within 50 days of the application. A license applicant must be at least 18 years old, must have fulfilled any obligation of military service, must have the physical and mental capacity to use firearms safely, have no criminal convictions involving firearms, must not be a consumer of drugs, and must have an “upright” way of life.

There is only one firearms store, UCAM (Unidad de Comercialización de Armamento y Municiones). It is owned and operated by the military, and located in Mexico City.

Private sales of long guns are legal, but the buyer must register the gun within 30 days with the military’s arms registry.

By police fiat, possession of firearms above .22 caliber is severely restricted.

A separate license is necessary for the transportation of firearms. Guns in transit must be unloaded and contained in a case.

A special permit for collectors allows the possession of more guns, including military-caliber firearms. The military police frequently inspect gun collectors, to ensure that the arms are stored so as to prevent theft.

The grounds for issuing a carry permit are: a need due to occupation or employment; special circumstances related to one’s place of residence; or other reasonable grounds. A carry permit applicant must also post a bond, and must supply five character references. Farmers and other rural workers are allowed (in theory at least) to carry legal handguns, .22 caliber rifles, and shotguns, as long as they stay outside of urban areas, and obtain a carry license.

But in practice, carry licenses are restricted to the wealthy and the politically connected.11 In a nation of 105 million people, there are only 4,300 carry licenses.

Temporary gun licenses for sporting purposes may be issued to tourists by Mexican Embassies or Consulates. Mexican law provides penalties of 5 to 30 years in prison for tourists who attempt to bring a firearm, or even a single round of ammunition, into Mexico without prior permission. In the past, the law was enforced stringently, even in cases where the violation was accidental, such as a Texan who drove across the border for dinner, and forgot that there was some ammunition in his car.12 In December 1998, however, the Mexican Congress enacted legislation relaxing the law for first-time, unintentional violations involving only a single gun. Now, first-timers will be fined $1,000, but not imprisoned. The exemption does not apply for military weapons or prohibited calibers.

In Mexico, there are no shooting ranges open to the general public. Nor is there any public land for hunting. As a result, the only persons who can hunt are those who can afford to pay an outfitter, or are friends with a landowner.

The Small Arms Survey, an international gun control think tank based in Geneva, estimates that there are about 15,500,000 total firearms in civilian hands in Mexico,13 but acknowledges that the size of the civilian gun stock is very murky.14 About 5,000,000 guns are legally registered.

B. The Cross-Border Trade in Arms

Like the Fourth of July, Cinco de Mayo is closely connected to American guns. The French Emperor Napoleon III, after assuming dictatorial powers in France, began looking for more nations to rule, and so in 1862, he invaded Mexico. Although defeated at the Battle of Puebla on May 5, he eventually deposed Mexico’s President Benito Juárez. Napoleon III proclaimed the Austrian prince Maximilian von Habsburg as Emperor of Mexico. In northern Mexico, Juárez gathered an army of resistance. The United States was a crucial source of arms for the Mexican nationalists. They procured one thousand .44 caliber short rifles (Winchester Model 1866 carbines), as well as 500 rounds of ammunition for every gun. Inscribed with the initials “R.M.” (República de México), the Winchesters are now valuable collector items. They helped the Mexican people win the war, remove the puppet government of Napoleon III, and re-establish the Mexican republic. The victory is commemorated every year on the fifth of May.

Today, however, some American guns play a harmful role in Mexico. The United States government is currently providing extensive assistance to the Mexican government to help Mexico deal with the problem of violent narcotraficantes. At present, Mexico suffers from a tremendous homicide problem, resulting from Mexican President Felipe Calderón’s escalation of the drug war. From 2007 to 2008, drug war homicides rose over one hundred percent, to 5,612.15 While most of the fatalities are the narcotraficantes themselves—killed by the police or by gang rivals—innocent civilians and police have also been killed. As a Congressional Research Service report explained: “[T]he government’s crackdown, as well as turf wars among rival DTOs [drug trafficking organizations], has fueled an escalation in violence throughout the country, including states along the U.S.-Mexico border.”16

During the Clinton Administration, the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (BATF) initiated a program called Operation Forward Trace.17 United States law requires that licensed firearms dealers keep registration forms (Federal Form 4473) of their customers. Especially targeting gun buyers with Hispanic names, BATF examined the 4473 forms for federally-licensed firearms dealers in southwestern states, and then investigated the customers. BATF paid particular attention to customers who had purchased self-loading rifles or low-cost handguns. (In late 2001, the Bureau’s name was changed to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (BATFE).)

A few months after George W. Bush became President, the Mexican and American Attorneys General unveiled a joint program under which Mexican law enforcement officials could ask the BATFE to conduct computerized traces of guns that had been seized by Mexican law enforcement. That program is now known as “Project Gunrunner,” and is operated by American law enforcement officials in Mexico and in American border states.18

Project Gunrunner has become part of the Mérida Initiative, by which the U.S. government provides extensive financial support to law enforcement organizations in the Central America, with the bulk of the funds going to Mexico. Most of the Mérida money is used to purchase equipment.

Another cooperative Mexican-American project is operation Armas Cruzadas, in which several American law enforcement agencies19 work with their Mexican counterparts to interdict arms smugglers. In addition, United States anti-drug programs are also tasked with preventing gun-running into Mexico.20

One more anti-smuggling program is a joint effort of the federal BATFE and the National Shooting Sports Foundation (the trade association for the American firearms industry). “Don’t Lie for the Other Guy” trains firearms store owners and employees how to spot “straw purchasers.” A straw purchaser is someone with a clean record who can legally buy guns, but who is illegally buying the gun on behalf of an ineligible person—such as a boyfriend with a felony conviction, or an arms smuggler.21

 

[Unclebuck257]

pip, very interesting read and thank you for saving me the cost of a class at a university. By posting this in detail, you have basically made my point. Any city, state, or country can have laws written on the books that look good, but without something like our SEcond Ammendment, it is almost IMPOSSIBLE for the citizens of said location to actually own a weapon when a corrupt military or gov't controls who can and can't take advantage of those laws. I don't know if you've ever actually been to Mexico and maybe you have, but I have definitely been there many times, both in border towns and in the interior towns. The only people who have any weapons are those with influence and the wealthy. Lets be clear here too, I personally do not consider a 22 pistol much of a weapon. A single shotgun, although better than nothing at all, is not a weapon of choice for going against automatic weapons either! When the only place to legally buy any weapon is gov't run, controlled, and operated and the only place to obtain a permit to purchase that weapon has the same BS attached to it, then you do not and will not, have an armed citizenry. You won't even have a citizenry where more than a mere few may have any weapon at all. pip, you need to stop listening to that liberal spin, open your eyes and go see for yourself what life for these Mexican peasants is really like, when run by a corrupt, controlling gov't. After you do that and see for yourself how they live and under what conditions they live, and the fear they live under, then and only then will you HONESTLY have anything to say that's worthwhile on the subject of Mexican gun laws.

 

[packerbacker]

Did you read what you posted?
By police fiat, possession of firearms above .22 caliber is severely restricted.
In Mexico, there are no shooting ranges open to the general public. Nor is there any public land for hunting. As a result, the only persons who can hunt are those who can afford to pay an outfitter, or are friends with a landowner.
But in practice, carry licenses are restricted to the wealthy and the politically connected.11 In a nation of 105 million people, there are only 4,300 carry licenses

And on and on. YES, only the bad guys have guns except in rare cases. That's why they get away with what they do. knock, knock. anyone home?
heck, we have over 30,000 concealed carry permits in California alone.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

insanity rules...thank you for proving my point...selective reading is a bad habit, not a talent.

 

[Jim in Idaho]

Did you read what you posted?
By police fiat, possession of firearms above .22 caliber is severely restricted.
In Mexico, there are no shooting ranges open to the general public. Nor is there any public land for hunting. As a result, the only persons who can hunt are those who can afford to pay an outfitter, or are friends with a landowner.
But in practice, carry licenses are restricted to the wealthy and the politically connected.11 In a nation of 105 million people, there are only 4,300 carry licenses

And on and on. YES, only the bad guys have guns except in rare cases. That's why they get away with what they do. knock, knock. anyone home?
heck, we have over 30,000 concealed carry permits in California alone.

Yup, PB...it's a real paradise down there. In fact, it's so nice, thirty million of the residents came to the United States to convince us to go down there.
Jim

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

just can't keep on track eh?

while I can teach the class on us-Mexican history...this is not the place education is respected.

foreigners are not allowed weapons in mexico...Mexican are not allowed to take their weapons out side...nor are they allowed certain military style weapons....
like most laws, it is based in experience.

you speak as authorities on US- Mexican issues, but have never seen the border...let along traveled south.

 

[Dave44]

just can't keep on track eh?

while I can teach the class on us-Mexican history...this is not the place education is respected.

foreigners are not allowed weapons in mexico...Mexican are not allowed to take their weapons out side...nor are they allowed certain military style weapons....
like most laws, it is based in experience.

you speak as authorities on US- Mexican issues, but have never seen the border...let along traveled south.

Did you say the laws were based in experience? Lolooolllloooll

 

[Dave44]

I went to college a few miles from that border. How bout you, pip? Not that it matters. You only said it trying to show how ignorant we are.
But your posts on the laws in Mexico show us, absolutely we want nothing to do with that sort of thing!

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

just can't keep on track eh?

while I can teach the class on us-Mexican history...this is not the place education is respected.

foreigners are not allowed weapons in mexico...Mexican are not allowed to take their weapons out side...nor are they allowed certain military style weapons....
like most laws, it is based in experience.

you speak as authorities on US- Mexican issues, but have never seen the border...let along traveled south.

Maybe because the experience it is based on is when they obtained weapons they had a tendency to overthrow oppressive governments....


We will NOT go quitely into the night!

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

yes dave...EXPERIENCE.
during the Spanish , and until 1925, the supposed end of the Mexican revolution, the northern states of mexico, unlike the southern disarmed states, people were allowed to have military grade weapons in abundance....to "protect themselves from the "Indians", who just didn't want Catholics or Spaniards or any type in their communities.
this includes yaqui, seri, apache, many other tribes, had proven time an again that they did not want the invaders around their women and children.
this continued event is called experience...to protect the northern states, long ignored in material supply and governance from mexico city, or Seville...
the northern states peons carried weapons...after the Mexican revolution, a bloody and expensive experience, the newly found Mexican government banned the use of weapons...to control bandits, revolutionaries in abundance, and other questionably activities by US rails roads, mining interests and Mormons...

it had nothing to do with a repressive government... someone who claims to be military intelligence should know this...
{ I did not post the laws of mexico..I posted an intelligent review of the history of weapons in the united Mexican states.}

 

[packerbacker]

It is legal for non-residents to take guns into mexico but there are hoops to jump through. many us citizens hunt there. might add that note to your curriculum.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

yes dave...EXPERIENCE.
during the Spanish , and until 1925, the supposed end of the Mexican revolution, the northern states of mexico, unlike the southern disarmed states, people were allowed to have military grade weapons in abundance....to "protect themselves from the "Indians", who just didn't want Catholics or Spaniards or any type in their communities.
this includes yaqui, seri, apache, many other tribes, had proven time an again that they did not want the invaders around their women and children.
this continued event is called experience...to protect the northern states, long ignored in material supply and governance from mexico city, or Seville...
the northern states peons carried weapons...after the Mexican revolution, a bloody and expensive experience, the newly found Mexican government banned the use of weapons...to control bandits, revolutionaries in abundance, and other questionably activities by US rails roads, mining interests and Mormons...

it had nothing to do with a repressive government... someone who claims to be military intelligence should know this...

Pip be very careful.

We will NOT go quitely into the night!