Medallion (??) with eagle and Charleston merchant name

[DownNDirty]

I dug this one yesterday. At first I thought it was the face of a pocket watch because of the hole in the center, but now I don't think so. The hole looks like it was made after the item was manufactured; it was either punctured from back to front or something was pulled out from the front. I have Googled "Smith & Robbins" to death but can't find anything on them. I have been told by a couple of knowledgeable friends that the style of eagle dates to around the 1820s/30s.

My main question is what was this used for? Could it have been a rosette, token, or something else? It's stamped brass without a back. Also if anyone has info on Smith and Robbins that would be very helpful. Thanks!

 

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[Bramblefind]

I found a little info on Smith & Robbins in Charleston. There are newspaper references (lists of merchandise arriving by ship for various merchants) showing from about 1823-1830.

I found two ads from 1825-1826 which I will attach here.

In the 1830-1831 Charleston Directory I did not see a listing for Smith & Robbins but there is a listing for:

Robbins, E & C Wholesale Hardware 305 King St.

and also in that directory is a listing for:

Smith, Harris & Co. Wholesale Hardware, 313 King St.

 

[DownNDirty]

I found a little info on Smith & Robbins in Charleston. There are newspaper references (lists of merchandise arriving by ship for various merchants) showing from about 1823-1830.

I found two ads from 1825-1826 which I will attach here.

In the 1830-1831 Charleston Directory I did not see a listing for Smith & Robbins but there is a listing for:

Robbins, E & C Wholesale Hardware 305 King St.

and also in that directory is a listing for:

Smith, Harris & Co. Wholesale Hardware, 313 King St.

Excellent information-that is very helpful. Thanks!

 

[digging440yrs]

Might be Samuel E. Robbins and Horace Smith [ smith & Wesson } ---worth checking out

 

[DCMatt]

I find them - using info from Bramblefinds post - in a reprint of the late teens and early 1820's Charleston City Directory.

https://books.google.com/books?id=t...ge&q=313 king st. hardware charleston&f=false

DCMatt

 

[digging440yrs]

They sold guns in the hardware store ----

 

[DownNDirty]

They sold guns in the hardware store ----View attachment 1414304

But they were in Connecticut, not Charleston.

 

[digging440yrs]

Charleston in 1820s, moved north and all worked together 1840s thru 1850s, Smith, Wesson, Robbins, Henry etc. ----check this site out, -Firearmshistory.blogspot.com --and --Robbins & Lawrence co. on " Vintagemachinery.org

 

[DownNDirty]

Charleston in 1820s, moved north and all worked together 1840s thru 1850s, Smith, Wesson, Robbins, Henry etc. ----check this site out, -Firearmshistory.blogspot.com --and --Robbins & Lawrence co. on " Vintagemachinery.org

That's interesting-I'll check it out. Thanks

 

[DownNDirty]

Charleston in 1820s, moved north and all worked together 1840s thru 1850s, Smith, Wesson, Robbins, Henry etc. ----check this site out, -Firearmshistory.blogspot.com --and --Robbins & Lawrence co. on " Vintagemachinery.org

I don't think that is the same Robbins.

 

[DownNDirty]

A friend suggested that it may have come from a buckle like this one; looks like a good possibility to me

 

[DownNDirty]

OK, thanks to a lot of help from several T'netters the mystery is solved. The piece in question was the center disk from a sash buckle (similar to the one pictured above). It was made for Smith & Robbins, a hardware wholesaler who operated at 313 King Street in Charleston, SC in the 1820s. Thank you everyone who contributed-it is great to be able to get such a specific id on something like this.

 

[Patriot Relics]

Nice detective work Glenn, very interesting piece

 

[DownNDirty]

Nice detective work Glenn, very interesting piece

SC Digger guessed that it was from a sash buckle & gave me the email address of an expert who confirmed it. Also as you can see others contributed to the id of the merchant. This is a great site with a bunch of knowledgeable & helpful folks-gotta love it!

 

[DownNDirty]

Here's the building as it looks today

 

[CC Hunter]

DownNDirty,

Your stamped brass "Medallion" find, featuring a spread-wing eagle surrounded by the name of a business firm from Charleston South Carolina, is a unique and interesting piece. From personal experience relic digging in the Charleston area spanning well over 35 years, I can offer that this find here is the first example I've seen. On a further note, 19th century stamped brass Tongue & Wreath style buckles became a collecting obsession of mine many years ago, resulting in extensive research, field work, along with the study of as many varieties as could be encountered. Upon careful study of your find in the accompanying photos with this thread, I will state that this particular piece, from my own standpoint, is very unlikely to be a center disk for a Tongue & Wreath buckle.

Granted, the style and design is rather similar to the * Bondy Brothers * New York example of an 1850's stamped brass Tongue & Wreath (T&W) buckle as shown in this thread. However, all the known examples of stamped brass T&W buckles featuring an eagle design surrounded by a company name, have in fact been for dealers in clothing and belts, with listings either in New York or San Francisco. These particular styles of buckles gathered great popularity during the California Gold Rush, being manufactured and supplied specifically for that market. Of course there is always the possibility of a new variation of stamped brass T&W buckle being discovered, that may feature an entirely different business or even an entirely different city. Therefore, on this first point alone, I would not entirely strike the buckle theory from the record.

Of all the known examples of company marked stamped brass T&W buckles (for notation: an example of these has either been personally dug or acquired for my own collection), these are all stamped from one piece of rolled brass for the tongue portion. There are a number of 19th century T&W buckles with stamped brass center disks being attached by solder to a separate bar piece for the tongue, being of two-piece construction, (yet, none of these as just described are with company names surrounding the face). For the mystery "Medallion" here, I see no evidence of ever having solder affixed to the back, thereby ruling out this type of T&W buckle. If we consider the possibility that this was in fact a one-piece stamped brass tongue of thin rolled material, where the buckle disk had broken off the bridge piece near where originally attached to the belt loop (very common break by the way, as noted frequently with the thin stamped T&W buckles), then we should notice a slight rough break area on one side of this "Medallion" piece. To my trained eye, the perimeter of this mystery piece appears perfectly smooth all the way around, with no evidence of breakage at any point. Therefore, I see no evidence of attachment to what would normally be the usual T&W buckle tongue portion. This will be strike number two.

With only a rough estimation on size based on the relation to fingers in the accompanying photos earlier, this mystery "Medallion" appears to be nearly 1.5" in diameter. Of the known stamped brass T&W buckles with the eagle design and surrounding company name, the center disk is slightly under 1.25" diameter. The larger diameter on this mystery piece, is another strike against the T&W buckle possibility.

Taking into account that all the other known examples of stamped brass eagle T&W buckles with company names surrounding the designs coincide with the great demand for ready-clothing during the California Gold Rush, brings into play the time period of this event spanning 1848-1859. With the listed research location for this Charleston firm being a decade or two earlier (plus in the hardware business, rather than clothing), is even more strikes against fitting in with comparable T&W buckles of known company design.

Quite possibly the mystery "Medallion" was originally affixed or set into wood, on some hardware piece. I will merely speculate as to the true function of this detailed stamped brass piece. In closing, I believe the SOLVED status of this piece is entirely unwarranted at this point. Further discussion in hopes of a more concise attribution for this piece is certainly welcomed from this viewpoint.


CC Hunter

 

[CC Hunter]

Following discussion regarding this mystery "Medallion" with a fellow collector/relic digger well experienced in mid-19th artifacts, a similar style piece of stamped brass was provided for photo reference. This particular item in the following photos is of comparable size, material, detail, and construction, being found in context of a mid-1800's period site. Research links this particular example to being originally affixed to an early sewing machine.

Wheeler & Wilson - NBWiki


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler_%26_Wilson



The Smith & Robbins Charleston S.C. brass medallion may have originally been recessed into wood, on such an item as a boxed set of dueling pistols, or similar. Another possibility is the Smith & Robbins brass medallion being originally set into and/or affixed to an iron or steel piece of machinery or tool. The earlier research in this thread with the directory listings for hardware and firearms dealers provides a great lead to follow for proper identification.


CC Hunter

 

[DownNDirty]

CC-
Thank you for all of your comments, research and info; I have removed the "Solved" designation from the thread. I measured the piece with a digital caliper and the diameter is 1.28 inches-which is right in line with the measurement you gave for most T & W buckle center pieces. Not saying that is what my item was, but it is in the right size range.



Here are some additional pictures taken after the final cleanup; hopefully they will aid in the id

 

[DownNDirty]

The hole in the center is a mystery. It appears that something punctured it from back to front, because the metal around the edge of the hole is pushed out through the front. Kind of like police investigative shows where they determine that a window was broken from one side or the other based on where the glass shards fell.

 

[trapperart]

Thanks to everyone who posted on this very interesting and informative