Malaysian Coast Guard detains Chinese ship suspected of salvaging HMS Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales, sunk in WW II.

[Physics guy]

Might be interesting to see how this case develops and if it might affect other marine salvage operations.

Dredge Linked to WWII Wreck Desecration Has Been Arrested Again

The Chinese grab dredge that allegedly desecrated the wrecks of two famous WWII warships off Malaysia has run into trouble with the law once more. Th...

maritime-executive.com

Authorities Detain Chinese Ship Suspected of Salvaging U.K. WWII Wrecks - USNI News

The Malaysian coast guard detained a Chinese bulk cargo ship carrying unexploded shells that may have been looted from United Kingdom Royal Navy World War II wrecks HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse, which were both sunk by torpedoes days after the attack on Pearl Harbor. The Malaysian...

news.usni.org

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Sink 'em

 

[enrada]

Seize them and sell them to a qualified treasure hunter.

 

[Physics guy]

This may be what they were after:

Low-background steel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[The Rebel]

They should confiscate the ship and jail everyone on board for 10 years in a hard labor camp.

Why would you want to even retrieve unexploded ordinance??

 

[pepperj]

This may be what they were after:

Low-background steel - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In cases where World War II-era shipwrecks in and near the relatively shallow Java Sea and western South China Sea have been illegally scavenged, it has been suggested that the target is low-background steel.[7] Andrew Brockman, a maritime crime researcher and archaeologist, argues that it is more likely to be conventional salvage.[8]

I have a pretty good sense when it comes to the scrap industry, and from dealing with the Chinese for well over a decade I learned how they operated.
Scrap is scrap to them regardless of what it really is basically.

So lets take the HMS Prince of Wales was Approx. 43,000 tons
China right now a ton of steel 1630.00 MT (metric Ton)

The math equates salvage of this ships-worth $70 Million

That salvage ship isn't a little operation, they mean business and they're not playing to loose $$$

Cheapest expense is the crew of 32 men

 

[pepperj]

They should confiscate the ship and jail everyone on board for 10 years in a hard labor camp.

Why would you want to even retrieve unexploded ordinance??

Scrap metal
Lead, brass, copper, stainless, steel
$$$ trumps replaceable crew member.

 

[Crow]

I find the Chinese actions and methods repulsive but I still think serious questions need to be asked?

Here is a link to background steel.

Why is low background steal is so valuable?

Here is the conundrum we face as shipwreck Hunters and salvers. Is it justifiable to recover treasure from any shipwrecks at all? For example what makes one life less important than others?

After WW2 most western Countries could not salvage sunken ships quick enough regardless of how many loss of life was onboard. Today if its a warship its a war grave. That all changed when scuba diving became more mainstream. And more people had accessing such once unattainable shipwrecks.

shipwreck salvage ethics

A plane that crashed on the runway killing everyone onboard or even in the crashing into ocean. it does not become a protected graveside where it crashed? So why do any sunken vessel treated differently? yet it is. Is that not double standards?

Why is merchant sailors live lost in wartime seen as less important as their navy warship counter parts? Yet countries all over the world Treat them with less respect than their navy counterparts. Both was taking risks for their country we they not?

Is a Spanish galleon for example where people lost their lives hundreds of years ago earlier, less important than a 20th century WW2 shipwreck war grave. These are ethical considerations we have to consider.

Another thing to consider too is on land there are many battle sites around the world where thousands have died now dug up as housing estates. it that not violation of a war grave? But once again we have those had died on a ship they are treated differently. Does that mean people on land during war time have less protection that those lost at sea in war?

If all ships sunken during war are considered war graves. Who takes responsibly when oils from such ships leak out a pollute the environment? So while governments are quick put out rules in place. But in reality there are so no many double standards.

Today the powers to be admonish treasure hunters for such practices disturbing and profiteering from such shipwrecks. But it is alright for an archeologist to dig up cemeteries and disturb graves. There seems to be double standards in many things.

Here is story of gold being recovered from a war gave.


HMS Edinburgh gold recovery

If they tried a thing today would it of ever gotten off the ground?


Crow

 

[: Michael-Robert.]

I find the Chinese actions and methods repulsive but I still think serious questions need to be asked?

Here is a link to background steel.

Why is low background steal is so valuable?

Here is the conundrum we face as shipwreck Hunters and salvers. Is it justifiable to recover treasure from any shipwrecks at all? For example what makes one life less important than others?

After WW2 most western Countries could not salvage sunken ships quick enough regardless of how many loss of life was onboard. Today if its a warship its a war grave. That all changed when scuba diving became more mainstream. And more people had accessing such once unattainable shipwrecks.

shipwreck salvage ethics

A plane that crashed on the runway killing everyone onboard or even in the crashing into ocean. it does not become a protected graveside where it crashed? So why do any sunken vessel treated differently? yet it is. Is that not double standards?

Why is merchant sailors live lost in wartime seen as less important as their navy warship counter parts? Yet countries all over the world Treat them with less respect than their navy counterparts. Both was taking risks for their country we they not?

Is a Spanish galleon for example where people lost their lives hundreds of years ago earlier, less important than a 20th century WW2 shipwreck war grave. These are ethical considerations we have to consider.

Another thing to consider too is on land there are many battle sites around the world where thousands have died now dug up as housing estates. it that not violation of a war grave? But once again we have those had died on a ship they are treated differently. Does that mean people on land during war time have less protection that those lost at sea in war?

If all ships sunken during war are considered war graves. Who takes responsibly when oils from such ships leak out a pollute the environment? So while governments are quick put out rules in place. But in reality there are so no many double standards.

Today the powers to be admonish treasure hunters for such practices disturbing and profiteering from such shipwrecks. But it is alright for an archeologist to dig up cemeteries and disturb graves. There seems to be double standards in many things.

Here is story of gold being recovered from a war gave.


HMS Edinburgh gold recovery

If they tried a thing today would if of ever gotten off the ground?


Crow

Well said, Crow....

 

[Physics guy]

I find the Chinese actions and methods repulsive but I still think serious questions need to be asked?

Here is a link to background steel.

Why is low background steal is so valuable?

Here is the conundrum we face as shipwreck Hunters and salvers. Is it justifiable to recover treasure from any shipwrecks at all? For example what makes one life less important than others?

After WW2 most western Countries could not salvage sunken ships quick enough regardless of how many loss of life was onboard. Today if its a warship its a war grave. That all changed when scuba diving became more mainstream. And more people had accessing such once unattainable shipwrecks.

shipwreck salvage ethics

A plane that crashed on the runway killing everyone onboard or even in the crashing into ocean. it does not become a protected graveside where it crashed? So why do any sunken vessel treated differently? yet it is. Is that not double standards?

Why is merchant sailors live lost in wartime seen as less important as their navy warship counter parts? Yet countries all over the world Treat them with less respect than their navy counterparts. Both was taking risks for their country we they not?

Is a Spanish galleon for example where people lost their lives hundreds of years ago earlier, less important than a 20th century WW2 shipwreck war grave. These are ethical considerations we have to consider.

Another thing to consider too is on land there are many battle sites around the world where thousands have died now dug up as housing estates. it that not violation of a war grave? But once again we have those had died on a ship they are treated differently. Does that mean people on land during war time have less protection that those lost at sea in war?

If all ships sunken during war are considered war graves. Who takes responsibly when oils from such ships leak out a pollute the environment? So while governments are quick put out rules in place. But in reality there are so no many double standards.

Today the powers to be admonish treasure hunters for such practices disturbing and profiteering from such shipwrecks. But it is alright for an archeologist to dig up cemeteries and disturb graves. There seems to be double standards in many things.

Here is story of gold being recovered from a war gave.


HMS Edinburgh gold recovery

If they tried a thing today would if of ever gotten off the ground?


Crow

Good points. Is a ship of the line sunk during the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 a war grave? A trireme sunk during the Battle of Salamis in 480 BC? Perhaps an agreed-upon date defining a war grave would be the answer.

 

[Crow]

Good points. Is a ship of the line sunk during the Battle of Trafalgar in 1805 a war grave? A trireme sunk during the Battle of Salamis in 480 BC? Perhaps an agreed-upon date defining a war grave would be the answer.

There is no sugar coating it at the end of day. you either, into salvaging of shipwrecks for profit or you are not? The results are exactly same you are disturbing the dead. Regardless of if you are a righteous archaeologist or gave robber? At the end of the day, you are disturbing the dead.

just something to come to terms with.

Crow

 

[pepperj]

I find the Chinese actions and methods repulsive but I still think serious questions need to be asked?

Here is a link to background steel.

Why is low background steal is so valuable?

Here is the conundrum we face as shipwreck Hunters and salvers. Is it justifiable to recover treasure from any shipwrecks at all? For example what makes one life less important than others?

After WW2 most western Countries could not salvage sunken ships quick enough regardless of how many loss of life was onboard. Today if its a warship its a war grave. That all changed when scuba diving became more mainstream. And more people had accessing such once unattainable shipwrecks.

shipwreck salvage ethics

A plane that crashed on the runway killing everyone onboard or even in the crashing into ocean. it does not become a protected graveside where it crashed? So why do any sunken vessel treated differently? yet it is. Is that not double standards?

Why is merchant sailors live lost in wartime seen as less important as their navy warship counter parts? Yet countries all over the world Treat them with less respect than their navy counterparts. Both was taking risks for their country we they not?

Is a Spanish galleon for example where people lost their lives hundreds of years ago earlier, less important than a 20th century WW2 shipwreck war grave. These are ethical considerations we have to consider.

Another thing to consider too is on land there are many battle sites around the world where thousands have died now dug up as housing estates. it that not violation of a war grave? But once again we have those had died on a ship they are treated differently. Does that mean people on land during war time have less protection that those lost at sea in war?

If all ships sunken during war are considered war graves. Who takes responsibly when oils from such ships leak out a pollute the environment? So while governments are quick put out rules in place. But in reality there are so no many double standards.

Today the powers to be admonish treasure hunters for such practices disturbing and profiteering from such shipwrecks. But it is alright for an archeologist to dig up cemeteries and disturb graves. There seems to be double standards in many things.

Here is story of gold being recovered from a war gave.


HMS Edinburgh gold recovery

If they tried a thing today would it of ever gotten off the ground?


Crow

"A plane that crashed on the runway killing everyone onboard or even in the crashing into ocean. it does not become a protected graveside where it crashed? "

We have a military 431 Air Demonstration Squadron called The SnowBirds.
In 1989 there was a midair collision resulting in 1 fatality.

4 yrs later I bought the 2 jet airplanes for complete destruction (cutting them up for wrought)
No souvenirs to be kept. (As the contract stipulated)

I found 13 plastic envelopes that contained airplane parts that had been removed from the pilots body.
(These had human tissue attached, and were to have been buried with the pilot)
I returned to the Downsview Military Base so they could be buried with pilot.

Military actually lost these envelopes for 4yrs and released the airplanes to an outside recycler.
(I was told: "Have you heard of the phrase-When the shit hits the fan?"-YES-"Well there there's a whole dump truck being dumped on this one")
I didn't mention this to anyone for 20 yrs, as time passed it's just a piece of history.

Basically the crash site is just that-the outer harbour in Toronto, no more/nothing less.
I often wonder about sites and really how protected they are, or do we just hear a bunch of BS about the protection of them.

 

[pepperj]

There is no sugar coating it at the end of day. you either, into salvaging of shipwrecks for profit or you are not? The results are exactly same you are disturbing the dead. Regardless of if you are a righteous archaeologist or gave robber? At the end of the day, you are disturbing the dead.

just something to come to terms with.

Crow

Basically both are the same(grave robbers) except one has a piece of paper in a frame to justify the action.

 

[The Rebel]

My guess is when enough time passes and when those who were directly affected by the loss and are all now dead it makes it easier to accept the salvage, unless innocent lives were lost like the Titanic or Lusitania.

My 2nd cup of coffee hasn't kicked in fully yet so my thinking may be slightly off.

 

[Crow]

My guess is when enough time passes and when those who were directly affected by the loss and are all now dead it makes it easier to accept the salvage, unless innocent lives were lost like the Titanic or Lusitania.

My 2nd cup of coffee hasn't kicked in fully yet so my thinking may be slightly off.

No by all means a very good point. All shipwreck are innocent lives regardless. Even an enemy combatant ship during the war many people in war are forced to do things they rather not do. So in effect their lives are no different that any others.

Every shipwreck is story of tragedy. But you make very good point.

My guess is when enough time passes and when those who were directly affected by the loss and are all now dead it makes it easier to accept the salvage.

I could not agree more.

Crow

 

[Whynotme]

Seize them and sell them to a qualified treasure hunter.

Slavery is illegal. They might want to seize the artifacts though. 😁