Madrugada Estrella Mapa Oro

[okietreasurehunter]

Shepard I'm not hunting it because where it is, it's illegal to hunt it. I have too many other sites to hunt to do anything against the law. Gooner without seeing the original rock map I can't say for sure where the gold is. I have a feeling the maps in the book are different than the rock map.

 

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[Gooner]

What could make "hunting" the Madrugada Estrella against the law? And who keeps trying to put it on federal land? The creek crossing where I found the landmarks is on private property, in northern Oklahoma. Everything lines up perfectly, even the number of paces, using the top of the map as east.
All a person needs is permission from the landowner and a written agreement that is also signed by a witness or two. If this isn't the location to the map, it is set up identical with the same number of paces as is on the map. I don't care where the "rock" copy was found. (Comanche County) According to rumor, the "rock" version of the map was also a copy of the original, and the original was acquired near Chihuahua, Mexico when the James gang took the eighteen jackloads of bullion. After caching the bullion, they went on to rob a military payroll and supply caravan, then dressed as calvary they easily stopped and robbed two trains and hauled the eight safes about 300 miles on military wagons (camoflaged with bricks) to a gulley on the high plains and dynamited them open. Then they serialized the loot in eight spots about two miles downstream from where the Madrugada Estrella had already been. They did not put the Madrugada Estrella where it is. The Mexicans fully intended to recover the M.E. Jess and a couple of others recognized the landmarks on the M.E. map, commonly called the star map nowadays. The serialized loot downstream is listed on two maps, one being the "horse and saddle map" where the top of the map actually is north, and another map that has the top of the map as south. About a mile and a quarter farther downstream is another set of markers, I suppose the map to this one to be in the hand drawn and hand colored story book with the "cross your heart" pictures.
-bill-

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Gooner, I'm not sure where you get your information but good luck to you. I don't even know if Jesse James is connected with the Star map. If your site is the one it goes to then you better get to digging. Gold is over $1400 an ounce now.

I do notice that you are now saying that the Horse and Saddle Cave map is connected with the Star map. Sorry but you are definetly wrong on this one. Horse and Saddle map goes to Comanche County and I'm 100% positive of this. Come down this way some time and I'll show you something you won't find in the Black Book or online forums. Then you will see how the two Horse and Saddle Maps in Wilson's book are actually poor copies of the original. Good luck with the fishing though.

 

[Gooner]

The Madrugada Estrella Mapa Oro and the Horse and Saddle map aren't connected, About two miles apart from each other. According to one unnamed source, the James gang acquired the map from the Mexicans they killed near Chihuahua, when they acquired the eighteen jackloads. From the same source who wished to remain anonymous, one of the members made a copy on a rock. The place I have found matches the details on the M.E. map, and about two miles downstream the place matches the details on the H. & S. map, with the capital letters JJ above a plugged cave. 42 paces west is another plugged cave and two more paces west is yet another. So what is supposed to be here at 42 paces west is according to one map is $38,000 in gold, plus an unnamed amount of greenbacks, and
jewelry. 44 paces west is, according to the other published map, $23,000, $18,000 of it is gold, and $5,000 is greenbacks, with "jewels" here at this location as well. Whether I am correct or not, something is definitely marked, and some great effort was made for concealment. The combined total for the two particular maps is $219,000 in gold coin, $5,000 in paper currency, an unnamed amount of paper currency, jewelry, jewels, and eleven handbags. With "my version" of the Horse and Saddle cave being plugged, and the anonymous source stating that there may have been as many as five maps that overlay each other, who can say what I have come across. Perhaps it is in Commanche county like everyone keeps telling me. However, it is quite obvious to me that after my current search and excavation for a poorly documented cache of Spanish tools and possibly a cannon comes to either a conclusion or a standstill, then this marked area will be next in my sights for an attempt at recovery of whatever may be there. Then, success or failure, upstream about two miles to attempt recovery of whatever may be hidden amongst the markers that match the M.E. map. At least for now these are my plans and intentions, which will fill a vast amount of time.
-bill-

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Huh that's funny that your "unnamed source" would say that about the rock since as far as I know I'm the only one who has ever mentioned the map being on a rock. Your "unnamed source" must really have some good information. Each map that I have seen goes to it's own locaation. Some of them are in the same general area but don't overlay each other.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

All three versions of the map are different in the number of paces from the cave and amounts of money. I think I will stick with the original map instead of the two copies in Wilson's book.

 

[Gooner]

Okie, Wells had a son, a daughter, and a step-son. When I was in school, from about the seventh grade through my senior year, Frank Blevins lived next door to me. He said there was no more buried treasure, that it all had been found long ago. I hope that answers many questions you may have.
Frank did tell me several stories, and whether or not he embellished them, who can say?
-bill-
p.s., do you have "The Original" or just "another accurate map" with another set of actual and real caches?
Two are published, plus the M.E. map, other markers downstream another mile or so indicate another entirely different potential set of serialized caches also. Even if I am wrong about what is hidden in my area, something is hidden there.

 

[Gooner]

...and as for the rock map of the M.E. being a copy made by an outlaw, a person who asked to remain anonymous e-mailed me with that information recently, maybe about a month ago.
Another source of info. was "Aunt Icy" as we called her. No kin to my family, she was raised near Atoka by John and Esther Stewart. I only knew her as Aunt Icy Ford and she was said to be close kin to none other than Bob Ford.
-bill-

 

[Gooner]

...and as for the rock map of the M.E. being a copy made by an outlaw, a person who asked to remain anonymous e-mailed me with that information recently, maybe about a month ago.
Another source of info. was "Aunt Icy" as we called her. No kin to my family, she was raised near Atoka by John and Esther Stewart. I only knew her as Aunt Icy Ford and she was said to be close kin to none other than Bob Ford.
-bill-

...and as for people who e-mail me and wish to remain anonymous, I haven't been able to get any response from that person for quite some time now. I wonder if he merely was repeating what you've already said Okie, only with some liberal embellishment. People do that from time to time, stir the facts and pretend to know a little bit more. This isn't helpful to my research.
"Aunt Icy" is the one who told me the James gang dressed in brand new calvary uniforms to rob two trains. This was years ago, in the late 1960's. -bill-

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Wells got a lot of his information from his wife and her family. The Horse and Saddle map is the original and it has much of the information that is in Wilson's book but is much more detailed.

 

[Gooner]

I asked Jose Abelar if he had ever heard of the Madrugada Estrella and he said yes.
I asked him what is it? and he said it was a treasure story he heard when he was a
child. I asked him where is it supposed to be? and he said near Tulsa.
He went on to confirm that it was a Mexican story. When you consider the distance to his childhood home, it is easier to understand what he meant by "near Tulsa." Near could be fifty or over a hundred miles easily, in any direction. The story does exist in Mexico, without the map. Jose doesn't know about Wells Blevins or the rock version of the map or Steve Wilson's book.
-bill-

 

[okietreasurehunter]

That may be a common name for Mexican Treasure. I don't believe Jesse came across the map in Mexico and then recognized the area in Oklahoma. It doesn't make sense that a group of men in Mexico leading a pack train of gold would be carrying a treasure map to our state especially if they weren't heading here to look for the loot. What does make sense is a group of outlaws hid the gold and then made a map. Other than the Spanish words it doesn't look like a Spanish map.

 

[Gooner]

Okie brother, (my fellow Oklahoman), I was wondering, could the two be true, to another location than what is commonly known? The markers and number of paces so totally line up, truth. Billy.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

I guess dig and solve the mystery.

 

[alec]

It's been my experience that when you find a carved map, even on a rock that can easily be moved, the map goes to the area that the carving is found in. I would have to agree with Okie that the early morning star map probably goes to a spot where it is illegal to hunt.

I will also say that this map is not as straight forward as it looks and there are several things in it that you will have to figure out involving the paces and the land marks.

Something you should think about is the fact that the $200,000 is marked by the three "boulders". If this was the case then there is a LOT of info on the map that is not needed to find the three boulders. It would be my opinion that what everyone refers to as boulders are not boulders but depict something else. What they depict will be interpreted by how they were made on the carved map. Were these actually three circles like they are drawn on the copies or were they three dots/small drill holes. The interpretation of three drill holes will be way different than three circles.

There is more information on the map than is needed to find the cache if you know where the spot is. This would lead me to believe that there is more to finding the cache the just stepping off some paces and finding three boulders. Maybe there is more than one cache at the spot the map goes too or maybe the map is coded in a way to keep someone from just walking up and finding the treasure.

Brewer was completely wrong about this map and the copper map.

 

[Gooner]

Didn't Bob Brewer already locate this? ( Rebel Gold book)

Yes he did and he dug it up and blah blah blah...
and they declared it was on land where it is illegal to dig, therefore, it is still there and so shall it always remain where it never was. Thus an exemplary excuse as to why. Gotta tell the wife something. Of course, in the same location someone else dug a big empty hole and found nothing
which justifies the statement as to someone else done got it. However, I personally

 

[okiedowser]

Didn't Bob Brewer already locate this? ( Rebel Gold book)

Yes he did and he dug it up and blah blah blah...
and they declared it was on land where it is illegal to dig, therefore, it is still there and so shall it always remain where it never was. Thus an exemplary excuse as to why. Gotta tell the wife something. Of course, in the same location someone else dug a big empty hole and found nothing
which justifies the statement as to someone else done got it. However, I personally

Gooner hope all is well with you and your little wife. okie

 

[Gooner]

Yes we are fine. She lost an older sister. The tornado was west of town about three miles. Noone injured. Hope all is well with you and your wife....-bill

 

[okiedowser]

all is well...... watch out for them snake's God Bless

 

[shepherd]

Just go over the fence. I am sure no one will care that doesn't see you.