Looking for ground balance tech info maybe better luck in this thread

[crashbandicoot]

Sorry but no.
In my original post I explained how I started metal detecting over 15 years ago and had detectors such as sovereign gt, cibola , vaquero, ace 250, xterra 505, silver umax, and for the beach on of my favorites excalliber II. As you see i tend to favor minelabe and Tesoro but have tried several different ones.
I got out of the hobby for several reasons at the time but now looking to get back into it and noticed things have changed a bit with detectors some companies no longer around and technology has changed a bit as well. So looking at detectors in my current price range to start over since i had sold all mine almost 15 years ago.
I was always a little confused about ground balancing although I understand the concept.
I had auto, fixed and manual gb detectors. Auto and fixed you turn on and go but never sure how they actually did in my soil which leads to my questions.
Manual gb you have the ability to adjust it and basically they all adjust the same way pump coil up and down listen for tone if it increases on up or down determines if ypu are too positive or negative.
Well any manual gb detector i ever had i never got one sound, anything no matter where it was set to tell me how my detector was balanced and which way to adjust it.
Now i always thought it was a valid question to ask why my detectors behave like this, i cant get them to manually gb following the manufacture instructions.
I was told that means i have “neutral” soil or no mineralization.
Ok, well if that is the case where do i still set the gb knob? Positive? Negative? Because you cant shit it off or there is no zero setting.
So does it really matter and affecting the performance? Because i was always told if you have your gb set wrong it could affect your performance.
A fixed gb detector is factory set and you can’t change it and told usually doesn’t matter in low to no mineralization soil wont affect performance much ok then what about a manual gb detector where YOu have to set the knob its not set by the manufacture. Where do you set it if you cant get a tone because of no mineralization? Does it matter?
I can’t explain it more than this and don’t see how the brand of detector matters because no matter the brand all manual gb detector’s are set the same.
So no i am not trolling just trying to get an answer for those questions I don’t think are out of line unless you don’t care about the performance of your machine you just turn on and go no matter where the controls are set.
In that case they should just make a detector with just a power button.

You,re still misunderstanding the concept of ground balance I think.When you do the pump the machine sets itself in the circuitry,it displays a number I believe which is GB in that place. You don,t have to manually do any thing,it,s done.I don,t know what you,re talking about with Sound. Terry is well versed in modern detectors,he knows what he,s talking about.

 

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[DigDog201]

You,re still misunderstanding the concept of ground balance I think.When you do the pump the machine sets itself in the circuitry,it displays a number I believe which is GB in that place. You don,t have to manually do any thing,it,s done.I don,t know what you,re talking about with Sound. Terry is well versed in modern detectors,he knows what he,s talking about.

It sets itself if its a auto ground balancing machine a manual gb detector it has a knob or buttons that you have to adjust manually, hence manual ground balance, depending on weather it is positive or negative and that is determined by pumping the coil up and down and listening to the tone.
Manufacture instructions not my understanding of the concept.
Sounds like i could be wrong you don’t have a true manual gb machine and i think the terminology is confusing.
Really too long to post on here could try but google say tesoro tejon or vaquero, user manual how to ground balance im sure anyone who used or uses a true manual gb detector with a adjustment knob can verify this.
Part of the problem nobody who has a true manual gb detector with knobs has posted a reply to this thread. Someone please do.
I will try to attach a picture to this thread shortly with a picture of a detector with such options and let me know if we are on same page. I suspect you have a auto gb machine which is basically a manual gb detector that the program in the detector adjusts it automatically for you( auto gb ) a manual gb detector has knobs ir buttons to adjust and the process is as I described above and a fixed gb detector the manufacture sets it at a fixed point inside the detector and no knobs to see or turn.

 

[crashbandicoot]

It sets itself if its a auto ground balancing machine a manual gb detector it has a knob or buttons that you have to adjust manually, hence manual ground balance, depending on weather it is positive or negative and that is determined by pumping the coil up and down and listening to the tone.
Manufacture instructions not my understanding of the concept.
Sounds like i could be wrong you don’t have a true manual gb machine and i think the terminology is confusing.
Really too long to post on here could try but google say tesoro tejon or vaquero, user manual how to ground balance im sure anyone who used or uses a true manual gb detector with a adjustment knob can verify this.
Part of the problem nobody who has a true manual gb detector with knobs has posted a reply to this thread. Someone please do.
I will try to attach a picture to this thread shortly with a picture of a detector with such options and let me know if we are on same page. I suspect you have a auto gb machine which is basically a manual gb detector that the program in the detector adjusts it automatically for you( auto gb ) a manual gb detector has knobs ir buttons to adjust and the process is as I described above and a fixed gb detector the manufacture sets it at a fixed point inside the detector and no knobs to see or turn.

OK bro,no problem!

 

[DigDog201]

You,re still misunderstanding the concept of ground balance I think.When you do the pump the machine sets itself in the circuitry,it displays a number I believe which is GB in that place. You don,t have to manually do any thing,it,s done.I don,t know what you,re talking about with Sound. Terry is well versed in modern detectors,he knows what he,s talking about.

Here is a tesoro cortez one of many detectors with a

You,re still misunderstanding the concept of ground balance I think.When you do the pump the machine sets itself in the circuitry,it displays a number I believe which is GB in that place. You don,t have to manually do any thing,it,s done.I don,t know what you,re talking about with Sound. Terry is well versed in modern detectors,he knows what he,s talking about.

here is a picture of a tesoro cortez picked it only because easy to see the manual gb knob
You turn it either to more positive or negative until its just right and to determine that instructions are to pump coil listen for sound and turn knob until correct. If you have the knob in the wrong position( not ground balanced it can severely affect the performance of your detector)

 

[Peyton Manning]

Several have asked what machine you have, did you ever say?

 

[DigDog201]

You,re still misunderstanding the concept of ground balance I think.When you do the pump the machine sets itself in the circuitry,it displays a number I believe which is GB in that place. You don,t have to manually do any thing,it,s done.I don,t know what you,re talking about with Sound. Terry is well versed in modern detectors,he knows what he,s talking about.

Here is a youtube link ground balancing 101 hope this helps sorry for confusion

 

[crashbandicoot]

Here is a youtube link ground balancing 101 hope this helps sorry for confusion

Not falling for any more.Good luck to you in your endeavors!

 

[DigDog201]

Several have asked what machine you have, did you ever say?

Here has been my response just read through the thread

n my original post I explained how I started metal detecting over 15 years ago and had detectors such as sovereign gt, cibola , vaquero, ace 250, xterra 505, silver umax, and for the beach on of my favorites excalliber II. As you see i tend to favor minelabe and Tesoro but have tried several different ones.
I got out of the hobby for several reasons at the time but now looking to get back into it and noticed things have changed a bit with detectors some companies no longer around and technology has changed a bit as well. So looking at detectors in my current price range to start over since i had sold all mine almost 15 years ago.
I was always a little confused about ground balancing although I understand the concept.
I had auto, fixed and manual gb detectors. Auto and fixed you turn on and go but never sure how they actually did in my soil which leads to my questions.
Manual gb you have the ability to adjust it and basically they all adjust the same way pump coil up and down listen for tone if it increases on up or down determines if ypu are too positive or negative.
Well any manual gb detector i ever had i never got one sound, anything no matter where it was set to tell me how my detector was balanced and which way to adjust it.
Now i always thought it was a valid question to ask why my detectors behave like this, i cant get them to manually gb following the manufacture instructions.
I was told that means i have “neutral” soil or no mineralization.
Ok, well if that is the case where do i still set the gb knob? Positive? Negative? Because you cant shit it off or there is no zero setting.
So does it really matter and affecting the performance? Because i was always told if you have your gb set wrong it could affect your performance.
A fixed gb detector is factory set and you can’t change it and told usually doesn’t matter in low to no mineralization soil wont affect performance much ok then what about a manual gb detector where YOu have to set the knob its not set by the manufacture. Where do you set it if you cant get a tone because of no mineralization? Does it matter?
I can’t explain it more than this and don’t see how the brand of detector matters because no matter the brand all manual gb detector’s are set the same.
So no i am not trolling just trying to get an answer for those questions I don’t think are out of line unless you don’t care about the performance of your machine you just turn on and go no matter where the controls are set.
In that case they should just make a detector with just a power button.

 

[DigDog201]

Not falling for any more.Good luck to you in your endeavors!

Falling??! Just asking same question nobody able to actually answer
I think people are getting confused thinking their auto gb detector is a manual gb detector
If the detector does it for you its auto not manual
True manual YOU actually have to turn, push knobs until its set
Sorry guys not trying to do anything but we have a misunderstanding of the terminology here
If you are not experienced with it and don’t know just say so
I appreciate the effort to help but this was always a pretty technical question that a experienced operator of a true ground balance detector would know, i just thought one might answer it
Maybe i posted this on the wrong thread thanks anyway

 

[DigDog201]

Falling??! Just asking same question nobody able to actually answer
I think people are getting confused thinking their auto gb detector is a manual gb detector
If the detector does it for you its auto not manual
True manual YOU actually have to turn, push knobs until its set
Sorry guys not trying to do anything but we have a misunderstanding of the terminology here
If you are not experienced with it and don’t know just say so
I appreciate the effort to help but this was always a pretty technical question that a experienced operator of a true ground balance detector would know, i just thought one might answer it
Maybe i posted this on the wrong thread thanks anywa

Not falling for any more.Good luck to you in your endeavors!

Ok again not trying to do anything to anyone but here is an answer I finally got from someone that is understanding exactly what i am talking about. Posting response in hopes it helps everyone to understand and also maybe something they possibly did not know about. Thanks

You will probably find there is a sweet spot on the gb knob even on neutral ground.......setting the gb too positive or negative will cause a rise or decrease in sound too so this will tell you where the neutral setting is by following the detectors ground balancing procedure..A few detectors,particularly older models used to have a mark on the gb knob showing the user a "general"setting that the operator could use as a type of fixed gb that would generally work well in most soil conditions.
Over here in the UK we have a manufacturer that still sells a lot of fixed gb detectors which are "set up for uk conditions".......i have owned a few different models and they have all performed very well in every area of the uk i have detected in,sometimes makes me wonder what the fuss is all about concerning gb.😂Main problem we encounter here is that some of our ancient sites are so littered with iron minerals from thousands of years of occupation that getting any sort of performance out of your machine is almost impossible.......you know the really good targets are there but you just can't get to them,luckily that is not that common.

 

[DigDog201]

Falling??! Just asking same question nobody able to actually answer
I think people are getting confused thinking their auto gb detector is a manual gb detector
If the detector does it for you its auto not manual
True manual YOU actually have to turn, push knobs until its set
Sorry guys not trying to do anything but we have a misunderstanding of the terminology here
If you are not experienced with it and don’t know just say so
I appreciate the effort to help but this was always a pretty technical question that a experienced operator of a true ground balance detector would know, i just thought one might answer it
Maybe i posted this on the wrong thread thanks anyway

Just simply trying to get the best detector for my soil conditions here within a budget. Cant exactly afford a xp or any really high end detectors great in all conditions. And the conditions are different all across the country. Nothing more nothing less

 

[Terry Soloman]

Are you a Democrat by any chance?

 

[DigDog201]

Are you a Democrat by any chance?

Neither both sides are so far out they can’t seem to understand anything in simple terms.
Everything has to made more complicated than it really is

 

[crashbandicoot]

Neither both sides are so far out they can’t seem to understand anything in simple terms.
Everything has to made more complicated than it really is

As has been stated with your comments on ground balance,way more complicated than it really is.So you got a statement from a guy in the UK.Far from Florida ground.

 

[DigDog201]

As has been stated with your comments on ground balance,way more complicated than it really is.So you got a statement from a guy in the UK.Far from Florida ground.

Georgia is only 300 miles away and far different soil than here. Getting someone from the same exact area that knows all about manual ground balancing to respond ended up being a challenge.
But he knew exactly what i was talking about and knows how manual ground balance works on a detector.
I guess if i thought auto and manual ground balance were one in the same I would have ran with the first answer i got. Or not even asking the question actually.
Not everything on social media is accurate. Only fair to question something that doesn’t make sense.
Was kind of like asking, thinking of getting a new truck how does the new ford f150 ride and the answer was what do you mean how does it ride it has six wheels like everything else and rolls down the road your worrying too much.
Just sayin

 

[crashbandicoot]

Georgia is only 300 miles away and far different soil than here. Getting someone from the same exact area that knows all about manual ground balancing to respond ended up being a challenge.
But he knew exactly what i was talking about and knows how manual ground balance works on a detector.
I guess if i thought auto and manual ground balance were one in the same I would have ran with the first answer i got. Or not even asking the question actually.
Not everything on social media is accurate. Only fair to question something that doesn’t make sense.
Was kind of like asking, thinking of getting a new truck how does the new ford f150 ride and the answer was what do you mean how does it ride it has six wheels like everything else and rolls down the road your worrying too much.
Just sayin

So now you got it figured out? More power to ya and good luck on your detecting endeavors.May your coil always be on good stuff.

 

[DigDog201]

So now you got it figured out? More power to ya and good luck on your detecting endeavors.May your coil always be on good stuff.

So now you got it figured out? More power to ya and good luck on your detecting endeavors.May your coil always be on good stuff.

Appreciate the support from a fellow hobbyist. May your coil bring you many riches

 

[Swamp Fox]

I usually let the machine handle it

 

[Carl-NC]

tmops, there are soils so weak in iron mineralization that they look like air to the detector. Florida limestone soils are like this, so are UK chalk soils (also limestone). Sometimes if you crank the sensitivity to max you might hear start hearing a weak soil and can then do a proper GB. In soils where the GB cannot be heard then it usually doesn't matter where you set it. I say usually because there are some designs whereby the GB setting does have some effect on the target ID.

All detectors have their GB systems calibrated to ferrite, which is considered to have a loss angle close to 0°. But it's not exact, so on a manual GB system the calibration might occur with the GB knob set to 10% or so. This gives you the ability to adjust to a loss angle lower than the ferrite but leaves most of the GB range for higher loss angles, which is where most soils will be. So for neutral soil I would set the GB to minimum or maybe up to 10%. Again, it's more likely than not you will see no difference no matter where you set it.

 

[DigDog201]

tmops, there are soils so weak in iron mineralization that they look like air to the detector. Florida limestone soils are like this, so are UK chalk soils (also limestone). Sometimes if you crank the sensitivity to max you might hear start hearing a weak soil and can then do a proper GB. In soils where the GB cannot be heard then it usually doesn't matter where you set it. I say usually because there are some designs whereby the GB setting does have some effect on the target ID.

All detectors have their GB systems calibrated to ferrite, which is considered to have a loss angle close to 0°. But it's not exact, so on a manual GB system the calibration might occur with the GB knob set to 10% or so. This gives you the ability to adjust to a loss angle lower than the ferrite but leaves most of the GB range for higher loss angles, which is where most soils will be. So for neutral soil I would set the GB to minimum or maybe up to 10%. Again, it's more likely than not you will see no difference no matter where you set it.

Thank you for a very informative response