Logging camp Winchester 1894 saddle ring carbine

[highnam]

I posted this Carbine in my first post on this site over four years ago, titled "100 year old Washington State logging camp finds".
I found this Carbine in the first week of a three year dig! Talk about setting the hook on a young md'er!
The camp suffered a fire in 1913 that burned a row of 14 bunkhouses, my family owned the property and we have roots that go back to the R.R. logging company. After this find I was fully prepared to pull every nail out of the burn site. The next 3 years produced hundreds of buttons from work clothes and suspenders of 30 different designs. The Carbine will always be my favorite "best" find.

 

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[ARC]

Oh btw... Stellar find.

Well done.

 

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[lockster99]

Gotta be a 1894 or a '94. The '92 doesn't have the bottom "plate piece" fall down when the lever is dropped exposing the guts like yours.

Could be wrong....am often.

 

[ecmo]

No you are not wrong lockster99 and an excellent observation.I just pulled my old mod.92 out of the safe to verify that.Boy I need to take my toys out more and play with them.My main toys past 3years since I retired have been my detectors.That partially froze open action makes you wonder what the last action(no pun intended)in life that old '94 did.

 

[lockster99]

Hopefully it wasn't the owners last action too......

 

[highnam]

Hopefully it wasn't the owners last action too......

I have wondered that as well...All I know is it was found where a row of 14 bunkhouses burned in Sept. 1913. The wood from the gun most likely burned during the fire. Our family have heard from my grandfather that a man went into one of the bunkhouses to save something and never made it out. I haven't read that anywhere though.

 

[highnam]

Agreed,,, I would immediately begin the process.

Any way to see the entire thing ? the butt end ?

I have the whole gun in the photos, the butt was completely burned in the logging camp bunkhouse fire. I would seriously consider electrolysis if no one would be opposed to doing it.
I have had succes with electrolysis but only with items small enough to put in a pot of warm water/salt/calgon solution and then add crumpled up tin foil. How would I go about a electrolysis process for something so large?
Would anyone use straight Apple cider vinegar? I've had some succes with iron using vinegar. Thanks Gents

 

[kcm]

highnam, if you'll PM me your email address, I have several WONDERFUL articles about the process. I'm soon going to be doing a full size table saw top! THAT'S a big project! I'll be happy to email you the articles I have.

 

[kcm]

Actually, I can just post the URL's here:

Rust Removal Using Electrolysis

Electrolysis - Rust Removal

Stovebolt Tech Tip -- Antique Chevy / GMC Truck Restoration Help
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/rust/electrolysis.pdf

Electrolytic Rust Removal

How to Remove Table Saw Rust - Woodworking Tool Tips

How to Restore Your Rusted Old Tools

Salt and Vinegar: Nature's Rust Remover - Fine Woodworking
Removing and Preventing Rust on Machinery - Fine Woodworking Article

Removing Rust from a Table Saw

ELECTROLYTIC RUST REMOVAL (ELECTROLYSIS)

*******************

If you have any questions after THESE sites, NOBODY can help you!

EDIT: Found a site that specifically addresses processing coins using electrolysis:
http://www.njminerals.org/metaldetecting1.html

 

[highnam]

Thank you KCM. I will have to study these methods so they make sense...

 

[highnam]

KCM,
I feel like I understand how electrolysis works, but even if I had or could get all the components necessary to try it, I don't know that I would. I wasn't exactly a honor student in chemistry or tech class. Thanks for the info...I might try good old Apple cider vinegar.

 

[kcm]

Yeah, I'm actually the same way. Went the Physics route instead of Chemistry. However, my dad passed away several months ago after battling cancer. He had a nearly new table saw with cast iron top. AWESOME saw!! I'd keep it myself, but 1) I don't have a shop because 2) it's so dang wet here that everything I "do" have is rusting while in dry storage! (<-- I wish I were joking about that). Anyway, his saw top had a small bit of rust on it when he passed. A few months later, the humidity had turned it to a nice, heavy coating. It's an expensive saw, so I gotta haul it back up here and do electrolysis so I can sell the thing. Where? To whom? I haven't a clue! This area is so dang sparsely populated!

Got a buddy in the SD Black Hills that works with copper ores. He goes on and on about how ridiculously simple the process is. Me? I'm nervous. However, I have some old rusty tools I can practice with. It seems pretty simple. ....I mean, what's the worst that can happen - I blow up all of NW Minnesota?

 

[ecmo]

highnam I can understand your skepticism on doing electrolysis,I have used it with some success on dug coins but there's also the matter that you would need a rather large container for your rifle solution.Your photos show your rifle pretty far gone but without seeing it I don't know to what extent.If you just want to try getting details of mfg.info if the tang is not too fragile and flakey get some medium grade steel wool and WD40 and spraying and rubbing gently,wiping with paper towel between times.If details does come out and it fully says Model 1894 than it was mfg.1894-1908 time frame.After 1908 it will just say Model 94.The serial# is stamped typically less deeply and may be harder to bring out.If you do get outhouse lucky in all this Google up ser.# range for the '94 or if an acquaintance has a copy of the Blue Book of Gun Values the number ranges are in back of book.Best of luck!

 

[NWMP]

Cool rifle find. And I really like the suspender clips, they can be quite interesting. I have the internal guts, or sliding breach block from a Winchester 1876 rifle, stamped 45-75 on the bottom. It came from one of the original North West Mounted Police rifles. The N.W.M.P. evolved into the R.N.W.M.P., which eventually became the modern RCMP here in Canada.

 

[Tejaas]

Yes the mod.94 is still made to this day but by Fabrique National arms of Belgium under licence

In a roundabout way.

The '94 is manufactured by Miroku.

 

[Tejaas]

what years did they produce a solid 94?

I'll be the purist...

The '94 left American production in 2006...

But the '94 hasn't been the same since 1963.

 

[highnam]

Yeah, I'm actually the same way. Went the Physics route instead of Chemistry. However, my dad passed away several months ago after battling cancer. He had a nearly new table saw with cast iron top. AWESOME saw!! I'd keep it myself, but 1) I don't have a shop because 2) it's so dang wet here that everything I "do" have is rusting while in dry storage! (<-- I wish I were joking about that). Anyway, his saw top had a small bit of rust on it when he passed. A few months later, the humidity had turned it to a nice, heavy coating. It's an expensive saw, so I gotta haul it back up here and do electrolysis so I can sell the thing. Where? To whom? I haven't a clue! This area is so dang sparsely populated!

Got a buddy in the SD Black Hills that works with copper ores. He goes on and on about how ridiculously simple the process is. Me? I'm nervous. However, I have some old rusty tools I can practice with. It seems pretty simple. ....I mean, what's the worst that can happen - I blow up all of NW Minnesota?

I would love to see the saw top when finished....I go through the Black hills every for my second job as a pheasant hunting guide in SD....so beautiful in the hills I could live there.

 

[highnam]

highnam I can understand your skepticism on doing electrolysis,I have used it with some success on dug coins but there's also the matter that you would need a rather large container for your rifle solution.Your photos show your rifle pretty far gone but without seeing it I don't know to what extent.If you just want to try getting details of mfg.info if the tang is not too fragile and flakey get some medium grade steel wool and WD40 and spraying and rubbing gently,wiping with paper towel between times.If details does come out and it fully says Model 1894 than it was mfg.1894-1908 time frame.After 1908 it will just say Model 94.The serial# is stamped typically less deeply and may be harder to bring out.If you do get outhouse lucky in all this Google up ser.# range for the '94 or if an acquaintance has a copy of the Blue Book of Gun Values the number ranges are in back of book.Best of luck!

Awesome, thanks Ecmo! I will try that for sure...let you know what becomes...

 

[highnam]

I'll be the purist...

The '94 left American production in 2006...

But the '94 hasn't been the same since 1963.

Interesting...thank you for sharing that info with me. Something to take into consideration for sure.

 

[kcm]

I would love to see the saw top when finished....I go through the Black hills every for my second job as a pheasant hunting guide in SD....so beautiful in the hills I could live there.

Might make an info-article on doing electrolysis to la very large item. I have a data allotment, so making/posting a video would be out. ...Pics should work fine though. Now all we gotta do is make the 1,000+-mile trip down there to haul the saw and a bunch of other stuff back!

 

[highnam]

Strongly considering Apple cider vinegar...anyone oppose? Could pieces fall off of the gun? Is there much to gain from doing it?