Little Bahama Bank

[ivan salis]

dutch records about loses in american and nearby caribbean waters are are tough to get often ----lots of online stuff on the dutch far east wrecks but the dutch wreck info regarding american and caribbean area waters is hard to come by in most cases --which is sad considering the large amout of dutch shipping and treasure raiding that occured --- Ivan

 

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[Diver_46]

Ivan
we know the location of the 3 ballast piles, do you think the anchor is from the fourth? The distance is fairly far from the ballast piles.

 

[stevemc]

It would be hard to say, it could be from the ballast piles ship. If in fairly shallow water-20 feet or less, then it could be, or you never know, it could be from another. Sometimes you find an anchor and there is nothing anywhere around. Where the ballast is, is usually where the ships bottom broke open, very rarely is it all right there. Unless there is a sharp reef surrounded by deep water that comes up near the surface, or ship was pushed right against shore. Even if it did sink whole in fairly shallow water, hurricanes can move it all around. The ballast could have fallen out, and the now lighter wood ship with more items, could have floated or rolled around to deposit stuff all over, usually shoreward, possibly seaward or in another direction. So the anchor could have either hooked from a ship, or got knocked off when the ship rolled, after its ballast fell out. Hard to say either way. You need to search the whole area. Need help? Steve.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Or you have a ballast piles that has been picked clean by treasure hunters from the past (like most of the 1733 piles)

 

[Diver_46]

Gents
It appears the ballast is in somewhat of a shape that resembles the keel of a ship. Hard to say for sure, but all three ballast piles appear to be mostly intact. If I had to venture a guess, I would say all three were about 75 meters in length and 10 feet high or so, but it's only a guesstimate as there is alot of sand covering them.
The anchor is not shaped like other anchors that I have seen in Museums. As far as rigging and spikes..who knows, maybe it's nothing at all. Thanks for all the help guys.

 

[ivan salis]

is the shaft of the "anchor" pointing at the ballast pile area ---a ship being blown toward a reef puts out anchors to halt the ships movement toward them --the "line" draws tight and the anchor "bites" into the bottom with the shaft set in line with the strain---think of a "hooked fish"--your line is pulled the way the strain is---if so than the anchor and one or more of ballast piles might be related ---the strain is too much the line "snaps" and "ship" goes aground---- by "lining up" the anchor shaft direction and one of the ballast piles you might be able to tell you the path it took as it wrecked giving you a scatter trail area to check up on --- Ivan

F Y I
The "Sovereign of the Seas," 1600 tons, in 1637 carried 12 anchors of 4000 pounds each. In 1690 Sir Wm. Phipps in his attack on Quebec lost a thirteen-foot anchor, (recovered in modern times]. Anchors of about 1700 had long shanks, straight arms at 50 degrees, sharp points at the crown, large diameter rings, and wooden stocks the length of the shank or longer. An anchor of this style marked "1703" was reclaimed from the wreck of a 100gun ship sunk at Sheerness, England.

In 1723 Reaumur issued in France the first public exposition of the science and art of anchor construction. In 1780 iron stocks began to emerge from the experimental stage, but the popular anchors of the period still had wooden stocks and relatively long shanks and straight arms. In 1801 and succeeding years Richard Pering of England greatly improved the quality of welds in anchors, shortened the shanks and put more curvature into the arms.

 

[Diver_46]

Ivan
No reefs around the area taht I can see. It looks like it just maybe dropped where it was. The only thing that I could think that might of happened is that the ship might of been riding high on a wave and the bottom sheared off when it went to the bottom of the wave?

MC- thanks for the offer of help. I have been called a "pirate" on here already, wouldnt want you tagged with that name as well.

 

[ivan salis]

might have broke free in a storm from the main deck---busted loose and washed over board ---esp if it did not look like it was "in use" by just "laying" around in a area where there no reefs ---shallows water areas could be highly dangerou even with out reefs to wood hulled boats too--- "bottom banging" during a storm as the ship repeatly bashed into the bottom in shallow water could kill a ship just like hitting a reef could ---most ships tried to stay out of "shallow" water areas for the most part----Ivan

 

[Diver_46]

Ivan
from your description of the anchors, I would say that the 1700's or 1600's might best describe it.

 

[ScubaFinder]

It's not unheard of for a ship to just sink in bad weather. Figure in a hurricane, you'll have 12-15 foot seas, and most larger galleons had a draft of 13-15 feet, so with the right wave, a ship could strike bottom in 30+ feet of water, or just get swamped or rolled on the high seas. Not to mention they could have been sank by pirates or naval ships...I almost think that is more likely based on the close proximity together with no reefs around. I'd do a little research and look for naval battles that occured in the area and see if that maybe sheds some light.

Next time you are down, take some pics for us! seeing the anchors and even close-ups of some of the ballast stones could prove quite informative. Good luck.

Jason

 

[ivan salis]

if I were to guess ---my guess --- (if it is dutch) the dutch admiral piet heyn fleet era was in 1628 ---if I remember correctly ---- that type of anchor was widely used up till about the very early 1700's time frame l

 

[Diver_46]

Ivan
Thankyou for all the info to date.

 

[Diver_46]

ScubaFinder
I did take photos of the anchor and ballast piles. Unfortunatly the photos were taken with a cheap disposable camera and none of the pics came out. When I get some extra cash, I will buy a good underwater camera.
Take care

 

[abacopirate]

Just a short note.I live here and the Bahamians are a little touchy about foreign boats fishing in their waters. The crawfish boats are all armed. One diver as killed last week, run over by a US boat on autopilot. There is a private plane out of Marsh Harbour that flies around and reports things. There are many wrecks in the Gingerbread Grounds. Keep your head low.

 

[Chagy]

Dont forget that in 1641 the fleet of Nueve Espana commanded by Captain General juan de Campos lost 4 merchant naos on a hurricane in Bahamas.....

Does your anchor looks like this one?

All the best,

Chagy.....

 

[ivan salis]

from the discription he gave of the "anchor" --- that one looks about like a twin ---what the low down on theat one timewize?--- nice anchor by the way---- Ivan

 

[Diver_46]

Chagy
The Anchor that I saw apeared much bigger and did not have thethings on the end of the tines. the tines were at a steeper angle and longer. The ring was twice the size of the one in the photo.

abacopirate-thanks for the info.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does anyone have info on three Dutch salvage ships that went down in or near Little Bahama Bank while searching for Spanish wrecks?
Thanks

Cornelius is an expert on Dutch shipwrecks. He spends considerable time studying in the Nederlands. He could help you if he is still a TN member.

 

[ivan salis]

corn is hanging around again just saw a post of his --- Ivan

 

[SADS 669]

Dont forget that in 1641 the fleet of Nueve Espana commanded by Captain General juan de Campos lost 4 merchant naos on a hurricane in Bahamas.....

Does your anchor looks like this one?

All the best,

Chagy.....

Hi

The problem with those anchors ( found one yesterday) is that lots of Haitian sailboats use them, I found it wedged in a tiny hole in the bar so left it there as it is clearly from a freighter with very modern rope on it