Lion buckle, and a button.

[DigginDownUnder]

Hey guys, I found this buckle at an 1800's site.



And this button was found at a mid to late 1900's site.
The backmark is "STOKES MELB"
The front depicts two crossed swords over a sash.

It looks fairly modern to me.


Any info or ideas on these finds would be much appreciated.

Cheers.

 

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[fyrffytr1]

Not sure exactly what your button is but it probably dates from the 1856-1873 time period if I read this link right. I think it may be pictured upside down. Could you post a picture of the back?

Browsing by theme 'Stokes & Son, Medal Makers, Melbourne, Victoria & Sydney, New South Wales' - Museum Victoria

 

[ekeisler]

That's a sash buckle. Can't find much on it but I think it's civil war or older.

 

[DigginDownUnder]

Thanks guys.
I was guessing the buckle is british victorian era considering were it was found.

Maybe the button is a reproduction, as the shank looks reasonably modern?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Victorian era finds..

 

[ipsilateral]

I'll be curious about the lion.

 

[fyrffytr1]

I would like to see a better picture of the shank. I don't think reproductions can carry the original makers mark but I may be wrong on that. I still say the button was made between 1856 and 1873 and it may be from the later years of that period.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks guys.
I was guessing the buckle is british victorian era considering were it was found.

Maybe the button is a reproduction, as the shank looks reasonably modern?
View attachment 1035942

Not reproduction...its called a drilled shank. Early Buttons Picture is hard to see But yours looks 2 piece like it has a gold guilt face over the casting.

Cast via the lost wax method by artisans who varied greatly in terms of maintaining standards of quality control, each button had an integrally cast, rounded to rectangular slab or wedge of metal fixed in an upright position to the button's reverse face. An eye was formed by drilling or punching a hole in the upright shank either prior to or following the casting process.

 

[DigginDownUnder]

Thanks bigc and everyone.
It's a nice surprise I hadn't seen those type of shanks before, so I was just assuming it was modern.
Makes it worthwhile to look for the significance if any, behind the insignia.

Here is a better picture of the shank.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

What is a sash?

 

[Silver Searcher]

What is a sash?

A Sash is a large and usually colorful ribbon or band of material worn around the body, this buckle is not a sash buckle, a sash buckle had a central bar, which was used to adjust the ribbon/band.

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks SS. Its a nice gold gilded button, not modern but I am not familiar with buttons from Australia.

 

[DigginDownUnder]

I just identified the button as an Australian army band corps button. I'm unsure of the year, and the button is pictured upside down.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just identified the button as an Australian army band corps button. I'm unsure of the year, and the button is pictured upside down.

Maybe it is modern? The color on yours looks gold gilt not anodized like the picture. Australian Army Band Corps Button- Small (Qty x1) [BAND0007] - $2.00 : BPC Militaria, Australian Military Insignia

Were you able to date it? TN is a constant learning experience.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

They call it a fast shank which resembles the old drilled shank. However it looks like all the old drilled shank buttons are one piece cast. Your Army Corps Band button is at least 2 piece having a machine stamped face crimped on... and I guess it could be modern as it matches exactly, other than the color. This may be one way of determining these type of shanks.

ADDED: Researching when the STOKES company was manufacturing buttons in MELBourne from the link post by fyrffytr1 may be the best way to date your button. The company moved several times.

 

[fyrffytr1]

If it is a band corp button it is no older than 1968.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If it is a band corp button it is no older than 1968.

Yes I read that and you are probably right but it seems to me military bands had a longer history in Australia. Military music | australia.gov.au

It also seems odd to me that Stokes has moved from Melbourne years ago.

The button shank does however have a modern funky look to it now that we see a clearer picture and it is a 2 piece with a machine stamped face which is not seen on the old 1 piece cast drilled shank buttons. It still seems odd that it would have an old backmark. But I dont know squat about Australian buttons or its history.

So I guess its a modern "fast shank" to resemble the old drilled shank button and it may even have an old Melbourne backmark for commemoration I guess.., unless the company moved back to Melbourne.