Legend of the Stone Maps

[EarnieP]

Doubt it.
If there had been any "way bigger than that" discoveries recently made in the Superstition,
we would already know about it. No keeping a secret like that until a TV show's release. There would have been leaks and reports and as Sgt. has said (paraphrasing) a gold rush circus descending upon 'Jacob's scared ground'.


[Edit;] There's two good titles for you authors;

'Gold Rush Circus' & 'Jacob's Sacred Ground'


You're welcome, no charge.

 

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[somehiker]

Wayne I see what's coming down the road. I don't want to see a few friends in TX hurt. Any treasure hunter needs to be up on this stuff also. I told a guy in the past. Do you want the treasure or fame. He chose fame and he was shut down. Lost his lifetime savings fighting it. Almost went to prison. During filming the Legend show they filmed me shooting a snake. I had no choice the crew was in harms way. Thousands of snake lovers filed complaints. It was a issue I had to address. Imagine finding a Jesuit treasure. The list of claimants would be endless. I hear word is getting around already. We had a Sheriff with us while filming. Just in case. We were being followed. A real treasure recovery? You broadcast that in social media. I don't want to think about it.

Like you, I hope this all ends well for all concerned. But I agree that both fame and dreams of wads of cash from selling treasure are a fool's errand. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a make a movie or historical documentary about others who looked for, found and sold lost treasures of course, and some folks do make some money and earn fame by doing that, but I'm sure there's a price to be paid. And sometimes it's not the kind of fame, or as much cash as they expected.
Legal fees are expensive, and empty bank accounts faster than most treasure hunters could ever hope to fill them. Even movie makers have had their stuff tied up in the courtroom, sometimes for years, because of disputes over the plot or how it portrays the people it's all about. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Clarence Mitchell's descendants, children and grand children, have already initiated something in that regard. Might be a good idea in this case, for Ryan's group to make sure they also are on board the same train. Likewise, I would think any discovery of artifacts or documents which reinforce less than complimentary suspicions about the pre-expulsion activities of the SJ will be either totally suppressed, or at least hampered by an injunction of some kind.
As Old has said.....there will be many obstacles to overcome. But I hope they can do it.

 

[somehiker]

Speaking of Canadians. Wayne I picked up a new Colt 45 and it shoots just fine. I liked the one Toms dad left him so much I just had to have one. 7 rounds through the same hole.
View attachment 1401744

Nice. Reliability, accuracy, and knockdown power in spades.
The 1911 and it's 9mm Browning Hi Power cousin have always been favorites of mine.
Not surprising, since both were designed by the same guy.
Too much trouble to own and use one up here though.....but maybe once I have an address down there.

 

[somehiker]

Ryan is a likable guy, the 'Family' certainly took to him.
He no doubt made the same impression on the Jesuits while researching with them.
If they are included in his upcoming TV show, it's probably more to do with that friendship than it is with any treasure.

I know my own local countryside area very well.
I could no doubt take that knowledge and carve a pretty accurate rock map (or series of them.) It could lead you around to actual physical landscape locations without much trouble, but it could never lead you to any non-existent treasure.
I feel the same about the Peralta Stones. Travis knew the area.
The 'trail' may be real, but IMO the odds of using it to find any treasure is zilch!

Could be that's the only reason.
But it's also possible that they want some kind of control over the narrative as well.
I can't imagine the order will allow themselves and their history in the Southwest to be put under the microscope, should anything controversial be found.
They and the mother church itself are very protective of their reputation, and so I wouldn't expect any changes there.

Well, we do know that Travis made stone carvings, and it's said that he made at least five sets of the " Peralta Stones"....that they already know of.
But why 5 sets ? ...... Practice ?
Which might explain why there are some differences between them.....or is there a better explanation ?
And then there is also the five smaller stones previously mentioned and part of these discussions. There's been nothing posted about them more recently however.
I was hoping to see them. Or at least some photos of them at some point.

Travis wasn't the only one familiar with the range. And for many researchers and/or locals, there have been other folks suspected of having fabricated
these so-called " Peralta Stones ". But then again, IF the Jesuits cached their stuff out there somewhere, they were also quite capable of making and burying some kind of stone map(s) as well IMO. How do we know for sure that they didn't, or never would have done so themselves ?

 

[sdcfia]

Wayne I see what's coming down the road. I don't want to see a few friends in TX hurt. Any treasure hunter needs to be up on this stuff also. I told a guy in the past. Do you want the treasure or fame. He chose fame and he was shut down. Lost his lifetime savings fighting it. Almost went to prison. During filming the Legend show they filmed me shooting a snake. I had no choice the crew was in harms way. Thousands of snake lovers filed complaints. It was a issue I had to address. Imagine finding a Jesuit treasure. The list of claimants would be endless. I hear word is getting around already. We had a Sheriff with us while filming. Just in case. We were being followed. A real treasure recovery? You broadcast that in social media. I don't want to think about it.

If they play their cards right, they might parlay this thing into an ongoing teevee series similar to the Oak Island dog and pony show - lots of intriguing history, plenty of insiders, remarkable discoveries, thought provoking interviews, a cliffhanger every week, much ado, no gold. "We're almost there!" Those Oak Island brothers have made good money and gained plenty of face time during the past few years poking around that old water well in Nova Scotia.

Actually recover a treasure? Nobody in their right mind would advertise such a thing, not even Texans, IMO. Let's face it, Ryan is likely smart enough to realize this fact. I hope so. I suspect these guys are merely trying to cash in on an enduring legend that has otherwise failed to pay off. More power to them.

 

[sgtfda]

Other than a few that view the forums there is very little public interest in the stones. If treasure was found that would improve interest. Especially if there was a public cat fight over recovered items. Even then you need a interesting cast the public can relate to. Above all address these issues during your permitting process with the Forest Service if your filming there.
For those in the area this weekend is Lost Dutchman Days. The museum will have events all weekend. If the weather holds up Wayne Tuttle and I will do a little filming there Sunday. Stop and say hi.

 

[wrmickel1]

Doubt it.
If there had been any "way bigger than that" discoveries recently made in the Superstition,
we would already know about it. No keeping a secret like that until a TV show's release. There would have been leaks and reports and as Sgt. has said (paraphrasing) a gold rush circus descending upon 'Jacob's scared ground'.


[Edit;] There's two good titles for you authors;

'Gold Rush Circus' & 'Jacob's Sacred Ground'


You're welcome, no charge.

Well we can't use gold rush, most of the movie would be fixing are brand new machines. But I could use the rest.

Jacob's Ground the Sacred Circus!

But you were talking about the Maps, The Maps are way bigger then one guy knowing the area and making them.
One man could not do the work encoded in those maps.
The field work is amazing. But I do agree someone new the area very well. So well they shaped it.

Babymick1

 

[somehiker]

Other than a few that view the forums there is very little public interest in the stones. If treasure was found that would improve interest. Especially if there was a public cat fight over recovered items. Even then you need a interesting cast the public can relate to. Above all address these issues during your permitting process with the Forest Service if your filming there.
For those in the area this weekend is Lost Dutchman Days. The museum will have events all weekend. If the weather holds up Wayne Tuttle and I will do a little filming there Sunday. Stop and say hi.

Once again I find myself seeing things your way Frank.
If the series starts out with an an announcement of a great and historic "lost treasure" find, it should generate some good numbers on the ratings sheets, and therefor the pages of the industry rags. That's the only reason those multi-season treasure shows are funded in the first place, and like the Oak Island thing, even a promised or merely promising unveiling of said treasure at some point can keep keep the numbers stable or growing for several years. Throw in some controversy, physical challenges and good vs. bad guy stuff, and your guaranteed a wider audience than just our ragtag bunch of thieves and brigands.....speaking for myself of course.
Wish I could be down there for that, but the warden wont sign my temporary absence form.
Too many rocks up here to break.

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne I have many friends in the OPP. I'll get you a pass.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

Beetles What subspieces do they belong to

 

[Azquester]

The Stone map saga will fizzle like the vaults of Al Capone! (Geraldo Rivera)
Oak Island is another good example. Sometimes seeking fame through others fabricated stories turns off the TV masses. He was smart to involve the Jesuit's!

That way he could at least have a Priest there for giving the TV show it's last rights as it's buried like a Travis carved fake stone map...

"Through this holy anointing may the Lord in his love and mercy help you with the grace of the Holy Spirit.
May the Lord who frees you from the sin of Tumlinson's Stone Map show, save you and raise you up."

Amen...Boom! Shaka! Lacka!!

 

[sgtfda]

Bill what is your opinion about the revelations that Travis found treasure? Plus more buried out there. The Garman photos I have of Travis and Uncle Phil digging in a area Jr is not familiar with has me thinking. That and Garmans photo of the complete Peg Leg map.

 

[Carl995]

The Stone map saga will fizzle like the vaults of Al Capone! (Geraldo Rivera)
Oak Island is another good example. Sometimes seeking fame through others fabricated stories turns off the TV masses. He was smart to involve the Jesuit's!

That way he could at least have a Priest there for giving the TV show it's last rights as it's buried like a Travis carved fake stone map...

"Through this holy anointing may the Lord in his love and mercy help you with the grace of the Holy Spirit.
May the Lord who frees you from the sin of Tumlinson's Stone Map show, save you and raise you up."

Amen...Boom! Shaka! Lacka!!

Bill, where do you come up with this stuff Is it decoded in the stone maps? or..................just curious!

 

[azdave35]

Bill, where do you come up with this stuff Is it decoded in the stone maps? or..................just curious!

he pulls it out of his

 

[Old]

Frank I look forward to these photos. I sincerely hope they are better than the last two you posted. You really should seek some assistance in identifying Photo Shop products. The last two were embarrassing. There may be underlying true "unshopped" slides. I hope for your sake there are. But the examples you shared were identifiable for what they were by a 5 year old. They even contained the floating Mac curser from the machine that altered them.

 

[sgtfda]

The slides are the real deal and I have a copy on disk. The photos posted were on the owners computer screen when I photographed several that I posted. I examined the actual slides. So you see your not a crafty as you think you are. The photos are not for your viewing pleasure. There are other plans for the photos and map. I don't want to ruin the surprise. So run now back to Jr and report. Maybe you can figure out why Travis allowed Garman to photograph his map and his treasure hunting party in action. Jr may think he knows it all but I assure you he does not. The target is not where he thinks. Not even close. Half a map just won't do it. But I have my own project and no interest in Jrs I just find it curious that so much is being posted.
I greatly admire Garman and think his story should be told. Don't you?

 

[nobodie]

How about everyone show their maps and skip everything else.

 

[sgtfda]

How about everyone show their maps and skip everything else.

Nobodie
You would be the first I would invite to the slide show. You can look at my map anytime. Wonder why they feel so threatened by a few photos? You can always tell you hit a soft spot. Jr and Old go tilt!
I will not post additional information on this subject. Only posted the the 2 photos for my friends enjoyment. Not to wind up in a cat fight. If a friend walks up to me and wants to view a actual slide. Just ask. I know who my friends are.

 

[nobodie]

Thank you.

 

[somehiker]

We shouldn't be surprised that those who have had this stuff for years have finally decided to share some of it. Gary's research and sharing of his own hard work prompted others at the time to also share some of their stone map "treasures". And now, Ryan and Linda's posts are having the same effect. After all, what's the point in hiding your own face cards, once the others start hitting the table ? Travis was around for about 20 years, at at time when the mountains were infested with cowboys, prospectors and LDM hunters....some of them authors and others famous for other reasons. Hard to go twenty years out there, without getting to know some of them and be known for what your up to by many more....especially as a regular visitor some might view as a rival.
We've all heard the original reason for Travis having carved those rocks. To deflect and deceive any rival T-Hunters that got too interested in his "maps". But if no-one outside the family had ever seen them in the first place, and there was no intention on his or their part to show them around, why go to the bother ? Big or small, while stone might better withstand the tests of time, it's a LOT more of a pain to haul around than parchment, skin, or paper. Then again, if your gonna tell the rubes and suckers like Mitchell that you found them buried in the desert, then stone makes more sense than any of those other materials.