Lead that shines?

[pcolaboy]

I found this huge blob of melted metal last weekend (sorry for the huge pic). It was encased in a shroud of tar, sand, and some sort of textile material. My Bounty Hunter is reading this in the silver range. I took a rubber mallet and gave it a few mild bumps. Most of the outer encrustation shell broke off revealing what you see in the picture below. This is exactly what it looked like without any washing or cleaning whatsoever.

Link to full-size pic: http://members.cox.net/tempfl/blob1.jpg

I realize that odds are it's lead but it doesn't have the weight or dull grey appearance of my previous lead finds. This object weighs somewhere between 1 - 1.5 lbs. The item was found in a pre-Civil War brick kiln that was actually destroyed by the retreating Confederates and nothing else has been in operation anywhere near this location ever since. Any ideas on how to distinguish if this is lead or silver?

Pcolaboy

 

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[TreasureTales]

Hey, avoid the hassle of using and buying chemicals and just take the glob to a friendly jeweler and ask him/her to do some testing for you.

 

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[Kansasippi]

Or a pawn shop,they have a tester handy and usually will test anything if they think you might be a customer....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI, Cub fan is quite correct. Since I handle chemicals and dangerous ones come with the appropriate warnings and antidotes, I incorrectly assumed that you would read all handling instructions.

His remarks are quite in order since we merely have to look at the way common household spray insecticides and sink cleaners etc., are handled in the average home sheesh.

Thanks cub, I will modify it. Incidentally, I have been zapped with a sub- almost -lethal dose of Cyanide through carelessness while assaying. It left me with a sensitiveness to it so that I can now smell an open cannister 20 meters away. It gives me a sense of a sickly sweet odor. I have won several bets on this unwelcome ability. heeheh.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Cubfan64]

HI, Cub fan is quite correct. Since I handle chemicals and dangerous ones come with the appropriate warnings and antidotes, I incorrectly assumed that you would read all handling instructions.

His remarks are quite in order since we merely have to look at the way common household spray insecticides and sink cleaners etc., are handled in the average home sheesh.

Thanks cub, I will modify it. Incidentally, I have been zapped with a sub- almost -lethal dose of Cyanide through carelessness while assaying. It left me with a sensitiveness to it so that I can now smell an open cannister 20 meters away. It gives me a sense of a sickly sweet odor. I have won several bets on this unwelcome ability. heeheh.Tropical Tramp

No problem, and you're right that those of us who handle chemicals on a regular basis often forget that the average person might not consider the hazards. I often tell people that when I wear protective things like gloves, aprons, goggles, etc... when handling chemicals or training people to use chemicals I'm not implying that we should be fearful of all chemicals - what I'm implying is that we should have a healthy respect for them

I have all sorts of stories related to chemical exposure - here are just a few:

1. I had an organic professor who during every lab session just pulled a beaker off the shelf, set it on a bunsun burner and made coffee during lab. He was probably in his 50's at the time and could hardly talk due to all the wheezing and coughing and shortly after I graduated he died of cancer - was it related to his lab habits? Who knows, but I wouldn't bet against it.

2. An embarrasing story to tell about myself since I know better... I had a plugged drain in a bathtub once where we were renting. I tried a plunger and other fairly mild drain cleaning agents with absolutely no success (including liquid plumber). It was such a bad plug that after trying some of those chemicals, there was a standing mixture of water, liquid plumber etc... above the drain now and plunging it just seemed to bring up this black "yuck" that made it even messier. I went to the hardware store and found something that was like an industrial strength, strongest stuff for cleaning drains and without reading any of the warnings just poured it down (I was frustrated and in a hurry to get this cleaned out!). Needless to say I had just added a solution that was in the range of 70-85% sulfuric acid into a solution that contained sodium hydroxide (base) and sodium hypochlorite. I created what I could only describe as a vigorous chemical reaction in the bathtub that resulted in excessive heat and a cloud of chlorine gas. By the time I got the window open, a fan in there and got out, I was struck with a fit of heavy coughing that lasted for nearly 20 minutes during which time my wife called poison control and as embarrased as I was, I nearly had her take me to the emergency room!

3. I used to mess with antique furniture refinishing and found that despite all the claims by other companies selling paint strippers, the absolute best by far were those that contained high levels of methylene chloride. I used to use methylene chloride at work all the time and actually kind of liked the smell (sort of a sweet smell). I pretty much exclusively used high methylene chloride materials and often noticed that it soaked right through the gloves I was wearing (there are very specific gloves that hold up to methylene chloride). One day I started getting an itchy feeling and when I took the gloves off, my hands were all red, blotchy and itched like crazy. By the time I got upstairs to wash them, my fingers were swelling up to the point where I couldn't bend them down to make a fist. I washed them and tried to just relax and eventually the swelling went down (2-3 hours later). I just chalked it up to a weird reaction, but every time I've come in contact with Methylene Chloride - even in tiny amounts - I now have the same reaction to it. I have become sensitized to the chemical and can no longer use it for anything.

Just thought those might make some interesting stories :-)

 

[pcolaboy]

pcolaboy, if it were lead it wouldnt ring in as silver on your detector i dont think. could it be a blob of melted aluminum?

It certainly does have the very bright appearance of aluminum but it's far too heavy - at least compared with solid stock pieces that I've handled before machining work.

My friend that does some forging is going to melt this down in relatively thin (1/2") casts to see what "floats to the top" and to skim off any residual carbon.

Pcolaboy

 

[hollowpointred]

pcolaboy, if it were lead it wouldnt ring in as silver on your detector i dont think. could it be a blob of melted aluminum?

It certainly does have the very bright appearance of aluminum but it's far too heavy - at least compared with solid stock pieces that I've handled before machining work.

My friend that does some forging is going to melt this down in relatively thin (1/2") casts to see what "floats to the top" and to skim off any residual carbon.

Pcolaboy

good luck with it. i hope it turns out to be silver. keep us posted!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

With all due respect (because I've read many of Realde Toyopa's posts and I believe he is an excellent source of information), do yourself a service and don't mess with chemicals like potassium dichromate (or bichromate) and concentrated nitric acid without informing yourself of potential hazards and safety in handling first!!

I am a chemist, and can tell you that concentrated nitric acid can cause very bad skin burns and potassium dichromate is a toxic and cancer causing chemical. As with any other chemicals (like many of the cleaners you use in your home and probably don't take the time to read and adhere to the warnings), they can easily cause harm if mishandled through negligence.

I'm not trying to scare anyone away from using them because indeed it is a good and accurate test, but being careful and wearing protective things like the proper gloves and perhaps goggles is imho necessary for even professionals dealing with these things much less the average Joe.

Do yourself a favor and do a quick search on nitric acid and potassium dichromate and make sure you understand the hazards and are fully prepared before you start working with them!!

I use RealDeal's Potassium Dichromate/Nitric Acid mix with much success, but yes, Nitric Acid is very dangerous. I didnt know about the PotassiumDichromate. I only use it with a dropper and like any acids i am very careful and never let it touch skin. I love the bright red color of a drop on silver.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=bigcypresshunter . I love the bright red color of a drop on silver.
**************

MORNING BIG CY, MAY THE COMING YEAR SEE YOU FORCED TO BUY THE COMPONENTS IN MULTI GALLON SIZES, IN ORDER TO TEST ALL OF YOUR FINDS..

Tropical Tramp

 

[ColonialDude]

melted aluminum cans I would think

 

[Cubfan64]

=bigcypresshunter . I love the bright red color of a drop on silver.
**************

MORNING BIG CY, MAY THE COMING YEAR SEE YOU FORCED TO BUY THE COMPONENTS IN MULTI GALLON SIZES, IN ORDER TO TEST ALL OF YOUR FINDS..

Tropical Tramp

Hehe - now that's a good new years wish

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

=bigcypresshunter . I love the bright red color of a drop on silver.
**************

MORNING BIG CY, MAY THE COMING YEAR SEE YOU FORCED TO BUY THE COMPONENTS IN MULTI GALLON SIZES, IN ORDER TO TEST ALL OF YOUR FINDS..

Tropical Tramp

Hehe - now that's a good new years wish

Unfortunately I have a lifetime supply.

 

[Cubfan64]

=bigcypresshunter . I love the bright red color of a drop on silver.
**************

MORNING BIG CY, MAY THE COMING YEAR SEE YOU FORCED TO BUY THE COMPONENTS IN MULTI GALLON SIZES, IN ORDER TO TEST ALL OF YOUR FINDS..

Tropical Tramp

Hehe - now that's a good new years wish

Unfortunately I have a lifetime supply.

Now now, you have to stay positive!!! You never know when you'll hit that motherlode of stuff you have to identify

Those look about like some of the old bottles I've had to lab pack for disposal after we found them tucked away back in some retired chemist's cabinet. The worst things about those old bottles are:

1) The caps on old conc. nitric glass bottles usually end up cracking and degrading to the point where they don't seal well anymore (yours doesn't look so good either - hehe)

2) Those old plastic containers for the dichromate sometimes get brittle and crack apart as well.

You can always make up your own labels and transfer the contents into new bottles - any glass bottle would work for the nitric, and if you can get ahold of an HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastic bottle, it'll last quite awhile for the dichromate.

How many times have you turned your fingers brown/yellow from the nitric? I used to do that on a regular basis in school where surprisingly they couldn't have cared less about safety.

In all seriousness, if you would like, I could send you a couple new containers for both of those things - PM me with your address and I'll see what I can find at work for you.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

1) The caps on old conc. nitric glass bottles usually end up cracking and degrading to the point where they don't seal well anymore (yours doesn't look so good either - hehe)

2) Those old plastic containers for the dichromate sometimes get brittle and crack apart as well.

You can always make up your own labels and transfer the contents into new bottles - any glass bottle would work for the nitric, and if you can get ahold of an HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastic bottle, it'll last quite awhile for the dichromate.

How many times have you turned your fingers brown/yellow from the nitric? I used to do that on a regular basis in school where surprisingly they couldn't have cared less about safety.

In all seriousness, if you would like, I could send you a couple new containers for both of those things - PM me with your address and I'll see what I can find at work for you.

All I need for the Nitric is another cap that fits better. Is plastic cap OK? I would hate to transfer that whole bottle. Right now it is sitting upright in my warehouse somewhere safe. Does it ever go bad? Thanks for the dichromate warning. I will have to check on it. If you think I should change bottles I will. I could use another bottle for the mix, the top leaks. I have to always keep upright. Thanks.

 

[Cubfan64]

1) The caps on old conc. nitric glass bottles usually end up cracking and degrading to the point where they don't seal well anymore (yours doesn't look so good either - hehe)

2) Those old plastic containers for the dichromate sometimes get brittle and crack apart as well.

You can always make up your own labels and transfer the contents into new bottles - any glass bottle would work for the nitric, and if you can get ahold of an HDPE (high density polyethylene) plastic bottle, it'll last quite awhile for the dichromate.

How many times have you turned your fingers brown/yellow from the nitric? I used to do that on a regular basis in school where surprisingly they couldn't have cared less about safety.

In all seriousness, if you would like, I could send you a couple new containers for both of those things - PM me with your address and I'll see what I can find at work for you.

All I need for the Nitric is another cap that fits better. Is plastic cap OK? I would hate to transfer that whole bottle. Right now it is sitting upright in my warehouse somewhere safe. Does it ever go bad? Thanks for the dichromate warning. I will have to check on it. If you think I should change bottles I will. I could use another bottle for the mix, the top leaks. I have to always keep upright. Thanks.

Send me your home address via PM and I'll see if I can hook you up with some containers to get you through another 10+ years.

The nitric acid won't really go bad - not for what you're using it for. It's probably gotten diluted slowly over time since it absorbs moisture out of the air, and with the lid not really sealing well, I'm sure yours has diluted itself a bit, but I doubt that makes any difference for testing metals.

The one thing you do want to make sure of is that you don't store the nitric or dichromate near anything flammable - if for some reason something flammable comes in contact with an oxidizer like nitric acid or pot. dichr., it could actually start a fire.

A plastic cap will work okay for the nitric at least for awhile - usually they end up getting brittle and breaking/cracking.

If the dichromate bottle is still ok, I wouldn't bother replacing it - you'd know if it was getting so old that it was cracking - it actually looks pretty good.

I'll take a look around our labs and see if I can find something useful to replace that dropper bottle you have for the mixed solution. Ideally it would probably be nice if I can find an amber glass bottle with a screw top lid that has a dropped bulb attached. If we have one, I'll send it to you along with a replacement cap if I can find one. I like those ones with the attached dropper bulb, but over time those stupid rubber bulbs deteriorate badly too and you can't suck the solution up with it anymore - it might be easier if I just send you an amber bottle with a screw top lid.

Glad to be able to help - we're actually in the process of cleaning out our labs dramatically and there's been all sorts of interesting things getting tossed in the dumpsters - bet I can find some stuff to help you out.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Send me your home address via PM and I'll see if I can hook you up with some containers to get you through another 10+ years.

The nitric acid won't really go bad - not for what you're using it for. It's probably gotten diluted slowly over time since it absorbs moisture out of the air, and with the lid not really sealing well, I'm sure yours has diluted itself a bit, but I doubt that makes any difference for testing metals.

Ill do that. thanks.

I put a plastic plug under the screw cap on the nitric to try to seal. I dont know if I could use a rubber stopper? Even if it got diluted, the test mix is diluted with distilled water anyway. Now that I know its still good, I will bring it home to test some similar metal blobs that I have. I just use a solid glass rod as a dropper.

 

[Gunner]

My Guess...Phosphorus.. Does the Military (Army Rangers) train where you were hunting? I've seen similar "blobs" from the tripped perimeter wires. This metal burns VERY white and lights up the sky when the device is tripped. Did you find it at the base of a tree?

Gunner

 

[pcolaboy]

OK I have a pretty good ID on the blob of metal. I had forgotten that my grandfather was a metalsmith for twenty years in the Navy before he retired and worked civil service.

He felt pretty certain that it was type-setting lead. Apparently it has greater strength than most lead alloys but its still lead just the same.

RATS !!!

 

[Monty]

I use to use type setting lead to cast hard lead bullets for my .44 magnum pistol and my .45-70 rifle. It is very hard with an alloy of tin and antimony to harden it. Bullets cast with type set lead won't leave residue in the gun barrel. Printers stopped using it a few years back and now it's really hard to find. Monty

 

[BIG61AL]

Looks like a smelting slag...unpure [read dirty] left overs when casting metal