Lead piece with 1833 and Eagle Stamped on it. Has a E on the Shield & Bottle Pieces

[bonepicker]

Lead piece with 1833 and Eagle Stamped on it. Has a E on the Shield & Bottle Pieces

Went back to my 1850's homesite, where I found a IHP last weekend.
Found this very neat piece of lead, with the date 1833 and an eagle stamped on it.
The eagle looks to be holding arrows, and a shield. Looks like there is a "E" on the shield.
Im assuming its lead, because its a little soft and pliable and also very heavy.
It also has that white patina that a lot of older lead items have. I rubbed a little renaissance wax on it to preserve it and bring out some detail, but now some of the wax has collected in a couple grooves.
I am guessing its some kind of lead seal. Can someone please help identify.
Was also wondering about the hole drilled in it. Was that an attachment point of some sort, or was it possibly done at a later time.
I put the ihp in the photo for scale purposes.
Also noticing it could be the corner of some sort of leaden plate. The left and bottom side is some what smooth with a curve at the bottom left corner. The top and right seems to look cut or torn.
The item in question is probably 1/16" thick.
Also found some bottle pieces I was wondering if someone could tell me about them.
One says AB on the bottom and the other one has a deep indention at the bottom and is very thick.
Any help on these items would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.

 

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[Mud Hut]

Seems to me that I have seen something very similar ID'ed as an old "fantasy ingot."

 

[duggap]

I'm pretty sure that is a one piece button. In Albert's book, on page 23, it shows an 1815 to 1821 era button. Notice the shield just above the hole. On the button, the eagle would be looking to our right to make it come out to the left above.

 

[sutphin]

HEY PICKER THE GLASS I HAVE BEEN TOLD BELONG TO THE BOTTOMS OF WINE BOTTLES. I HAVE SEEN SOME RELATED TO THE CIVIL WAR. I WAS TOLD THEY COULD BE FOUND AT HUT AN CAMP SITES. I HAVE THE SAME ITEM AND THE 1833 EAGLE ? IS INTERESTING.

 

[Gridwalker306]

I don't know what that thing is, but it's really cool. Anything found in America with that stylized eagle is always a good find in my opinion, and the old date of 1833 is great. Nice find, looks like that full tones program is working for you. What are your thoughts on it?

 

[bonepicker]

Seems to me that I have seen something very similar ID'ed as an old "fantasy ingot."

Thanks for replying Mud Hut. Now I just need to know what a Fantasy Ingot is.

I'm pretty sure that is a one piece button. In Albert's book, on page 23, it shows an 1815 to 1821 era button. Notice the shield just above the hole. On the button, the eagle would be looking to our right to make it come out to the left above.

Thx Duggap. I don't have alberts book, but it does look like an old flat button design, and thanks for the flat button insight. Any idea what the E is for on the shield, and why this would be stamped on a piece of metal/lead with a date below it.? Early trench art or some type of commemorative.?
Im puzzled what it could be, and/or why it was made.

HEY PICKER THE GLASS I HAVE BEEN TOLD BELONG TO THE BOTTOMS OF WINE BOTTLES. I HAVE SEEN SOME RELATED TO THE CIVIL WAR. I WAS TOLD THEY COULD BE FOUND AT HUT AN CAMP SITES. I HAVE THE SAME ITEM AND THE 1833 EAGLE ? IS INTERESTING.

Thx Sutphin. The CW period on the glass sounds like that could be right. The home that was on this site was built in the 1850's.
Wish I knew what this eagle thing is, curiousity is killing me.

I don't know what that thing is, but it's really cool. Anything found in America with that stylized eagle is always a good find in my opinion, and the old date of 1833 is great. Nice find, looks like that full tones program is working for you. What are your thoughts on it?

Thanks J.Cache. Full Tones all the way. Thanks for that program you shared. I love those early eagle designs too. I don't find much from the early 19th century. Was hoping for a coin, but this thing is pretty cool, and more interesting than a coin, in my opinion.
Hand-made, one of a kind, possibly?
If it isn't a seal, maybe trench art, or something to commemorate a special event.
Was really hoping someone here has ever seen something like this, because I never have.

 

[jwarner51]

I have no idea what your lead thing is sorry. But it is very cool! Hopefully someone can identify it as now I am curious!

 

[nhbenz]

Here's something on the bottle marked AB; AB (connected) logo/mark on antique beer bottles

 

[Tedyoh]

Can you post a picture of the back of your very cool lead object? Thanks.

 

[nhbenz]

When looking at the eagle's shield enlarged it looks to me like the letters FI, which got me wondering if it were a chunk from an old Fire Insurance mark (plaque). But those were usually iron or brass as far as I know?

 

[bonepicker]

I have no idea what your lead thing is sorry. But it is very cool! Hopefully someone can identify it as now I am curious!

Thanks jwarner. Definitely cool. Im still hoping someone has seen something like this before, and can give me an explanation like such as where, when, how, or why.

Here's something on the bottle marked AB; AB (connected) logo/mark on antique beer bottles

Thanks for the info on the bottle Nhbenz. The first thing that came to mind on the AB was Anheiser Busch, guess Adolfus Busch wasn't too far off. I went to the authors list of varieties he had compiled and the mark "T 37" on this bottle was not among his list.
Any ideas on that stamped piece of lead.?

Can you post a picture of the back of your very cool lead object? Thanks.

Thanks for taking an interest Tedyoh. Didn't include a picture of the back initially, because there were no markings that I could see, although I probably should have. The only thing I can see on the back are 2 slight circular indentions. One circular indention is around the eagle and the other is around the date. This to me is indicative of something that has been stamped, which led me to believe initially that this was some sort of seal or dating process of some sort of goods or material.
Here ya go Mr Tedyoh....

 

[bonepicker]

When looking at the eagle's shield enlarged it looks to me like the letters FI, which got me wondering if it were a chunk from an old Fire Insurance mark (plaque). But those were usually iron or brass as far as I know?

Thanks nhbenz. I never heard of a Fire Insurance Plaque, guess you learn something new every day. Looks like an E to me. Im just assuming its lead due to weight and patina. The item had a slight bend in it. I carefully bent it back a little by hand, but didn't want to force it much, because I didn't want to take the chance of damaging it.
The item is pretty rigid, but I do think I could bend it more if I really got down on it, but the risk isn't worth it.

Id like to add that after doing a yahoo search of the term Fire Insurance Plaque and looking at some pics/images, I did find some pics that look similar to the item in question.
I also found this interesting statement, "Houses without such plaques did not get attended by the private fire brigade of the day". I still think the letter looks more like an "E", but that's just my opinion. Perhaps the Local fire brigade had a name and that brigages name started with the letter "E".
I have to say that this explanation is the best one yet, but im still open to any opinions or suggestions.
I was really hopeing that this was some sort of a military item, but the fire insurance thing/idea is neat too.
One idea I had was that this was nailed to a tree to indicate some sort of military occupation at a particular time and place.
Here are a couple links to similar pics that I found, that are supposed fire insurance plaques.
http://www.arctas.com.au/assets/fire_insurance_plaque_large.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDM3NQ==/z/5csAAOxy63FS-p2V/$_3.JPG?set_id=2

Just gona add one more thing. After looking at the enlarged photo for the tenth time. I think I see the "F.I" now.
That hole in the middle kind of threw me off. Makes sense now, If it was just one letter, it probably wouldn't be so far offset to the left. Thanks again Nhbenz, sorry for doubting ya.

 

[jwarner51]

I as well did a quick Google search and found eagles were a common theme. F.I. was on many as well and another member here though he read F.I. it also seems dates were common to add as well.

 

[jwarner51]

Is it just me or on the flag above your hole does it say 136 or 138? I swear I see that

 

[bonepicker]

I as well did a quick Google search and found eagles were a common theme. F.I. was on many as well and another member here though he read F.I. it also seems dates were common to add as well.

I believe the same about eagles being an early theme on Fire Insurance Plaques. When I searched I found several with Eagles on them as well.

Is it just me or on the flag above your hole does it say 136 or 138? I swear I see that

When you say flag are you referring to the shield, or is it a flag and not a shield.
It kind of looks like a shield to me. but maybe a flag. Its kind of crudely rough across the top on the left side to be a shield.
Im kind of learning towards the shield idea, just because that is the poplular design you see on most flat buttons of that era.
Also looks like a possible banner across the top part of the shield, but I cant see any numbers. Maybe......
Hard for me to say, it took me like ten views before I could even see the possible F.I on it.
I was certain it was an E at first.
I enlarged the photo, but still don't see numbers yet. Please advise.
Thanks
Added: I think im now seeing what you see, but to me it looks like those are just the dark/low spaces to the left and right of the F and I.

 

[jwarner51]

I enlarged the pic and that's the first thing I saw. I'm still looking for the F.I. I am unsure whether its a shield or flag I was just guessing.
Edit: okay so it must've been me seeing things lol. I looked at the pics from a distance and clearly saw the F.I.

 

[Tedyoh]

Because of the dents / pounding marks on the plain side, to me, it looks like your lead piece was place over the eagle and date and it was pounded into the lead - even the hole looks to be started from the back / plain side of the lead.

 

[bonepicker]

Because of the dents / pounding marks on the plain side, to me, it looks like your lead piece was place over the eagle and date and it was pounded into the lead - even the hole looks to be started from the back / plain side of the lead.

Thanks for responding Tedyoh.
Was wondering how it was made. Had 2 ideas. Stamped by heating a stamp and punching it from the front, or like you just mentioned.
I also thought the hole was made from the backside. It reminds me of a gunshot wound. Smooth entrance and rough exit.
Possibly done by heating a hot piece of metal and punching it through.
In the Hi-res photo of the front, it almost looks like whatever made the hole had some amount of heat.