thedukeofdelaware
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Does the HB stand for the Hudson Bay Company? If so, how old? Thanks for your input!
Lead Bale Seal marked "HB"
- Thread starter thedukeofdelaware
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Does the HB stand for the Hudson Bay Company? If so, how old? Thanks for your input!
Older The Better
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Lead Bale Seal marked "HB"
Looks like trade across the bottom and maybe distributed or distribute around the top
Looks like trade across the bottom and maybe distributed or distribute around the top
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Included your seal find for comparison. 
Dave
First pic - "This is of one two HBC fur trade bale seals found at Norway House (Manitoba) that are in the Gabriel Dumont Institute collection. c1820s. In 1816, Lord Selkirk sent out a band of Norwegians, apparently ex-convicts to build a road from York Factory to Lake Winnipeg and a series of supply posts. They built Norway House at Mossy Point on the west side of the Nelson's outflow from Lake Winnipeg in 1817, replacing the former Jack River post at that location. In the last days of the rivalry between the Hudson's Bay Company and the North West Company, prior to their union in 1821, Colin Robertson, of the Hudson's Bay Company from their office in Montreal, organized a brigade of mostly French-Canadians led by John Clarke, bound for the Athabasca country to compete with the North West Company by developing the trade of supplying the colonists in addition to the company's usual business of trading furs. In 1825 or 1826, much of the post was destroyed by fire. In 1826, the company abandoned its position on Mossy Point in favour of its present position on the East River, now known as the Jack River, in order to be nearer to the fishery, the food supply of its population."
Second pic - "Bale seals were crimped to fur bundles that had been sorted and prepared for exhibition to potential buyers. The earliest seals were made from lead, but these twentieth-century seals were made from processed sheet iron that had been protected from corrosion with some kind of lacquered finish. The HBC Collection at the Manitoba Museum has a few late 19th and early 20thc varieties but no examples of earlier lead seals. How did the seals work? Furs were wrapped in 40kg (90lb) burlap bundles, and a rope or cord was tied around the exterior. The burlap was stenciled with important information regarding the point of origin and ownership, and the seals were likely crimped around the cord. Bale seals are one of the most commonly forged Hudson’s Bay Company artifacts on the market, with many crude examples of flat metal pieces with conjoined HBC and beaver iconography mistakenly listed as bale seals."
Dave
First pic - "This is of one two HBC fur trade bale seals found at Norway House (Manitoba) that are in the Gabriel Dumont Institute collection. c1820s. In 1816, Lord Selkirk sent out a band of Norwegians, apparently ex-convicts to build a road from York Factory to Lake Winnipeg and a series of supply posts. They built Norway House at Mossy Point on the west side of the Nelson's outflow from Lake Winnipeg in 1817, replacing the former Jack River post at that location. In the last days of the rivalry between the Hudson's Bay Company and the North West Company, prior to their union in 1821, Colin Robertson, of the Hudson's Bay Company from their office in Montreal, organized a brigade of mostly French-Canadians led by John Clarke, bound for the Athabasca country to compete with the North West Company by developing the trade of supplying the colonists in addition to the company's usual business of trading furs. In 1825 or 1826, much of the post was destroyed by fire. In 1826, the company abandoned its position on Mossy Point in favour of its present position on the East River, now known as the Jack River, in order to be nearer to the fishery, the food supply of its population."
Second pic - "Bale seals were crimped to fur bundles that had been sorted and prepared for exhibition to potential buyers. The earliest seals were made from lead, but these twentieth-century seals were made from processed sheet iron that had been protected from corrosion with some kind of lacquered finish. The HBC Collection at the Manitoba Museum has a few late 19th and early 20thc varieties but no examples of earlier lead seals. How did the seals work? Furs were wrapped in 40kg (90lb) burlap bundles, and a rope or cord was tied around the exterior. The burlap was stenciled with important information regarding the point of origin and ownership, and the seals were likely crimped around the cord. Bale seals are one of the most commonly forged Hudson’s Bay Company artifacts on the market, with many crude examples of flat metal pieces with conjoined HBC and beaver iconography mistakenly listed as bale seals."
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Muddyhandz
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I would assume that the "HB" tag from Norway House would be attached a group of pelts that were shipped within the company's posts.
A lead bale seal would be attached to cargo heading over international boundaries and would have an official company logo.
I've found a few HBC bales seals and they all have had the company coat of arms impressed like this one......
Have a better example put away in site collections but this one still shows the fox and other features you would find exactly on their uniform buttons.
My gut says your seal is not related to the Hudson's Bay Company but it's still a nice bale seal.
A lead bale seal would be attached to cargo heading over international boundaries and would have an official company logo.
I've found a few HBC bales seals and they all have had the company coat of arms impressed like this one......
Have a better example put away in site collections but this one still shows the fox and other features you would find exactly on their uniform buttons.
My gut says your seal is not related to the Hudson's Bay Company but it's still a nice bale seal.
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Muddyhandz
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Oh yeah, I forgot that T-net loves proof!
So here's an illustration right out of an early Beaver magazine (published by the HBC) from my collection.....
This reminds me that I want to do a thread on HBC coat of arms, marks, medals, etc. in the fur trade forum.
Coming soon!
So here's an illustration right out of an early Beaver magazine (published by the HBC) from my collection.....
This reminds me that I want to do a thread on HBC coat of arms, marks, medals, etc. in the fur trade forum.
Coming soon!
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Delmarva
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Found the same seal today detecting in New Castle County. I think it's WAB or VAB with REGISTERED over that. The same die struck my seal as well, REGISTERED is missing the same letters
View attachment 1774288
View attachment 1774288
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This is a very significant find, with a good chance that it may be linked to the history of the fur trade in Delaware.
Welcome to Tnet from Toronto Delmarva,
Dave
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Could it be a railroad seal? ... according to Wikipedia, "The Wabash Railroad (reporting markWAB) was a Class I railroad that operated in the mid-central United States. It served a large area, including track in the states of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, and Missouriand the province of Ontario. Its primary connections included Chicago, Illinois; Kansas City, Missouri; Detroit, Michigan; Buffalo, New York; St. Louis, Missouri; and Toledo, Ohio."
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nhbenz
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W.A. Burpee seed company. The image below is from a 1902 catalog here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/internetarchivebookimages/20570043421/
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