Large Monastic Bronze Seal

[robfinds]

Hi all, After many years of searching I've got to class this as one of my best finds. It's a large bronze monastic seal 16 Century which is late for this type of seal. The seal is flat backed and would have been fitted into an handle probably wooden. I had been searching the field over many years mainly because of it's Roman finds before the seal turned up. Just goes to show the best does sometimes wait until last.

HH -Robert

 

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[CRUSADER]

Which may mean something along the lines of 'seal of the chapel of the blessed Mary of the stairs' (?).

I think it's more like:

"(lesser) blessed Mary of the ladder of heaven" possibly referring to the vision of St. Bernard and referencing the chapel of Scala Celi (heavenly ladder) in Rome.

I found a reference to The Lady chapel of the Austin Church at Norwich being permitted to used the name. A chapel at Westminster Abbey as well.

Yours is one of the most interesting finds I've seen on Tnet. I would say it is a BANNER item.

If you have more info, I'd like to know.

DCMatt

Good research, you should work for the BM, sounds plausible

 

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[BuckleBoy]

FANTASTIC FIND!

This one should be on the BANNER!


-Buckleboy

 

[Shoe]

Cleaned up real well for having been in the ground for a handful of centuries. What cleaning technique did you use? Was it heavy with patina?

 

[DJ_Quinn]

I can only think of a few words to describe that find. Awesome and incredibe! Congrats! What an interesting and historic relic, its a museum piece.

 

[robfinds]

Cleaned up real well for having been in the ground for a handful of centuries. What cleaning technique did you use? Was it heavy with patina?

Had the seal professionally cleaned in a vacuum cleaner using chemicals. It cost £70 but was worth every penny. When found the seal was well crudded up. Looks great now though.

Robert.

 

[robfinds]

Which may mean something along the lines of 'seal of the chapel of the blessed Mary of the stairs' (?).

I think it's more like:

"(lesser) blessed Mary of the ladder of heaven" possibly referring to the vision of St. Bernard and referencing the chapel of Scala Celi (heavenly ladder) in Rome.

I found a reference to The Lady chapel of the Austin Church at Norwich being permitted to used the name. A chapel at Westminster Abbey as well.The first person to look at the seal a collector said he thought it was Italian the BM say it's not ?.

Yours is one of the most interesting finds I've seen on Tnet. I would say it is a BANNER item.

If you have more info, I'd like to know.

DCMatt

 

[robfinds]

Hi Matt, This is the part of the museum report that refers to the seal probably not being Italian.

Robert

 

[DCMatt]

Rob,

No offense to your BM researcher, but I think the SANNITA ANALTARIE MARINE in not a correct reading. This text is gibberish compared to the correct Latin text on the other edge of the seal. I tried to reevaluate the lettering but I can't make much sense out of it. I think my interpretation of the letters has been clouded by the BM researcher's analysis.

Have a fresh, open mind look at it without seeing the BM information. I feel these words may hold the key to identifying your seal.

Devotion to the Scala Celi (sometimes spelled caeli or coeli) was important. I found a number of references to wealthy patrons leaving large sums of money to chapels to be used explicitly for Scala Celi funeral masses - which were thought to help speed the delivery of the soul from Purgatory into Heaven. This practice lead some monks to become executors of wills - a very lucrative business.

Don't give up on this find. It has a bigger story to tell!

DCMatt

 

[CRUSADER]

Rob,

No offense to your BM researcher, but I think the SANNITA ANALTARIE MARINE in not a correct reading. This text is gibberish compared to the correct Latin text on the other edge of the seal. I tried to reevaluate the lettering but I can't make much sense out of it. I think my interpretation of the letters has been clouded by the BM researcher's analysis.

Have a fresh, open mind look at it without seeing the BM information. I feel these words may hold the key to identifying your seal.

Devotion to the Scala Celi (sometimes spelled caeli or coeli) was important. I found a number of references to wealthy patrons leaving large sums of money to chapels to be used explicitly for Scala Celi funeral masses - which were thought to help speed the delivery of the soul from Purgatory into Heaven. This practice lead some monks to become executors of wills - a very lucrative business.

Don't give up on this find. It has a bigger story to tell!

DCMatt

agreed

 

[robfinds]

Thanks but I don't know how to take it any further at the moment. It's frustrating but one day who knows. When I found the seal the patina was terrible (it's since been professionally cleaned) it looked like it may have been in a fire. When this seal was lost in the 16Th century it was a very dangerous place to be for Roman Catholics especially Italian priests. Many Catholics were burnt at the stake !, think this seal as a tale to tell maybe a gruesome one.

HH-Robert.

 

[DCMatt]

Rob,

If you will PM me with specifics on exactly where you found this item, I will try to dig a little deeper.

DCMatt