Large cent and Navy button???

[Merf]

Gates and I hunted a Civil War era field site today and these two finds puzzle me.
Why does the Large cent have cut marks on both sides?
And any ID help on the pewter button is appreciated.
TIA==Merf

 

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[BuckleBoy]

Wish I knew something about that buckle... The Brits did send blockade runners during the U.S. CW. It's how British style snake buckles turn up in Rebel sites. Might be a possibility--but awfully far-fetched. Just looking at the style of the buckle, I'd say firmly mid-1800s. I can't find anything on this buckle, but I do remember, Merf, that you have dug a wreath before (seen it in one of your previous posts, I think...). Is it the from the same site as this buckle tongue?


-BB

 

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[Woodland Detectors]

Kuger,

It's very possible that it is a German officers Kriegsmarine Navy Tongue and wreath buckle.
They are collectible for sure. They aren't exact though that's what's throwing me off.
Click here about half way down. http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/german_belts.html
I was researching for Merf yesterday on his with no luck. http://www.snyderstreasures.com/pages/buckles.htm


I emailed a picture of yours Merf to my friend Brian at Charlestonrelics.com.

He has no clue as to what it is and it's hard to stump him.
He's working on it though

 

[kuger]

4-H,I think what you are missing is that #1 the German buckle is a one piece,all of them I have seen are.(the complete one I pictured is two piece)The two piece was rarely used after the C.W. aside from the Japanese in WW2,in rare cases.
I will say again,mine and the other three I know of all came from 1850 sites

Buckles,good point,Merf did find a wreath I think,it would be interesting to know if they fit?

 

[Merf]

Wish I knew something about that buckle... The Brits did send blockade runners during the U.S. CW. It's how British style snake buckles turn up in Rebel sites. Might be a possibility--but awfully far-fetched. Just looking at the style of the buckle, I'd say firmly mid-1800s. I can't find anything on this buckle, but I do remember, Merf, that you have dug a wreath before (seen it in one of your previous posts, I think...). Is it the from the same site as this buckle tongue?


-BB

Thanks Buckles
It was from a different site Buckles and no match.

 

[Merf]

Thanks for the research Guys

I am still looking at websites with no exact matches.

 

[vayank54]

I checked, hoping that I still might have a pic of the button with the Treble Gilt mark but I've deleted it at some time. Sorry guys.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Man,thats a dead ringer for mine,what do ya know about that button??

Does this link help any? http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/navy buttons.htm

 

[kuger]

Man,thats a dead ringer for mine,what do ya know about that button??

Does this link help any? http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/navy buttons.htm

Thanks Cy,I have used that site before,and never really concentrated on the anchor styles....now I am really confused!It looks like a 1900's Merchant,and any number of those that date to the 1700's!!

 

[Iron Patch]

Here's maybe a dumb thought, and maybe so dumb it's the reason it hasn't been thought off, or at least mentioned yet.

Maybe it's just a civilian buckle using the anchor device? The question I have for you guys with a lot of experience with this style of buckle is..... are these solid heavy brass type two piece buckles always military, or are some dug that were purely just to be used as a buckle? If I was a non military person in 1855 and walked into the store needing a buckle what type of selection would I have?

 

[tinpan]

hi nice buckle, during the time of the 1850,s world gold rushes the 2 largest merchant navies were the british and the US in the Pacific Ocean. Sailors often jumped ship to try their luck at gold mining.Some ports reported having as many hundreds of ships docked and stranded because the crew jumped.

tinpan

 

[EDDE]

place holder

 

[kuger]

I.P. the answer to your question is a BIG YES,most of the buckles we find are not military although the books state one common cast buckle as a Militia officers.....we must have had a ton of M.O's!!!!

Tinpan is dead on correct as well.It just seems odd that a deserter would keep any incriminating evidence especially something as glaring as a buckle.I have read accounts of posse',getting paid more than they could make digging searching deserters,to be executed.The N.Y.L,which I had originally thought had been one of the few groups if the not the only group to not suffer ant deserters did in fact suffer a great deal,to the point only a few remained of complete companies

 

[Merf]

Man,thats a dead ringer for mine,what do ya know about that button??

Does this link help any? http://www.colchestertreasurehunting.co.uk/navy buttons.htm

That link is Primo BCH---several close matches---Thanks

 

[lordmarcovan]

Why does the Large cent have cut marks on both sides?

Because people used to do unkind things to their coins, often for no other reason than boredom, I suppose. Holes, carvings, cuts, etc.- you'll see it all on earlier coinage. Nowadays nobody pays much attention to the coins in their pocket, and few people fiddle around with them, but that wasn't always the case.

As I coin dealer, I often lament damage like this, but as a digger, I don't mind it, because it gives the coin character, and it adds to the whole "gee, what if this thing could talk" mystique.

I was gonna mention that the "foul anchor" design is more commonly found on British Navy buttons than US ones, but it looks like maybe somebody already clued you in the right direction there. There have also been thousands if not millions of civilian buttons with the foul anchor design made over the centuries, for blazers and coats and things like that.

 

[lordmarcovan]

Is the button for sure pewter. Cause it looks like it was a lid and that the spot on the rim on the back may have been hinged. And for the large cent, these things pop up sort of often. Carved, engraved, & counter stamped coins are cool. Who know who or why they carved into your coin, but I think it gives it personality. Cool finds by the way!

He's got a point- that does sorta look like a hinged lid to me. And see? We agree on how the coin's scratches give it personality.

Edit: Oh- now I've read some more of the other posts- a broken off tongue from a two-piece buckle, huh? Yes. That makes a lot more sense. Makes it a very, very cool find, too, I'd say.

Oh, and another PS- I like how you use the old maps as a backdrop in the photographs. Nice.

 

[kuger]

Is the button for sure pewter. Cause it looks like it was a lid and that the spot on the rim on the back may have been hinged. And for the large cent, these things pop up sort of often. Carved, engraved, & counter stamped coins are cool. Who know who or why they carved into your coin, but I think it gives it personality. Cool finds by the way!

He's got a point- that does sorta look like a hinged lid to me. And see? We agree on how the coin's scratches give it personality.

Oh, and another PS- I like how you use the old maps as a backdrop in the photographs. Nice.

If you read the post....its not a button or a lid

 

[tinpan]

I.P. the answer to your question is a BIG YES,most of the buckles we find are not military although the books state one common cast buckle as a Militia officers.....we must have had a ton of M.O's!!!!

Tinpan is dead on correct as well.It just seems odd that a deserter would keep any incriminating evidence especially something as glaring as a buckle.I have read accounts of posse',getting paid more than they could make digging searching deserters,to be executed.The N.Y.L,which I had originally thought had been one of the few groups if the not the only group to not suffer ant deserters did in fact suffer a great deal,to the point only a few remained of complete companies

By the 1850,s more than half of the american whaling fleet followed the whales across the Pacific Ocean the southern waters of Australia . from what i remember about 600 ships. Thats a lot of sailers

tinpan Tinker , tailor, soldier,sailor to gold miners.

 

[kuger]

I.P. the answer to your question is a BIG YES,most of the buckles we find are not military although the books state one common cast buckle as a Militia officers.....we must have had a ton of M.O's!!!!

Tinpan is dead on correct as well.It just seems odd that a deserter would keep any incriminating evidence especially something as glaring as a buckle.I have read accounts of posse',getting paid more than they could make digging searching deserters,to be executed.The N.Y.L,which I had originally thought had been one of the few groups if the not the only group to not suffer ant deserters did in fact suffer a great deal,to the point only a few remained of complete companies

By the 1850,s more than half of the american whaling fleet followed the whales across the Pacific Ocean the southern waters of Australia . from what i remember about 600 ships. Thats a lot of sailers

tinpan Tinker , tailor, soldier,sailor to gold miners.

Must have been the late 1850's?
I have seen period dagureotypes of miners wearing the anchor buckle and the Anchor is always "upsidedown".

 

[tinpan]

I.P. the answer to your question is a BIG YES,most of the buckles we find are not military although the books state one common cast buckle as a Militia officers.....we must have had a ton of M.O's!!!!

Tinpan is dead on correct as well.It just seems odd that a deserter would keep any incriminating evidence especially something as glaring as a buckle.I have read accounts of posse',getting paid more than they could make digging searching deserters,to be executed.The N.Y.L,which I had originally thought had been one of the few groups if the not the only group to not suffer ant deserters did in fact suffer a great deal,to the point only a few remained of complete companies

By the 1850,s more than half of the american whaling fleet followed the whales across the Pacific Ocean the southern waters of Australia . from what i remember about 600 ships. Thats a lot of sailers

tinpan Tinker , tailor, soldier,sailor to gold miners.

Must have been the late 1850's?
I have seen period dagureotypes of miners wearing the anchor buckle and the Anchor is always "upsidedown".

"women rum and gold" sounds much better than a rat infested ship hull eating weavels in the corn bread and mouldy barrel ham for poor pay.


tinpan

 

[kuger]

here is another Navy,type buckle we find,one can let the imagination run on this one too!!!