Knights of the Golden Circle "RISING SUN" symbol

[Crosse De Sign]

Hi, L.C. Baker, Rebel-KGC, Not Peralta, and all;
Just a research question of curiosity more than
anything else, thought y'all might have an idea
about... Does anyone know if there may have been
any Freemason, KGC/OAK members or operatives,
in S/W Missouri, around Branson and the surrounding
areas; before, during, or after the Civil War?

The only info I have found, doesn't mention anything
about any Freemason, KGC/OAK members or activity,
in the S/W areas of Southern Taney or Stone counties,
in the great state of Missouri. Only some info regarding
a group of supposed vigilantes that were called
"The Baldnobbers", because they were originally
from a local bald knob hill. They supposedly fought
against southern sympathizers and marauding groups,
possibly such as the James-Younger gang.

Thanks in advance, for any light that you may
be able to shed on this subject, Crosse

 

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[L.C. BAKER]

Hi, L.C. Baker, Rebel-KGC, Not Peralta, and all;
Just a research question of curiosity more than
anything else, thought y'all might have an idea
about... Does anyone know if there may have been
any Freemason, KGC/OAK members or operatives,
in S/W Missouri, around Branson and the surrounding
areas; before, during, or after the Civil War?

The only info I have found, doesn't mention anything
about any Freemason, KGC/OAK members or activity,
in the S/W areas in Taney or Stone counties, of the
great state of Missouri. Only some info regarding a
group of supposed vigilantes that were called
"The Baldnobbers", because they were originally
from a local bald knob hill. They supposedly fought
against southern sympathizers and marauding groups,
possibly such as the James-Younger gang.

Thanks in advance, for any light that you may
be able to shed on this subject, Crosse

LOL! I saw these guys at Branson in the early 80's I have a signed photo of them still, but I believe it was some different members back then.



On a serious note... We have discovered no evidence of members that far South in Missouri being directly tied to our guys, but Taney County sounds like a good place for something to be! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_B._Taney Was affiliated with Presidents Andrew Jackson and Franklin Pierce and possibly even met with Stephen Nuckolls during the Dred Scott v. Sandford case in St. Luis as Nuckolls did travel there to attend the court. I am sure Taney was affiliated with the K.G.C., just don't have anything for proof except for guilt by association and his own judicial actions. Which speak for themselves.

L.C.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Howdy L.C.,

That is interesting reading about Taney.

I have never seen "The Baldnobbers" music/comedy show,
though have heard that it was comically humorous, and
musically well done. They were supposedly one of the first
local groups to put on a show there at branson on Hwy. 76.

The original people seem to have been of colorful character,
and somewhat secretive history. Like many hillfolks of the
period, they made their own liquor, and apparently took
care of local situations and business in their own way...
Thanks, Crosse

 

[Crosse De Sign]

L.C.,

I suspect there's something to the possible associations
that you researched and touched on, as there are some of the
oldest trees (oaks) left standing intact, all seeming to have a relatively similar lean...

Maybe a couple of interesting rocks also, so together, it's as though there may have been
someone there in those hills and hollers at one time, with a specially marked trail...

A couple of young locals (around 20 yrs. old) said they were actually taught in school
that there were Freemasons in the area, back in the approx. 1860's time frame.
Thought it was interesting... Thanks,

 

[senior deacon]

Crosse De Sign Masonry in Missouri was wide spread. No doubt that there were Freemasons in the hill and hollows of Southern Missouri. Most of the people were of Scots/Irish heritage and they came in to the area thur Philadelphia, Pa. Philadelphia was a hot bed of masonic activity at that time. Most wanting to start a new life and seeing that it was more obtainable to become a Freemason in the new world than in the old country. They most likely joined so that they could tell the folk in the old country A"We made it I joined the Freemasons". All the work and travel had been worth it. Not only would they had been looked at as a landowner but now with a Masonic membership one of the person of High Society.

The first lodges of Iowa was chartered from the Grand Lodge of Missouri and if my poor memory serves me right the Grand lodge of Missouri Granted the Charter to the Grand lodge of Iowa. This was some where around 1843 or 1844. As Rebel has stated that there were Red lodges working in the St. Louis Almost when it was a small Trading Post. You only have to look at many of the western/southern characters that past thur there on there travels. Many were Freemasons and would have perhaps attended Lodge before there journey began. Freemasonry moved up the Mississippi River from New Orleans, Louisiana all the way to St. Cloud Minnesota. Both York and Scottish Rite took root along the way. The following link will tell you how long that Masonry has been in Missouri and also at lease one of the Famous Masons that frequented the Missouri Freemanson's Lodge. Grand Lodge of Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S.D.

 

[senior deacon]

At this point after rereading the entire thread I must correct a few mistakes that were made by certain people within the people that posted comments here. " I ain't fuss'n at cha now. " This is a common southern phrase that has deep root in the south for all you Yankees that may be reading this. I know that the true boys of the south will know exactly what i mean. The Knight Templar was started BEFORE the Civil WAR. A Short History of Masonic Templarism | Masonic Dictionary | www.masonicdictionary.com The higher Degrees of masonry have always been a bone of contention with me. I believe that the third degree is only as high as you will ever get. The York Rite and Scottish Rite are the Universities of the Masonic Fraternity. You Pay to get in and Pay to stay in. They expand on the lessons taught in the first three degrees of the Blue Lodge. Some feel as if you obtain the degree of Knights Templar or 32 degree Scottish Rite YOU have risen above all the other brothers. Sad truth The rules that were laid down in the first three degree are the same rules that are laid down in every other degree of Masonry. If you are following the first three degree rules then you don't have to worry about the rules of the highest degree you belong to. To belong to the higher (?) degrees of masonry you must have membership in the first three. The Scottish Rite because it has a 33 degree is believed to be the highest degree that you can obtain. This degree has two parts a active and a honorary. You can have a 33 degree honorary and never get a 33 degree active. Active members are only those that give BIGG Bucks to the Scottish Rite or serve as representatives to the Supreme Council. Even then a honorary member may have to serve two or three terms to get to be a active 33 degree mason.

At the time of Pike and the Scottish Rite you could buy your way in. It was not uncommon for this to be done. Today it is more difficult to do. Work, Money, and Fame will get you a higher degree in masonic circles. I have given a lot to the Scottish Rite as far as Work and Time. I nave not nor do I want the 33 degree. I have served as the Grand Treasurer of a Grand Commandery and I want no higher honors. I am a Master Mason and for me that is good enough. I know every thing that needs to be known to lead a good moral and up right life. Evidently the K.G.C need and want more to be sure of the loyalty of their members this shows how far they needed to go to insure loyalty to the cause. Not to the K.G.C. but to the Masonic Rite itself. Nuff said. Hoped that you followed my logic.

S.D.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

J.S. Morton was a Freemason, but you will not find his name on any roster. He was groomed for the K.G.C. by Lewis Cass at Michigan University and he was harvested by Cass to carry out direct orders in the Nebraska Territory for the benefit and expansion of slavery and the organizations. The planned K.G.C. defense and possible take over of the territory was well under way before J.S. Morton arrived in Nebraska in 1854. It had started as early as 1849 or earlier if you want to throw the exploration of Lewis and Clark into the mix.(WHO WERE THEY REPORTING TO?)
Lewis Cass was previously the Secretary of War for Andrew Jackson and the two of them are highly credited with the trail of tears and the fact that they were both high ranking Freemasons. The Anti-Masonic party or the "Anti-Jackson" faction as it was called in the beginning was created to do battle with the Freemasons and keep them from taking over the u.S. Government. It is because of the Anti-mason party that this country now has nominating conventions and the adoption of party platforms.
I believe that this is why J.S. Morton was schooled by Cass in Michigan to keep his Masonic status secret from the public. Cass and the B.L.F. didn't need to draw that kind of attention to their Knight as soon as he hit Nebraska. This is also why J.S. Morton only represented his masonic status in symbolism and funny things like signing his name on page 32 of every book he ever read. He was a SAGE by the time of his death in 1902.


I have heard many a brother say he couldn't afford the rest of the degrees.

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

"The Knight Templar was started BEFORE the Civil WAR. " Senior Deacon I believe that is true. This is one of our identified Copperheads, monument symbolism. Is it a Southern Cross or is it a Symbol of the Knights Templar......or both? He was also a cryptic mason.
View attachment 1022984

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Sometimes the symbol of an hourglass within an Ouroboros appears on a gravestone, with or without wings. The immortality and eternal life is thus pictured with both the river of time and the sands of time - and the Nachash life of Horus, resurrected out of Osiris.

A masonic symbol of the hour glass is normally depicted like this:

 

[L.C. BAKER]

This is a good visual representation of the Freemasons and the K.G.C. morphed together as one brotherhood inside of another, and if those are O.A.K. logs you would have all three organizations represented.

L.C. Baker

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I have been studying the rising sun symbol for a while now, and I found all of these explanations have at least something in common.

SUN AS THE DOOR: A symbol of the Higher Self as the means by which the lower consciousness shall rise to union with the higher.
"When he departs from this body he mounts upwards by those very rays (the rays of the sun which enter the arteries of the body), or he is removed while saying Om. And quickly as he sends off his mind (as quick as thought), he goes to the sun. For the sun is the door of the world, an entrance for the knowing, a bar to the ignorant."
— Khandogya Upanishad, VIII.6.5.

SUN-RISING, OR DAWN: A symbol of the commencement of a new cycle of life. The Higher Self (sun) beginning to appear in manifestation on the higher planes.
"That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." — Matthew, V.45

SUN
In theogony, the Sun represents the moment (surpassing al others in the succession of celestial dynasties) when the heroic principle shines at its brightest. Thus, after Uranus, Saturn and Jupiter, comes Helios Apollo. On occasion, the Sun appears as the direct son and heir of the god of heaven

The Sun is the ancient symbol of the life-giving and generative power of the Deity. To the ancients, light was the cause of life; and God was the source from which all light flowed; the essence of Light, the Invisible Fire, developed as Flame manifested as light and splendor. The Sun was his manifestation and visible image; and the Sabæans worshipping the Light — God, seemed to worship the Sun, in whom they saw the manifestation of the Deity.
The Moon was the symbol of the passive capacity of nature to produce, the female, of which the life-giving power and energy was the male. It was the symbol of Isis, Astarte, and Artemis, or Diana. The "Master of Life" was the Supreme Deity, above both, and manifested through both; Zeus, the Son of Saturn, become King of the Gods; Horus, son of Osiris and Isis, become the Master of Life; Dionusos or Bacchus, like Mithras, become the author of Light and Life and Truth. -- Albert Pike


Amen as the Sun God

As Amun's cult grew bigger, Amun rapidly became identified with the chief God that was worshipped in other areas, Ra-Herakhty, the merged identities of Ra, and Horus. This identification led to a merger of identities, with Amun becoming Amun-Ra. As Ra had been the father of Shu, and Tefnut, and the remainder of the Ennead, so Amun-Ra was likewise identified as their father.

Ra-Herakhty had been a sun god, and so this became true of Amun-Ra as well, Amun becoming considered the hidden aspect of the sun (e.g. during the night), in contrast to Ra-Herakhty as the visible aspect, since Amun clearly meant the one who is hidden. This complexity over the sun led to a gradual movement towards the support of a more pure form of deity.

 

[senior deacon]

L.C. must disagree with you use of the All Seeing Eye for Amun-Ra the this is what the Ancient Egyptians depicted him as. File:Amun-Ra.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You are spot on when it comes to the rising sun.

S.D.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Well, in my defense.....LOL!

The Egyptians often referred to the sun and the moon as the "eye"s of particular gods. The right eye of the god Horus, for instance, was equated with the sun, and his left eye equated with the moon.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eye_of_Ra

Different forms of Horus are recorded in history and these are treated as distinct gods by Egypt specialists. These various forms may possibly be different perceptions of the same multi-layered deity in which certain attributes and relationships are emphasized, not necessarily in opposition but complementary to one another, consistent with how the Ancient Egyptians viewed the multiple facets of reality

I may be wrong in my assumption.

L.C.

 

[senior deacon]

No offence offered my Brother!!! No need to defend. Just a simple opinion on a point. But in your defense you bring up a even better point that I think that many including myself may have missed. This I should have picked up on almost form the start as it is something once again that I had to study in the now dusty halls of academia. We are dealing with the mind of the 1850's or so. These were the Knights of the Golden Circle. Think that we need to look at something like this. Dexter and sinister - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Your last post jarred that little nugget loose in the back of my mind.

Now L.C. think for a minute of the As above so Below. Now think as Dexter so in Sinister. Knighthood Heraldry as on the right so on the left. Opposites to throw everyone off the track. Tricky bunch; right means left and left means right. Up means down and down means up. West means east and East means west. Ect,Ect.Ect. I remember that We had some sort of a conversation on this a while back it didn't get to this stage but now with your last post it has come full circle. Think of opposites for a minute. The beginning is the end and the End is the beginnig. BTW Thank you for the Cemetery thing. More to come.

S.D.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Thanks for the link S.D. that is some very interesting knowledge.

L.C.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sometimes the symbol of an hourglass within an Ouroboros appears on a gravestone, with or without wings. The immortality and eternal life is thus pictured with both the river of time and the sands of time - and the Nachash life of Horus, resurrected out of Osiris.

A masonic symbol of the hour glass is normally depicted like this:
View attachment 1023044

"Time" DOES "fly by", doesn't it!

 

[senior deacon]

Tempus Fugit, Tempus Fugit . Tempus fugit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Time flies this is a motto that is posted of the face of most standing floor clocks. So Rebel you are Correct. Pour yourself a another cup of coffee.

S.D.

 

[Crosse De Sign]

Crosse De Sign Masonry in Missouri was wide spread. No doubt that there were Freemasons in the hill and hollows of Southern Missouri. Most of the people were of Scots/Irish heritage and they came in to the area thur Philadelphia, Pa. Philadelphia was a hot bed of masonic activity at that time. Most wanting to start a new life and seeing that it was more obtainable to become a Freemason in the new world than in the old country. They most likely joined so that they could tell the folk in the old country A"We made it I joined the Freemasons". All the work and travel had been worth it. Not only would they had been looked at as a landowner but now with a Masonic membership one of the person of High Society.

The first lodges of Iowa was chartered from the Grand Lodge of Missouri and if my poor memory serves me right the Grand lodge of Missouri Granted the Charter to the Grand lodge of Iowa. This was some where around 1843 or 1844. As Rebel has stated that there were Red lodges working in the St. Louis Almost when it was a small Trading Post. You only have to look at many of the western/southern characters that past thur there on there travels. Many were Freemasons and would have perhaps attended Lodge before there journey began. Freemasonry moved up the Mississippi River from New Orleans, Louisiana all the way to St. Cloud Minnesota. Both York and Scottish Rite took root along the way. The following link will tell you how long that Masonry has been in Missouri and also at lease one of the Famous Masons that frequented the Missouri Freemanson's Lodge. Grand Lodge of Missouri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

S.D.

Howdy senior deacon;

Interesting reply. Was Meriwether Lewis murdered, and supposedly
setup to look like self inflicted? If so, what might have been in his report
to Pres. Thomas Jefferson that never made it, to cause someone to do him in?

WHO, and WHY? If that's what happened, seems like a bad deal.
Thanks for the interesting history and info., Crosse

 

[senior deacon]

Crosse De Sign Yes that is my understanding of what happened also. More than likely another treasure tale for another time. Lewis and Clark had no doubt obtained knowledge that would have equaled wealth. Don't think that it has any thing to do with the K.G.C. In the several accounts that I have read and on the few exposay that I have read it was alluded to that it could have been a love triangle of some sort also. Jealousy,Rage, Political intrigue are but a few of the other theories that have been thrown about for his death. The best one was for me was robbery of the report it self.

Both Lewis and Clark were Freemasons I think that the bigger question in the whole matter was why did Thomas Jefferson pick them to lead a expedition to the Louisiana Purchase. Could this be the smoking gun needed to prove that Jefferson was really a Freemason and wanted men that he could absolutely trust. Like a fellow brother Masons. It has no bearing on the K.G.C. at all but a subject unto itself. I have on several occasions visited the Floyd Monument at Sioux City , Iowa. This monument can be seen a great distant out and from most parts of the City. A tribute to one of the fallen men of the expedition. Here are a couple of links about it and it is impressive. Sergeant Floyd Monument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sgt Charles Floyd (1782 - 1804) - Find A Grave Memorial

S.D.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Crosse De Sign Yes that is my understanding of what happened also. More than likely another treasure tale for another time. Lewis and Clark had no doubt obtained knowledge that would have equaled wealth. Don't think that it has any thing to do with the K.G.C. In the several accounts that I have read and on the few exposay that I have read it was alluded to that it could have been a love triangle of some sort also. Jealousy,Rage, Political intrigue are but a few of the other theories that have been thrown about for his death. The best one was for me was robbery of the report it self.

Both Lewis and Clark were Freemasons I think that the bigger question in the whole matter was why did Thomas Jefferson pick them to lead a expedition to the Louisiana Purchase. Could this be the smoking gun needed to prove that Jefferson was really a Freemason and wanted men that he could absolutely trust. Like a fellow brother Masons. It has no bearing on the K.G.C. at all but a subject unto itself. I have on several occasions visited the Floyd Monument at Sioux City , Iowa. This monument can be seen a great distant out and from most parts of the City. A tribute to one of the fallen men of the expedition. Here are a couple of links about it and it is impressive. Sergeant Floyd Monument - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sgt Charles Floyd (1782 - 1804) - Find A Grave Memorial

S.D.

NO proof that Thomas Jefferson was EVER a Freemason; HOWEVER! He WAS greatly "influenced' by the FRENCH ROSICRUCIANS, when he served in France. It is seen in his designs of buildings, his desire for the ACADEMICAL VILLAGE
(aka UVA)... AND! His POPLAR FOREST Retreat (@ 5-6 miles WEST from me in Lynchburg, Va.). ENLIGHTENMENT "movement" then was NOT Illuminati "takeover", tho. Will do R & I on Lewis & Clark as "Freemasons"...