King Solomons Mines

[Oroblanco]

King Solomon's Mines

Greetings,
I am a little surprised that no one seems to have discussed this most ancient of lost treasures, the famous King Solomon's mines! Anyone have any information or theories on the locations? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

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[gord]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Didn't the (original) movie take them under Mount Kilimanjaro?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

HI, where is my silly reply about Stewat Granger ??

Tropical 'tramp

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

There is a really interesting article (I think they might have some books for sale as well) regarding the mines on the net. The people show some great photos and finds out in the field. I don't have the address handy - just type in Swift, silver, Solomon's Mines and the website link will appear on Google.

I really thought it interesting b/c they have found a lot of evidence that supports Solomon's Mines being some of the same mines that Swift worked!

I have read (forget where now) other works about Solomon's Mines being in the Appalachian Mountains as well.

Last week, I was fortunate enough to acquire a copy of Paul Henson's "Lost Silver Mines and Buried Treasures of KY". In it, he states places in KY where Ancient Jewish Coins (B.C. vintage) were found in KY - interesting to say the least!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Hello friends,
Thanks for the replies - I was not really referring to the old book or the several Hollywood movies (including one that had intelligent gorillas protecting the mine etc ) but to the original tale from the Old Testament.

I have enough material to do up a book on the subject, and if I were going to hunt for Solomon's mines I know where I would look. I guess that I should have posted the opening message for the thread with some of the info.

The first we hear of King Solomon's mines is in 1 Kings 9

26And a navy hath king Solomon made in Ezion-Geber, that is beside Eloth, on the edge of the Sea of Suph, in the land of Edom.
27And Hiram sendeth in the navy his servants, shipmen knowing the sea, with servants of Solomon,
28and they come in to Ophir and take thence gold, four hundred and twenty talents, and bring [it] in unto king Solomon.

(using Young's Literal Translation - to avoid argument of meanings)

The Sea of Suph refers to the Red Sea (the Greeks called it the Erythraean Sea, means same thing and included the Indian Ocean not just what we call the Red Sea today - this passage also calls into question the revisionists who claim that Moses only parted the Sea of Reeds, where it also says "Sea of Suph" because Ezion-Geber and Eloth are on an arm of the Red Sea, not the swampy area in Egypt) Four hundred twenty talents of gold amounts to 31,500 pounds (avoirdupois, not troy) or nearly sixteen TONS of gold!

We get more details in the other passages that refer to the ships of King Solomon and his friend King Hiram of Tyre (the chief Phoenician city of the day): 1 Kings 10

11 And also, the navy of Hiram that bore gold from Ophir, brought in from Ophir almug-trees very many, and precious stone;
12 and the king maketh the almug-trees a support for the house of Jehovah, and for the house of the king, and harps and psalteries for singers; there have not come such almug-trees, nor have there been seen [such] unto this day.

(Now most scholars say the Almug trees are sandalwood, however the Jewish historian Josephus stated that it was a type of white pine, superior to any known in the Roman world) We note that there is a great amount of gold, Almug trees and precious stones; to continue:

13 And king Solomon gave to the queen of Sheba all her desire that she asked, apart from that which he gave to her as a memorial of king Solomon, and she turneth and goeth to her land, she and her servants.
14 And the weight of the gold that hath come to Solomon in one year is six hundred sixty and six talents of gold,
15 apart from [that of] the tourists, and of the traffic of the merchants, and of all the kings of Arabia, and of the governors of the land.
16 And king Solomon maketh two hundred targets of alloyed gold -- six hundred of gold go up on the one target;
17 and three hundred shields of alloyed gold -- three pounds of gold go up on the one shield; and the king putteth them [in] the house of the forest of Lebanon.
18 And the king maketh a great throne of ivory, and overlayeth it with refined gold;
19 six steps hath the throne, and a round top [is] to the throne behind it, and hands [are] on this [side] and on that, unto the place of the sitting, and two lions are standing near the hands,
20 and twelve lions are standing there on the six steps, on this [side] and on that; it hath not been made so for any kingdom.
21 And all the drinking vessels of king Solomon [are] of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon [are] of refined gold -- there are none of silver; it was not reckoned in the days of Solomon for anything,
22 for a navy of Tarshish hath the king at sea with a navy of Hiram; once in three years cometh the navy of Tarshish, bearing gold, and silver, ivory, and apes, and peacocks.
23 And king Solomon is greater than any of the kings of the earth for riches and for wisdom,
24 and all the earth is seeking the presence of Solomon, to hear his wisdom that God hath put into his heart,
25 and they are bringing each his present, vessels of silver, and vessels of gold, and garments, and armour, and spices, horses, and mules, the matter of a year in a year.
26 And Solomon gathereth chariots, and horsemen, and he hath a thousand and four hundred chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen, and he placeth them in the cities of the chariot, and with the king in Jerusalem.
27 And the king maketh the silver in Jerusalem as stones, and the cedars he hath made as the sycamores that [are] in the low country, for abundance.
{So we see that the amount of gold coming into the kingdom of Solomon was huge, and so much silver that it was as plentiful as stones in the streets!
We also know that the ships were not just sailing to Ophir but also to Tarshish:}

“And all the drinking vessels of king Solomon [are] of gold, and all the vessels of the house of the forest of Lebanon [are] of refined gold -- silver is not reckoned in the days of Solomon for anything; for ships of the king are going to Tarshish, with servants of Huram: once in three years come do the ships of Tarshish bearing gold, and silver, ivory, apes, and peacocks. And king Solomon becometh greater than any of the kings of the earth for riches and wisdom; and all the kings of the earth are seeking the presence of Solomon to hear his wisdom that God hath put in his heart, and they are bringing in each his present, vessels of silver, and vessels of gold, and garments, harness, and spices, horses, and mules, a rate year by year.” (2 Chronicles 9:20-24, YLT)

The "navy" of Tarshish that Solomon built in Ezion-geber is not what WE would consider a "navy" today; for in other ancient sources (the Phoenician historian Philo) we learn that Hiram used 800 camels to haul the lumber to Ezion-geber, and built TEN ships. That may not sound like much, but remember that a cargo of gold and silver does not require many ships; and the great voyage of Queen Hatshepsut (of Egypt) to the "mythical" land of Punt, involved only FIVE ships, and these were much smaller than a "ship of Tarshish" which is described in Isaiah and Ezekiel as an ocean-going vessel with masts that towered over the sea.
So where were the ships of Solomon and Hiram going? We are told they were sailing to Ophir and Tarshish; of course scholars have proposed all sorts of locations for both of these places. Josephus states that it was simply Tarsus in Asia Minor, however Tarsus was not founded until a century AFTER Solomon and Josephus was writing his history during the Roman conquest of his homelands so had a good reason NOT to tell the truth. Josephus also states that Ophir was simply Sophir (India) yet we know for a fact that India was NOT an exporter of gold in the time of Solomon, in fact India was such an absorber of gold that it nearly caused the Roman empire to go bankrupt paying for the goods of India. We can also safely rule out all other proposed locations like Arabia, Ethiopia, Somalia, etc as these places were easily reached by overland caravans, in far shorter time than three YEARS. No the location has to be a place very far away!

I had at first come to the conclusion that Solomon was not mining anything at all, just sending out trade missions. There is, after all, a site known today as the site of Ezion-geber, and this place had huge copper smelteries. So I thought, Solomon was simply mining copper in the Arabah (this is fact) smelting it in the vast forges he built on the island at Ezion-geber, (Jezirat Faraun) then trading it for gold, silver, precious stones, peacocks etc. Anyway back to where the heck are these places...

Tarshish has also been identified as Tarsis in Sardinia, where Phoenicians had smelteries set up - however there are no gold mines in that locality and the operations on Sardinia were fairly small scale, not enough to be producing five tons plus per year (the shipments Solomon received were the result of three years work each time). The Greeks wrote of an ancient Phoenician city in sw Spain near Gades (modern Cadiz) that they called Tartessus; this Tartessus was so rich in silver that the first Greek ships to visit and trade there even made up cast silver anchors so as to be able to carry more home! This Tartessus fits extremely well with Tarshish of the OT; and in fact we learn in the book of Jonah that it was possible to sail WEST to Tarshish (from Joppa) and to sail EAST to Tarshish from the Red Sea! A somewhat famous Atlantis-hunter has recently found the site of Tartessus (which he instantly proclaimed to be Atlantis) near the city of Cadiz.
The ancient Spaniards were convinced that Ophir was in fact Peru! Etymologically, the name Ophir means "land of fire" and the name Peru also means "land of fire" and the "ph" in ancient Hebrew can be pronounced as an "F" or as a hard "P". Some years ago, a famous explorer named Gene Savoy discovered ruins of an ancient city in Amazonia, Peru, which had glyphs which were identical to those which were written for the name Ophir.

We should note that clue we found in 1 Kings, that the ships took three years. The first Europeans to circumnavigate the world took almost exactly three years to do so (Magellan and Drake) and included some time for stopping, which doubtless Solomon's ships would have to do. There is a clue that this is what they were doing - for it does not make sense to sail from a Red Sea port heading for Tarshish in SW Spain, when you could simply sail west from Joppa and reach it in far less time. Also, the only potsherd ever found that had a record of Ophir on it was discovered in the site of an ancient Hebrew port (inside what it modern Tel Aviv) so this implies that the ships were departing from Ezion-geber, and sailing easterly, calling at various ports where they traded and obtained apes, ivory, spices, etc on their way to Peru where the mines output would be picked up, then continue on using the prevailing currents and trade winds (ancient ships were not too good at sailing into the wind, they could but not as well as modern sailing vessels) to return to Joppa.

We have to wonder how Solomon learned of the gold mines and other riches to be had? I found another ancient source that states King David (Solomon's father) built ships (no numbers given) in Eloth, which sailed to "an island" in the Red Sea (side note here, but there are no important gold deposits on any islands in the Red Sea) after he had conquered Edom which is where Eloth and Ezion-geber were. He almost certainly learned of the mines through his Phoenician allies, who had no port on the Red Sea so had to make very long and roundabout voyages prior to the conquest of Edom.

A discovery made by the US Geological Survey in Saudi Arabia has been proposed as the site of King Solomon's mines, known as the Mahd adh Dhahab, an ancient mine in central Saudi Arabia between Mecca and Medina. (Mahd adh Dhahab means "cradle of gold") This mine complex left millions of tons of tailings, and the tailings tested out at 0.6 ounces gold per ton! (I have not followed up on this but they were considering mining the tailings as it is pretty rich) These mines are old enough, in fact they are far older and were not a part of Solomon's empire - there are overland caravan routes which pass quite close by; the distance is some 700 miles from Jerusalem, and over 150 miles to the sea so it would have been ridiculous for ships to try to travel there. (First reported in Biblical Archaeology Review, Sept 1977 issue) This ancient mining complex may have been run by Solomon, as well as Egyptian pharaohs, Greek pharaohs, Arabian nomads etc but it is not likely this was Ophir.

Peru is well known today for the many rich gold mines there, and some intriguing finds have been made in ancient mines there too like a bronze crowbar; as no Amerindians made bronze, this item is solid proof that ancient visitors from the Old World had been there mining gold! So how did the Hebrews "lose" their mines? When Solomon died his son Rehoboam was made king, and the ten northern tribes requested some tax relief from the massive building projects etc that Solomon had imposed. Rehoboam rejected the advice of his father's advisors and listened to his young friends who told him to increase their burden, so the ten northern tribes rebelled successfully from the kingdom forming the new nation of Israel. Two tribes remained loyal (Judah and Benjamin) but they were unable to prevent Edom from revolting and lost the vital port. The later kings Jehoshaphat and Uzziah recaptured Ezion-geber, but Jehoshaphat's newly built fleet of ships were utterly wrecked in storms and Uzziah did not choose to build a new fleet. So contact was lost, over time.

So to anyone who wants to find the fabled lost mines of Solomon, I would say to head for the ruins of the ancient city now called Gran Pajaten, up in the northeastern part of Amazonas state, Peru, and start taking panned samples from the feeder streams of the Rio Abiseo. However be aware of the laws of Peru as to foreigners and prospecting, plus treasure trove laws and that the area is extremely remote and more than a little dangerous. (Dang, getting ideas again!)

I had never heard of the Jonathan Swift mines connected to King Solomon, however I would hesitate to use the "ancient Hebrew" coins found in Kentucky to make the connection - these were examined by the foremost expert in ancient Hebrew coins (Prof Meshorer in Israel, now deceased) and he stated they were modern fakes, produced in the 1800s and given to children as rewards etc for doing well in studies and such. Ancient coins are found in the Americas, numerous Roman coins but these are most likely lost in modern times (there are many collectors of ancient Roman bronze coins, they are quite common and cheap generally) and a few Greek (not common) as well as Punic and Numidian, these are harder to dismiss as being lost in modern times as they are not common nor terribly cheap, and few collectors of them - so why should we be finding Punic coins in eleven US states, Bimini, the Azores etc? Getting off topic, but would like to hear more of the connection between Swift and Solomon!

Thanks again for the replies, and I hope you all have a great day!

Oroblanco

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Here is the link regarding King Solomon's Mines/Atlantis/and KY.

Interesting read to say the least.

http://www.burlingtonnews.net/jscott.html

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Thanks for the linkee, this is a fascinating version! I think I have lived almost half my life in Appalachia (haven't counted it out exactly, born in NE PA and lived in VA, two Commonwealths! ) but there are a great number of anomalies in the region. There IS evidence of ancient visitors to the area, which don't tie in exactly with Solomon, but are related; for instance Punic coins found in PA, Mass, VA, GA, NC, a Punic metal urn found in NY state (by an archaeological dig, which the skeptics claim "no such finds are ever made by archaeologists" another lie) Punic inscriptions in Nova Scotia (a bit north), outside of Boston, Mass, on Block Island NY, and in the foundation stones of the strange ruins at Mystery Hill NH, Iberian-punic amphorae (two) found off the coast of Maine, a stone amulet found in Maine with Phoenician writing, two Greek coins found in a river in Conn, Punic grave stones found along the Susquehanna river in PA (not far from Harrisburg, identified by Dr. Fell as "Basque" but I disagree on this) the strange stone tower in RI, the ancient stone bridge in VA, Roman coins washing ashore near Beverly, Mass, and we find mysterious ruins of the Mound Builder culture through much of the area. Also here we find a tribe of giants, (the Susquehannocks) who were also enthusiastic cannibals and were found to be using swords when first encountered by Europeans, a particularly odd type of weapon for Amerindians. This same tribe also wrote in heiroglyphics which are un-deciphered to this day.

Now none of these are "old" enough to date to Solomon, in fact they mostly date to the Classical age or better the mid Iron age. There are two stones found in Ohio (if memory serves) which have what appear to be ancient Hebrew inscriptions, (the heck with memory, fails me all the time so did a google - here is the linkee:

http://economics.sbs.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/decalog.html
Two stones found in Ohio, first the "Keystone"

next the "dekalogue"

(from: http://economics.sbs.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/decalog.html

Of course many "experts" discount these finds as "fakes" or "hoaxes" but some are convinced they are genuine, and are evidence of ancient Hebrew visitors! The Ohio stones may date to a later period (First or Second Revolt) but if so, the people who carried them to Ohio may have known of the place because of the voyages of Solomon's "Navy of Tarshish" in fact that makes sense. 8)

Having done some study on the geology of the Appalachians and did not find good indications for large silver deposits, I have had a negative view of the many tales of lost Indian, Jonathan Swift and other silver mines there. There are some silver mines in the region, so the tales of Swift and lost mines are possible, however a better case for Solomon's source of silver is in SW Spain, (Tartessus-Tarshish) but the source of the gold is more problematic; as I mentioned earlier the Spanish were convinced that Ophir was Peru, and explorer Savoy identified a possible city in Peru. (Johnson and Jones agreed)This does NOT rule out Hebrews in North America however, and there to mine silver, gold or perhaps GEMS! (A pair of rubies found in an ancient tomb in India, believed to date to the time of Alexander the great, when tested by a new method measuring an oxygen isotope were found to have originated in Columbia! This does not tie in with Appalachia directly and of course the "experts" now simply dismiss the ancient Indian tomb as being AFTER Columbus (in spite of all evidence) but remember that Solomon was obtaining gold, silver, GEMS, as well as "Almug" wood - the same wood that the "experts" say is Sandalwood, however Josephus stated it was a type of excellent pine; the old virgin forests of Appalachia had superb timber trees, including pines and chestnut! I am now wondering if that "almug" wood was in fact Chestnut, which resembles Oak but is soft enough to work like pine and resists rot excellently.

Anyway sorry for the digression, I had never much faith in tales of lost silver mines in the Appalachians but now am starting to reconsider that position! I have more research to do now, thank you for the link again as this may help with a project I have been working on some eight years!

Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Oro,
Thanks for the "Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 08:38:23 PM" posting. Lots of good "documented" stuff in one place (i.e., if you consider the OT as history). I guess you are placing Ophir in Peru. You could be right.

Another intriguing possible location for Ophir is the Panamint Range west of Death Valley, CA, and also a number of other related sites leading from there easterly back towards the Gulf of Mexico (original point of disembarkation/embarkation?) from the Panamints-including the Superstition Mountains vicinity in AZ, and Santo Nino de Atocha and Soledad Peak (Victorio Peak) in NM (ancient mining and/or cache sites?). Three years' round trip from the Middle East opens up a number of possible venues.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Thank you for the kind words! I would hesitate to identify any single location as "Ophir" and most biblical scholars are of the opinion that "Ophir" referred to several ports of call, not one single location and this would mean that Peru might well be Ophir, as well as Death Valley AND Appalachia! The name "Ophir" probably does not apply to one city or even a region like Peru, it might be the name for whole continents.

I have found Phoenician names for many American places, such as Asqa Samal (North America) and Bar-Zil (what is today Brazil) so the name Ophir appears not to be Phoenician in origin. It is tempting to conclude the name Ophir is an Amerindian name, since "Piru" is Amerindian, but I cannot confirm this. A "funny" coincidence is that we know that Solomon was refining copper to export, and we have ancient records of Punic merchants who traded copper for gold in their "secret land" (America) and that the native peoples in the secret land valued copper more than gold; then we find that the first European explorers report that Amerindians valued copper more than gold! Coincidence?

There are legends of lost cities in Death Valley in underground caverns etc and really fantastical stuff, might be fun to go look for them some day.

Oroblanco

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Oro, speaking of the underground cities in Death Valley - that would be an interesting exploration, as I have read a lot on that one myself. If half of what is written is true, there may be several clues there about B.C. life in the Americas as well as riches beyond all our expectations.


All of this talk about Solomon's Mines being located in the Americas has me wondering - wouldn't it be a much more plausible explanation that the Native Americans are decendents of miners from the B.C. era than that stupid Alaskan "Landbridge" theory (or, at least some are)

Sounds plausible to me at least. With another plausible theory being the Atlantis' Decendents theory.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Hello Swiftsearcher,
wouldn't it be a much more plausible explanation that the Native Americans are decendents of miners from the B.C. era than that stupid Alaskan "Landbridge" theory (or, at least some are)

That was George Jones theory, that the Amerindians (I won't call them "Native Americans" politically correct or not, NO human beings sprang from the dirt in the Americas, ALL are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants, and it has now been proven that Europeans arrived in the Americas some 7,000 years before the Asiatics) were the descendants of Phoenicians from Tyre and the ten lost tribes of Israel; William Penn and Thomas Jefferson also were of the opinion that Amerindians were Israelites, and cited many similarities such as the habit of not inter-breeding with foreign women (those old tales of Indian warriors raping captured women are actually pretty far from being true) to the practice of circumcision among some tribes. However DNA studies do show that a majority (three fourths) of Amerindians have Asiatic DNA, that is eastern Asia was their point of origin the remainder having European origins. I would expect that any Hebrew and Phoenician miners etc would have simply returned home, probably on the death of Solomon; the ships did not carry women along so if any remained behind, the only way they could have survived would have been to intermarry with local Amerindians (a likely scenario actually, and just look at the effigy mugs of the Moche of Peru to see clear Semitic influences) and over time their DNA would become a smaller and smaller element of the descendants, until it would be difficult to trace at all. The workers at the mines would have had good reason to try to get home too, since Edom rebelled and the critical port of Ezion-geber was lost, the miners would have had to voyage home to Joppa instead, which was under control of the ten northern tribes. If the voyages were in the manner proposed (departing Ezion-geber and returning to Joppa, and alternately in the reverse direction) if the loss of Edom happened while the 'navy of Tarshish' was sailing from Ezion-geber, when they returned to Joppa they could not make a return trip as Ezion-geber was lost.

One can postulate the situation of the miners too, perhaps they received word that Solomon had died, that the country had split, provinces had revolted, their homeland in upheaval and they could not sail to or from Ezion-geber again; worse, if they returned to Ezion-geber and found that the Edomites had gained control they might have been taken prisoner and their ships seized. Any that remained in America might have been awaiting the return of ships from home, without hearing news of what had happened, eventually they would give up hope of ever returning and perhaps try walking home or sought out some place where they could live out their lives.

That Bering Straits land bridge is a theory I have always had trouble with. The scholars also have to add in to this theory an "ice free corridor" that extended down from the Straits into and across Alaska and Yukon, which there is ZERO evidence of there ever being any such "ice free corridor" during the Ice Age. It is far more likely that the Asiatics simply hunted marine mammals along the icy coast of Siberia-Alaska and continued on down the coast until they found the limits of the glacier sheets. There is no doubt that eastern Asiatics did colonize the Americas, but it seems extremely unlikely they could have ever "walked" across, at least not in the time period when it is KNOWN that they arrived.

In favor of the land bridge theory, horses made it from the Americas to Eurasia, then died out in the Americas so there must have been a period when there were almost NO glaciers covering the far north, however this period does not coincide with the Asiatics time of colonizing.

Oroblanco

 

[treasure minder]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

I'll assume that this post will not be deleted as some of my other post have been.

First to be concidered is whether we are
actually dealing with " MINES"

We are not
As i have posited heretoforew
the gold of Ophir was removed from storehouses here
such as Victorio Peak

Gold already smelted into bar form long before the
Solomonic period.

Address properly the protocol
of the gold gathering and smelting
and draw the chronology correctly.

The gold was mined
smelted
by hominids by directive of their enslavers
those enslavers
are commented upon
in anceint script by the hands of the sumerians.

Sumer,,,, todays Iraq
Has a great formulated and collective
of information to be discovered and revealed.

As i have stated , seek deeper
father back in time
keep the open end of your mind
ready for alter info that your public schools have brainwashed
you into concidering to be B.S.

As a consumate witness to the actual artifacts of this
species
I can well tell you that it is absoluty the honest truth


Rog'

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Hello Rog,

Quite an interesting post!

the gold of Ophir was removed from storehouses here
such as Victorio Peak

Gold already smelted into bar form long before the
Solomonic period.


First, why do you connect Solomon with Victorio Peak in New Mexico? The bars reported there were of the modern, oblong rectangular type NOT of the ancient type, which were commonly cast in the form of "ox-hides" and also in a "wedge" - read "the golden wedge of Ophir" in OT sources. Then there is the reported Spanish armor found at Victorio Peak, which is about 2400 years out of date with the time of Solomon. (A side note here is in order, but the gold of Ophir brought to Solomon was described as "wedges" or "tongues" the Hebrew word means the same thing either way, not in bar form. I cannot find any ancient bars of any type of metal during the early Iron Age which were cast in bar form like we have used for the last 600 years or so.) There is evidence of ancient Semitic visitors to New Mexico but the evidence is some distance (almost 200 miles as the crow flies) from the site of Victorio Peak and appears to be some type of holy shrine, (the Los Lunas "dekalogue") with no hint of any kind of link to gold or Solomon. Can you show me some cast bars of metal of any kind that dates to 1000 BC? If so I can re-examine the idea of linking Victorio Peak.


Address properly the protocol
of the gold gathering and smelting
and draw the chronology correctly.

The gold was mined
smelted
by hominids by directive of their enslavers
those enslavers
are commented upon
in anceint script by the hands of the sumerians.

Sumer,,,, todays Iraq

I believe I have presented the chronology correctly, the Hebrew and Phoenician miners dug the ore out and processed it, then shipped the "wedges of Ophir" home to Solomon.

I believe you have read Zechariah Sitchin, (The Twelfth Planet?) and perhaps arrived at different conclusions than I did. His interpretation of ancient Sumerian texts tells of strange visitors from the skies, who "made" a slave race to mine gold for them in Mesopotamia to export to the "gods" home. This "slave race" of half-apes is MAN, not another species. The mining activity referred to in the Sumerian texts is within the same region as Sumer, not on a distant continent. The Sumerians were not renowned explorers of the seas. There is no reason to suppose that ancient Sumerians were in the Americas working on gold mines for their "sky gods" when we can find the mines and places they refer to right within what is today Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia.


As i have stated , seek deeper
father back in time
keep the open end of your mind
ready for alter info that your public schools have brainwashed
you into concidering to be B.S.

As a consumate witness to the actual artifacts of this
species
I can well tell you that it is absoluty the honest truth


I do make every effort to keep an open mind and have found that we are indeed taught many lies including the whole Isolationist idea, that the Americas were utterly isolated from the Old World from the end of the Ice Age until the arrival of Leif Eriksson. The slave species referred to in the ancient Sumerian texts is homo sapiens, who are "in the image of God" yet are directly related to the apes. I see no evidence to suggest that the gold of Ophir, "King Solomon's Mines" is in any way related to the tremendous treasure found in Victorio Peak NM. Were ancient Hebrews and Phoenicians coming to America? Absolutely, in fact this is the premise of a book I have been working on for some eight years now, however as to some other ancient visitors we have far less evidence to support the idea. There is a plethora of evidence of ancient Chinese visits, not a lot of evidence of Norse visitors, less so of Henry Sinclair or Saint Brendan or the Welsh under Madoc, almost no proof of Basques, Brittanese, or Malays; some hints of Egyptian visitors (however these may have been passengers of Phoenician vessels, as it is known the Egyptians hired Phoenicians for important sea voyages) and Celts (again likely to have been passengers and mercenaries of Punic voyagers) but of Sumerians there is precious little. There ARE two clay tablets found in America with cuneiform inscriptions, one found among the possessions of the famous Nez Perce chief Joseph on his death, the other found on a beach in Georgia, but one is Babylonian (over a thousand years after the Sumerians) the other Assyrian (again more than 1000 years after Sumerians) and there is no reason to believe the two clay tablets were carried to America BY the people who made them; when we have seafaring merchants who were known to trade with these places and to voyage over all the seas who are more likely the agents of having transported these enigmas to America.

I would love to hear your view of how the Sumerians are connected to this, and why you connect the treasure of Victorio Peak to Solomon? Thank you in advance,

Oroblanco

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

What about the giants of America? Compare to Canaanites/Phoenicians.

 

[gord]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

What would be the result of considering these 'underground cities' and constructed tunnel systems to be bunkers/fallout shelters used during/after those conflicts (sometimes referred to as 'nuclear war') mentioned in the ancient Indian texts?
Gord

 

[Springfield]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Oro, if I'm not mistaken, the "golden wedge of ophir" is a descriptive term that refers either to the source of the gold, or an aspect of Ophir, not the shape of the bars themselves. Therefore, we might try to figure out what a 'golden wedge' could mean.

And ... tunnel systems. Are there any rumors or legends about tunneling occuring under any of your various parts of the country? Specifically, distinct 'diesel-like' noises seeming to come from subsurface, or 'off-limits' buildings that are constructed then are dissassembled and removed a couple yrears later with nobody knowing what their purpose was? Just wondering.

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Without getting the "100 Tons of Gold" book from the shelf, I seem to remember swords and Spanish armor mentioned in the the findings (and I think there was a pic of Mrs. Noss with some items of this vintage).

I do really doubt all of the Victorio Peak loot being from Solomon's time. Probably Indian Plunder hinden away.

BTW - anyone know if the Voctorio Peak loot was the same Willie Douthit had stolen from him a few years earlier? If this theory is correct, as presented and hinted to in "100 Tons of Gold", then the Victorio Peak loot did not even originate from Victorio Peak. If that is not where the Victorio Peak loot came from, whatever became of Willie Douthit's treasure that was stolen from him Anyone know the names of the Texans who stole Willie Douthit's "find"

I have read a lot about underground cities and various noises coming from them. I can say, first hand, I have heard noises at certain places while in the field coming from "underground" that should not be!

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

There were giants in the Americas, many remains of giants were found in Mound builder sites, and one tribe encountered (mentioned earlier, Susquehannocks) were giants. Phoenicians were not physically large, at least not according to any ancient accounts; Polybius said they were smaller than Romans, and Romans were described as small compared to Gauls and the even larger Germans. There were Philistine giants, and giants are described as living in Canaan when the Israelites arrived there, but were they Canaanites? (Canaanites, Phoenicians and Punic are all directly related in fact they called themselves "ki-na-ani" whether they lived in Gades {Spain} or Carthage or Sidon or Tyre) There is ancient evidence that the Mediterranean people were aware of giants in the Americas, read Aelian Varia Historia. (men twice as tall as ordinary men)

What would be the result of considering these 'underground cities' and constructed tunnel systems to be bunkers/fallout shelters used during/after those conflicts (sometimes referred to as 'nuclear war') mentioned in the ancient Indian texts?


Boy there is an idea; there have been suggestions that those huge stone pyramids and other structures were built to withstand nuclear attacks and the effects of radiation, there is a site in India that seems to have been hit by a nuclear blast. An underground city to protect the inhabitants from a nuclear attack makes sense, and this brings up the question of date. The Indian texts (Maharata, Bagavad Gita, Samara Sutradhara, Ramana and others) cannot be dated to what time period the events were supposed to have taken place. It seems to be talking about a period very far back in history, possibly 5000 plus years ago. If the underground city (or cities) in Death Valley could be located and they were found to date to approximately the same period, this would seem to be pretty strong circumstantial evidence of some very strange events going on!

Springfield wrote:
Oro, if I'm not mistaken, the "golden wedge of ophir" is a descriptive term that refers either to the source of the gold, or an aspect of Ophir, not the shape of the bars themselves. Therefore, we might try to figure out what a 'golden wedge' could mean.


There seems to be some misconception of what ancient ingots were shaped like. Prior to the Roman empire, the familiar rectangular "brick" shape was not used, instead they cast metals in various shapes including wedges, round 'buns', boat shapes, rings, and rarely in 'bar' form but long, thin and narrow bars that could easily be cut into small pieces for making change in the days prior to coins.

Isaiah the prophet wrote this statement, which certainly implies a shape of a gold ingot: I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir" (Isaiah 13:9-12 KJV
and we know that wedges, rings and lumps of gold were common pre-coinage types of money. (See Harper's Bible Dictionary, Miller and Miller, pp 231, and many other sources on ancient coinage and pre-coinage money) here is a (modern) replica of an ancient Chinese gold ingot, shaped like a boat:

Other shapes common for ancient ingots were round, button shapes, buns like this copper "bun" ingot recovered from the Cape Gelidoniya wreck (which dates to the Bronze Age, and is not far from the time of the Hebrew kings

Here are some copper "oxhide" ingots from the Cape Gelidoniya wreck (Bronze age, concurrent with Hebrew kings or close to time)

Of course some of the religious feel that Isaiah passage refers to the Messiah, a "man" worth more than a "golden wedge of Ophir". However ancient ingots of metals were rarely cast in rectangular bars until the time of the Roman empire, which is over 1000 years after the period of Solomon.

I wonder if the sounds of underground "something" is not related to the Taos "hum"?
Oroblanco

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

The Phoenicians were Canaanites. One of their chief cities was
named Sidon, who was the firstborn son of Canaan. They were later
called Phoenicians, one branch becoming Carthaginians.
By the time of King Solomon, it is believed that the Phoenicians
were mixed with the Myceneans, who taught them much of their
seafaring ways.

The Phoenicians, as Canaanites, would have been cousins to men
like Og of Bashan (an Amorite), whos bed measured more than 13 feet
in length and 6 feet in width.

If these Phoenicians were early Americans, then who might have been
the giants of early America? Native Americans were an extended family
of waring tribes. So were the Canaanites.

Some also believe that the Sinites, another Canaanite tribe, became
the Mongolians/Chinese, who later crossed the land bridge to America.
All one family.

The Phoenicians practiced sacrificing their children to a god. The Incas
did exactly that.
Both the Canannites and the Incas worshipped a mother goddess of
fertility (sex cult).

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: King Solomon's Mines

Greetings,

Jbot wrote:
By the time of King Solomon, it is believed that the Phoenicians
were mixed with the Myceneans, who taught them much of their
seafaring ways.


That is one interpretation of history, however Phoenicians were seafaring circa 2500 BC and even earlier (Sidon being "Fish-town" and the Mycenaeans did not become a power on the sea until the fall of the Minoans (about 1500 BC) who are believed by some scholars to have been originally Phoenician princes). A recent special on the History channel shows direct linkage between Hebrews and Mycenaeans, and Phoenicians also colonized Greece directly (this according to the ancient Greeks themselves, look up Cadmus, who came from Phoenicia and brought the alphabet to the semi-civilized Greeks and founded the city of Thebes) as well as many of the Greek islands. If anyone taught the art of seafaring, it was the Phoenicians who taught the Greeks, not the other way round. Phoenicians circumnavigated Africa c. 600 BC, Greeks did not attempt this until Ptolemy Lagus, 300 BC; Phoenicians sailed beyond the Pillars of Herakles well before 1200 BC, Greeks did not attempt this prior to Pytheas, c.380 BC and many other instances; the Phoenicians were the premier seafarers of their day, far superior to the Greeks, Egyptians and later Romans. They were bringing cloves from the Molluccas in extreme SE Asia to the Mediterranean in the days before the pyramids were built, along with all kinds of exotic goods such as spices, ivory, ebony, frankincense, myrrh etc and founded over 300 cities along the Atlantic coast of Africa c.1000 BC (read Strabo's description). Phoenicians were planting colonies in Ireland and England where they obtained the vital tin needed to make bronze, trading in the Baltic for amber and even explored the Nile searching for the source of the great river before the Persian wars c480 BC. The western Phoenicians (Punic, Carthaginians) sent out deliberate missions of exploration into the Atlantic and Indian oceans, and may even have reached the Americas (I am convinced they did, there is evidence to support it.) so it seems very unlikely that the Phoenicians were taught the art of seafaring by the Mycenaeans, nor the Minoans or Egyptians for that matter, since all of these peoples used the small, open-topped boats which were well suited for sailing up rivers and on calm waters but very un-suited for the open oceans. Art frescoes of the Minoans and Mycenaeans show the types of boats they used, which look remarkably like the 'taxi' boats (gondolas) of modern Venice. Here is an example of the types of boats used by Minoans and Mycenaeans:
Mycenaean:

Minoan:

Compare to a common merchant vessel of the type used by Phoenicians:

also

Read the Old Testament descriptions of Phoenician ships, referred to as "ships of Tarshish" in Isaiah and Ezekiel, they were using large, decked ships with tall masts and keels, well suited for oceanic voyages.

Anyway just a difference of opinion, there are folks who credit many discoveries to the Greeks, and many who credit discoveries to the Romans, and to the Egyptians etc most people are unaware of the mysterious Phoenicians whose "empire lay in the seas" though their practice of child sacrifice seems to have gained them notoriety - even though this practice is even found in the Old Testament (read the account of Abraham offering his first born son) and no one finds the Roman practice of wholesale slaughter in their gladiatorial combats, for the sake of entertainment! Some have theorized that the practice of child sacrifice may have been a form of birth control; also there is evidence to suggest that the practice died out well before the Phoenicians were conquered - even the notorious Tophet in Carthage, with the remains of many children, may well have simply been a children's cemetary, since NO children's remains have ever been found in ANY other Punic cemetary within Carthage. Thanks for the many interesting replies! Much material to consider and research!

Oroblanco