Jean Laffite actual last known domicile and headquarters on Galveston Island Texas.

 

Reb,.....if only it were that easy. From previous conversations you know that I am a stickler for documentation, or the smoking guns, as I like to call them. Part of the problem with history is that it has been written as fact without these smoking guns and so a great deal of the time we're left with only “educated guesses” at best.



When we set out to on fact finding missions it is everyone's hope to find those smoking guns in the form a single document, something that will be easy to present once the claim is made and yet it seldom happens that way. More often then not those smoking guns end up being a huge trail of evidence that only “suggest” the conclusion is fact and so history is often written in suggestive form rather then fact.


The reason I'm telling you this is because when you say, “share some of the details” you are talking volumes on volumes of evidence leading up to the “suggestive fact” and you cannot present anything new, even as suggestive fact, without also presenting all of the supporting evidence. In the case of Laffitte, can you imagine how much might have to be written/presented in order to solidify even the smallest claim?


On more then one occasion we have discussed a series of books but in all honesty this becomes a momentous task, not to mention that we are still very active in many areas of this ongoing research and probably will be for many years to come. All I can tell you at this point in regards to Jean Laffitte is that general history is wrong. And, no, I highly doubt that today's scholars would make the claim that he sail from Galveston Island with several ships loaded with plunder. After the Hurricane of 1818 he no longer had several ships, most of the survivors of Champ de Asile having to walk back to New Orleans, Laffitte unable to provide them the same passage as he had during their arrival into the region.
 

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As for gold being at Galveston Island? There are some conflicting survivor accounts in existence that make this unclear. In one breath they speak of having no gold, yet in another they complain of traders who ventured into the region to trade goods for gold. This brings up the obvious question as to why traders would continue to venture into the region to trade for gold if there was none to be had?

If the memoirs are factual then there was gold on Galveston Island. And if we go by just the evidence uncovered in our research then it is possible, if not likely, that there was quite a bit of gold being held in the region and possibly elsewhere. But here again, at this point all of this is just suggestive evidence that leaves quite a bit to educated guesswork. As of today, there is no smoking gun to prove or disprove this either way.
 

Corporate Investigations said:
Hello Gentlemen Please do not turn into boys.....and turn this thread into a fight over differences of opinion over the pettiness of Pirate or privateer. Academic qualifications mean nothing if you cannot keep a cool head.

I personaly would like to know more on the story with Lafitte.

I do not know if he was one or the other or perhaps even both?

on a side note Academics have derided Wikipedia on many occasion. However Wikipedia in spirit is good for a general reference guide of a story but it should never be relied on as a 100% proven factual source either. That said kudos to those contributed freely their time in good spirit of what Wikipedia was intended. Its a pity more academics did not get off their high horse and contribute more than just deride...... That said academics have made much of their work unattainable and even then some of their assumptions in their own work have later proven later to have flaws to also.

One thing I am sure you all agree on is Lafitte is enigmatic figure from history.

Here is a letter Lafitte in which you might find interesting dated 1815.

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=997018"/>

<img src="http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=997019"/>

From this letter I did get the impression he did not personally regard himself in that time frame at least a pirate? If he had? I cannot understand why he would be bothering to ask for restitution if he thought he was a pirate? That said it is only one tiny aspect of his life and much of it we have to rely on what others said about him. My impression and I state that is my humble opinion. Lafitte got double crossed in believing he had some presence of authority in New Orleans. That was, I believe one driving factors that made him shift operations further west.

Amy
Click to expand...

Hello Amy
Whatever info your looking for about the Laffitte bros. I may be able to help you with. I've spent years following the Laffittes. I love the history there. I have some proof of them in the northeast connecting to some prominent people especially in the philadelphia area.
 

tat2guy said:
Reb let's sit down over coffee for a few days and ill spill the beans about Laffitte. It would take weeks to post some of the info. Just saying
Click to expand...

You should take him up on that Reb. :thumbsup: But, it may take several pots of coffee......:laughing7:
 

bigscoop said:
...

If the memoirs are factual then there was gold on Galveston Island. And if we go by just the evidence uncovered in our research then it is possible, if not likely, that there was quite a bit of gold being held in the region and possibly elsewhere. But here again, at this point all of this is just suggestive evidence that leaves quite a bit to educated guesswork. As of today, there is no smoking gun to prove or disprove this either way.
Click to expand...
MEMOIRS OF JEAN LAFITTE-DATED JAN 4,1847:
Claims on Feb 24,1821 preparing to leave Galveston:"William Cochrane arrived with news of the return of Lt Kearny.I recommended to Mr Hall,Mr Campbell,Mr Sherman and those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
That leads one to believe that if there was gold on Galveston,it was MOVED to the indicated places.
The Campbell mentioned may have been one of LaFitte's Captains,James Campbell,who with wife Mary Sabinal Campbell settled in Texas.The mention of Bolivar is interesting-a Florida pirate who associated with LaFitte was said to have joined up with Bolivar after Spain sold Florida to the US in 1821.
The question remains:Where were the indicated places?
 

ECS said:
MEMOIRS OF JEAN LAFITTE-DATED JAN 4,1847:
Claims on Feb 24,1821 preparing to leave Galveston:"William Cochrane arrived with news of the return of Lt Kearny.I recommended to Mr Hall,Mr Campbell,Mr Sherman and those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
That leads one to believe that if there was gold on Galveston,it was MOVED to the indicated places.
The Campbell mentioned may have been one of LaFitte's Captains,James Campbell,who with wife Mary Sabinal Campbell settled in Texas.The mention of Bolivar is interesting-a Florida pirate who associated with LaFitte was said to have joined up with Bolivar after Spain sold Florida to the US in 1821.
The question remains:Where were the indicated places?
Click to expand...

Indicated places were mentioned in my opinion
 

First, before we get off and running, even with all the evidence that we have, and I can't believe I'm the one actually saying this, we're still missing that absolute and critical smoking gun. We have some smoking guns in a few other areas but we're still missing a couple of absolute smoking guns in key areas that ties it all together. :BangHead: :laughing7:
 

tat2guy said:
Indicated places were mentioned in my opinion
Click to expand...
You are aware of all the alleged of buried LaFitte treasure in Florida and in the other coastal states and that wagon story in a Texas lake.With his Philadelphia connections,I doubt LaFitte would bury his wealth.
 

ECS said:
MEMOIRS OF JEAN LAFITTE-DATED JAN 4,1847:
Claims on Feb 24,1821 preparing to leave Galveston:"William Cochrane arrived with news of the return of Lt Kearny.I recommended to Mr Hall,Mr Campbell,Mr Sherman and those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
That leads one to believe that if there was gold on Galveston,it was MOVED to the indicated places.
The Campbell mentioned may have been one of LaFitte's Captains,James Campbell,who with wife Mary Sabinal Campbell settled in Texas.The mention of Bolivar is interesting-a Florida pirate who associated with LaFitte was said to have joined up with Bolivar after Spain sold Florida to the US in 1821.
The question remains:Where were the indicated places?
Click to expand...

Bolivar is the peninsula northeast of Galveston, across the mouth of Galveston Bay.
 

I believe the "smoking gun" will always remain missing.
Yes,there are many players in this ,from bankers to military leaders and politicians,and several US Presidents,but...
 

ECS said:
I believe the "smoking gun" will always remain missing.
Yes,there are many players in this ,from bankers to military leaders and politicians,and several US Presidents,but...
Click to expand...

Just recently I ran across something that may help to explain one missing answer and I just forwarded that info to Tat but we've not had a chance to really discuss it or to evaluate it yet. So I assure you, if that smoking gun is out there we will eventually find it. I firmly believe that if we are on the right track then it has to be out there somewhere. In fact, I think for some it would have even been required.
 

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Could President and Dictator "Simon Bolivar" be the "Smoking Gun"?

ECS said:
MEMOIRS OF JEAN LAFITTE-DATED JAN 4,1847:
Claims on Feb 24,1821 preparing to leave Galveston:"William Cochrane arrived with news of the return of Lt Kearny.I recommended to Mr Hall,Mr Campbell,Mr Sherman and those of Bolivar to keep our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places".
That leads one to believe that if there was gold on Galveston,it was MOVED to the indicated places.
The Campbell mentioned may have been one of LaFitte's Captains,James Campbell,who with wife Mary Sabinal Campbell settled in Texas.The mention of Bolivar is interesting-a Florida pirate who associated with LaFitte was said to have joined up with Bolivar after Spain sold Florida to the US in 1821.
The question remains:Where were the indicated places?
Click to expand...

I was curious why Jean Lafitte would have named his ship " General Santander" so I researched it.
It appears General Francisco de Paula Santander was a revolutionary leader for South America for it's independence from Spain.

Francisco de Paula Santander - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

He fought under Simon Bolivar who became President of the Republic of Columbia.

Jean Lafitte also proclaimed that he was not a pirate but a fighter for the War of Independence of Mexico against Spain.

All the time lines co-ordinate with these three Patriots!
 

I think we have to understand the world climate in the era in question before we can truly begin to get a better picture of who, or what, Jean Laffitte really was. The world was very unstable, revolutions on the brink everywhere, Europe is in turmoil, the United States is still in its infancy and still trying to establish its borders with everyone still trying to get a piece of her. With all of this taking place nobody could be certain who was going to end up controlling what or who their next ally could possibly be just out of necessity or political convenience. So I think it's safe to say at this point that Laffitte was both an opportunist and a victim in the mix of all of this.


Evidence strongly supports that Laffitte was protected politically, his antics and actions being tolerated way above that of many others. It's also worth noting that during this period Laffitte always seemed to be there on the front lines. We saw this in New Orleans in face of the British attack and then later we see this again when he relocated into the disputed territory, or neutral ground, as agreed to by the United States and Spain. When James Monroe finally waged war on piracy he used force at Amelia Island yet he continued to maintain a blind eye on Galveston Island in the face of strong Spanish protest until the Adam's Onis Treaty, the treaty that settled that border dispute, had been signed and it was nearing ratification. Even then only one war ship was dispatched, first to deliver an evacuation order and then a second time to insure the evacuation had been honored as agreed.


So with just these few examples it starts to become apparent that Laffitte was something more then just a simple pirate.
 

bigscoop said:
First, before we get off and running, even with all the evidence that we have, and I can't believe I'm the one actually saying this, we're still missing that absolute and critical smoking gun. We have some smoking guns in a few other areas but we're still missing a couple of absolute smoking guns in key areas that ties it all together. :BangHead: :laughing7:
Click to expand...

HA! WHAT "absolute" "smoking guns"...?
 

bigscoop said:
Have that pot of coffee with Tat. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...

LOL! WHAT "KEY areas"...? Key West does sound good; Spain had "control" of America from Florida west, along the Gulf Coast... wanted Mexico. THEN, PREZ "TJ" did the Louisiana Purchase, and Vice-Prez "AB" wanted WEST of Louisana (Spanish Territory & MEXICO) for his own EMPIRE. See Thomas Jefferson/Aaron Burr "conflict" in the CLOUDY MIST OF TIME!
 

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