Jean Laffite actual last known domicile and headquarters on Galveston Island Texas.

[el padron]

edit

 

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[wetfly]

What a shame! Such a great piece of history to let go like that sadly it's a common story! It would be pretty hard not to wanna swing a coil over the whole lot though! Thanks for sharing!!

 

[el padron]

What a shame! Such a great piece of history to let go like that sadly it's a common story! It would be pretty hard not to wanna swing a coil over the whole lot though! Thanks for sharing!!

Its been done, .....

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What a shame! Such a great piece of history to let go like that sadly it's a common story! It would be pretty hard not to wanna swing a coil over the whole lot though! Thanks for sharing!!

LOTS of GREAT INFO; THANKS for sharing, "el padron". I would volunteer to help with "up-keep" of the place, as I LIKE Jean... BUT! I live in Virginia. Jean was a FRENCHMAN... with "clues" in French.

 

[el padron]

This part of Galveston went about 6 feet under water during hurricane Ike in September 2008, A little after that I noticed the shallow spot just to the rear of where the footprint of the old house would have come to a corner.
It is the main well shaft that is lined with red brick and mortar in a similar fashion to what the existing ruins pilings consist of. It is wide enough so that two men, probably slaves would have taken turns digging it out and lining the upper 10 feet or so with brick and mortar.

Wells were built much better a few hundred years ago as they were extremely valuable to the persons that relied on them. Of course a pirate King could afford the luxury of having a well built superior well directly behind his home.

Today it is completely filled in up to the top and it is almost certain that when the Lafitte's men burned the fortress and existing pirate village around it, they would have certainly thrown excess property down the well and covered it, so as to render it unusable.

Maison Rouge has been described as one of the most luxuriously appointed homes located in the Spanish wilderness at that time . Considering this was Lafitte's private domicile for over five years, these artifacts would be directly associated with the pirate Chieftain himself.

 

[bigscoop]

Maison Rouge was not originally built as his personal residence, nor was he a notorious pirate in the classical sense, but rather he was a privateer. There are many theories as to why Galveston Island was chosen as his new base, this location having been previously occupied Louis Aury. As an interesting sidebar you might want to research the Adam's Onis Treaty and also Champ de Asile. What you will find is an amazing assortment of documents that will start to shed much better light on the real reasons for his being there. In 1818 George Graham, described as a banker, took a secret trip to Galveston Island via Monroe, but Graham was not a banker, his time in office even including the Secretary of War. When Laffitte finally left the island it was widely circulated and printed that he was forced from the island by the attack of American warships, which we now know today isn't true. What we do know is that one American war ship did arrive at Galveston Island near the conclusion of the Adam's Onis Treaty and then once more after that treaty was ratified. We also know that at that time Laffite had been preparing to leave the island and that he did so on the day promised without any conflict whatsoever. What is no longer with us, however, are the records of that American warship's exact purpose and conversations during that first visit, in which the commander of that vessel spent time on the island in the company of Laffitte. There is much of great interest yet to be discovered in regards to Jean Laffite and his enterprise.

 

[releventchair]

Intrigue!

 

[el padron]

What a shame! Such a great piece of history to let go like that sadly it's a common story! It would be pretty hard not to wanna swing a coil over the whole lot though! Thanks for sharing!!

@wetfly

Galveston Island Tourism bases their entire campaign on association with Jean Laffite, yet they leave the actual site of his home to rot.... Its really amazing....

 

[el padron]

For five years Laffite had Galveston Island completely to himself, operated with impunity, and this particular period has been described by several sources as the most profitable in his entire pirate career.
He actually was not a privateer because all along he never had the necessary letters from any sovereign entity to prove it. Some say that later he received a commission from Colombia but others say he had already passed by this time.

Not much is actually known about Laffitte.
Needless to say he was a very mysterious character and trying to glean information about him from a Wikipedia article accomplishes relatively little.
He did however live on the spot, adorn his house with the most opulent and luxurious furnishings west of New Orleans, and according to the diaries of the American officers that were sent to evict him, he left Galveston Island with several ships full of plundered treasure

 

[el padron]

Maison Rouge was not originally built as his personal residence, nor was he a notorious pirate in the classical sense, but rather he was a privateer. There are many theories as to why Galveston Island was chosen as his new base, this location having been previously occupied Louis Aury. As an interesting sidebar you might want to research the Adam's Onis Treaty and also Champ de Asile. What you will find is an amazing assortment of documents that will start to shed much better light on the real reasons for his being there. In 1818 George Graham, described as a banker, took a secret trip to Galveston Island via Monroe, but Graham was not a banker, his time in office even including the Secretary of War. When Laffitte finally left the island it was widely circulated and printed that he was forced from the island by the attack of American warships, which we now know today isn't true. What we do know is that one American war ship did arrive at Galveston Island near the conclusion of the Adam's Onis Treaty and then once more after that treaty was ratified. We also know that at that time Laffite had been preparing to leave the island and that he did so on the day promised without any conflict whatsoever. What is no longer with us, however, are the records of that American warship's exact purpose and conversations during that first visit, in which the commander of that vessel spent time on the island in the company of Laffitte. There is much of great interest yet to be discovered in regards to Jean Laffite and his enterprise.

You know, the good folks at Texas A&M take their Texas history to the level of fanaticism and they also write the verbage on the historical state marker plaques.
All those PHD's certainly know the difference between a privateer and a pirate, If they label Laffite as a pirate, you can pretty much take that as accurate.
Also life is to short for me to research the Adam's Onis Treaty and also Champ de Asile.

You see, I have a business to run, and I'm not a historian, nor do I profess to be. I do enjoy history, but I don't intend on knowing every heinous detail that has ever been written about Jean Laffite (French spelling) the Gulf coast Pirate that built his home and fortress on Galveston Island and that lived there from 1816 to 1821.

I have treasure hunted long enough to easily identify a lost well on a neglected site that Texas archeologists should at some time in the near future excavate for the history that surely lies below.

 

[Corporate Investigations]

The distinction between Pirate and privateer can be simplified a pirate is unlicensed with no letter of marque and privateer has a letter of marque. But if a privateer rustled through your pockets for money I bet you you will be calling him a pirate.

And yes thank you for the interesting posts. It is sad such a historical site is sadly neglected. A sad condemnation of how much history is valued and taught in the schools today.

Amy

 

[bigscoop]

You know, the good folks at Texas A&M take their Texas history to the level of fanaticism and they also write the verbage on the historical state marker plaques.
All those PHD's certainly know the difference between a privateer and a pirate, If they label Laffite as a pirate, you can pretty much take that as accurate.

If you say so.

 

[el padron]

If you say so.

Tell you what, If you can prove that Laffite was advocated by a sovereign entity in writing every time he stole a cargo or took over a ship I would congratulate you on your vast knowledge of history, and the fact that you have achieved what no one else before you ever has.

However, Laffite flew the Mexican Flag the entire time he was based at Galveston and had never recieved letters authorizing him to do so. In fact he had nothing of the kind from any nation at all during that period. No evidense of letters of marque have ever been found advocating his activities during that time period.

That makes him a pirate, okay?
By the way the state college system and government of the state of Texas agrees with me also.

Maybe later when I have some time I will rewrite the original post in a simpler form for you, I've had to do that a few times here lately....

I'm just a guy with a metal detector fluent in three languages with a bachelors degree in Finance...., Not a self professed historian like you.
Maybe you should go back to Wikipedia real quick and try to save some face, because it looks to me that you just need a shoulder to cry on.

So you're welcome for the effort I've taken, The narrative I've written and the pictures I've posted.

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Hello Gentlemen Please do not turn into boys.....and turn this thread into a fight over differences of opinion over the pettiness of Pirate or privateer. Academic qualifications mean nothing if you cannot keep a cool head.

I personaly would like to know more on the story with Lafitte.

I do not know if he was one or the other or perhaps even both?

on a side note Academics have derided Wikipedia on many occasion. However Wikipedia in spirit is good for a general reference guide of a story but it should never be relied on as a 100% proven factual source either. That said kudos to those contributed freely their time in good spirit of what Wikipedia was intended. Its a pity more academics did not get off their high horse and contribute more than just deride...... That said academics have made much of their work unattainable and even then some of their assumptions in their own work have later proven later to have flaws to also.

One thing I am sure you all agree on is Lafitte is enigmatic figure from history.

Here is a letter Lafitte in which you might find interesting dated 1815.





From this letter I did get the impression he did not personally regard himself in that time frame at least a pirate? If he had? I cannot understand why he would be bothering to ask for restitution if he thought he was a pirate? That said it is only one tiny aspect of his life and much of it we have to rely on what others said about him. My impression and I state that is my humble opinion. Lafitte got double crossed in believing he had some presence of authority in New Orleans. That was, I believe one driving factors that made him shift operations further west.

Amy

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hello Gentlemen Please do not turn into boys.....and turn this thread into a fight over differences of opinion over the pettiness of Pirate or privateer. Academic qualifications mean nothing if you cannot keep a cool head.

I personaly would like to know more on the story with Lafitte.

I do not know if he was one or the other or perhaps even both?

on a side note Academics have derided Wikipedia on many occasion. However Wikipedia in spirit is good for a general reference guide of a story but it should never be relied on as a 100% proven factual source either. That said kudos to those contributed freely their time in good spirit of what Wikipedia was intended. Its a pity more academics did not get off their high horse and contribute more than just deride...... That said academics have made much of their work unattainable and even then some of their assumptions in their own work have later proven later to have flaws to also.

One thing I am sure you all agree on is Lafitte is enigmatic figure from history.

Here is a letter Lafitte in which you might find interesting dated 1815.

View attachment 997018

View attachment 997019

From this letter I did get the impression he did not personally regard himself in that time frame at least a pirate? If he had? I cannot understand why he would be bothering to ask for restitution if he thought he was a pirate? That said it is only one tiny aspect of his life and much of it we have to rely on what others said about him. My impression and I state that is my humble opinion. Lafitte got double crossed in believing he had some presence of authority in New Orleans. That was, I believe one driving factors that made him shift operations further west.

Amy

Agree, let's just share R & I (Research & Investigation). My R & I indicate Jean was a FRENCHMAN; a Sephardi Jew... HIS "Temple" in New Orleans (French Quarters) is a "clue"; and a SPY for SPAIN, against MEXICO! Hmmm... need MORE
"High-Test" COFFEE!

 

[Robot]

Vaya Con Dios - Jean


My tale of Jean Laffite happened 35 years ago while I was living in the port town of Progreso in the Yucatan Peninsula.
I had family connections in the Mexican Government and was studying Archaeology of the ancient Mayans, more precisely ancient Mayan Cenotes (wells) and the ritual of tossing in of gold for the appeasement to their Gods.
The American mid-19th century John Stephens had dredged the Cenote at Chichen Itza and recovered $2 million in gold and this find was foremost in my mind.
I had located other isolated Cenotes and wished to treasure hunt the same. (another story).

The Mexican government loaned me their helicopter to research the Gulf of Mexico from Merida up to the Rio la Gatos.
We set down in between at Dzilam De Bravo where I heard the most interesting tale of Jean Laffite.
It was here at a grave that the locals told me the story that in the early 1800's Jean had arrived by his ship, deathly ill, seeking help.
I was told by the old ones that he was sick and trying to get to Merida for medical help but died on route.
He died at Dzilam De Bravo and was buried there and the locals were proud to show me where his grave was located.
It was always curious to me why this location and what he may have been doing in this remote part of the world?
The best I could surmise is that he was driven out of America once his usefulness was achieved and was searching for a location to conceal his treasure still close to his American routes.
At Progreso, I inquired from the locals and the secret was of an island just 17 kilometers from Progreso (on the map) where when fisherman did risk going there Spanish coins were found on the beach.
At that time I heard the Mexican Government declared this island to be off limits to all.
To this date I always thought of boating out to this island for a pick nick.


A statue dedicated to the pirate Jean Lafitte can be found next to the water by the fishing boats
In February 1823, the infamous pirate Jean Lafitte, severely wounded from an encounter with Spanish warships, sailed his schooner General Santander westward from the coast of Cuba into oblivion. Lafitte’s fate has remained a mystery for 183 years. Historians and his biographers have offered different theories. Some believe he died of his wounds and was buried on Isla Mujeres, Yucatan’s Isle of Women. Others believe he was buried at Dzilam De Bravo and a monument was erected to mark the site after a hurricane washed the original grave into the sea. Some more fanciful theories are that he recovered from his wounds and sailed to the Mediterranean where he succeeded in rescuing Napoleon Bonaparte from St. Helena. There are many theories. But the one that seems to have the most credence is the one passed down as fact over the generations by the families of Dzilam De Bravo. According to oral history, the dying Lafitte was brought ashore by his brother Philipe and his daughter Lucia. When Jean died, he was buried in the local churchyard. Lucia remained in the village, was adopted by Inez Estrada Cedil, was later married, and the blue-eyed dynasty was begun.

 

[el padron]

@Robot

Wow, that is a very interesting story, it's amazing that you had the opportunity to do that.
I have heard of John Stephens Inca treasure hunting activity. The amazing thing is he actually drained an entire lake by front loading a notch into a mountain side and letting the water run out.
I can tell you this, Mexico has changed a lot in the last 10 years or so. I have a home in Rosarito and when I am there I really don't have a care in the world.
The attitudes towards Americans even benevolent educated and empathetic ones has progressed also.
I just can't imagine the Mexican government or any of its agencies lending even the most renouned American scholars an aircraft for purposes of a treasure survey today. I speak the language fluently, and have blended into the culture and of course know a lot better then to do more then metal detect.
Laffite may have continued his plundering activities in the Yucatan for a few years after he left Galveston. One historical version mentions that he was ambushed by a very well armed patrol that he himself was attempting to overrun.

He is very renouned in Mexican folklore, and I believe that his days did end as you have previously outlined, mortally wounded and laid to rest at Dzilam De Bravo...
Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Corporate Investigations]

Robot

Thanks for the interesting post.

Amy

 

[bigscoop]

Tell you what, If you can prove that Laffite was advocated by a sovereign entity in writing every time he stole a cargo or took over a ship I would congratulate you on your vast knowledge of history, and the fact that you have achieved what no one else before you ever has.

However, Laffite flew the Mexican Flag the entire time he was based at Galveston and had never recieved letters authorizing him to do so. In fact he had nothing of the kind from any nation at all during that period. No evidense of letters of marque have ever been found advocating his activities during that time period.

That makes him a pirate, okay?
By the way the state college system and government of the state of Texas agrees with me also.

Maybe later when I have some time I will rewrite the original post in a simpler form for you, I've had to do that a few times here lately....

I'm just a guy with a metal detector fluent in three languages with a bachelors degree in Finance...., Not a self professed historian like you.
Maybe you should go back to Wikipedia real quick and try to save some face, because it looks to me that you just need a shoulder to cry on.

So you're welcome for the effort I've taken, The narrative I've written and the pictures I've posted.

If you say so. Look, I'm good with whatever attitude or position you need to take. Me, I have seen absolutely no documents of any kind in regards to Laffitte, none, notta, don't know squat compared to you and your highly educated colleagues. It must be tough looking down on the rest of the lesser world from that ivory tower. I mean everyone knows, educated historians have never been wrong about anything. Excuse me for my obvious lack of obedience. I'll just go back to my dirt farming now.

 

[bigscoop]

Hello Gentlemen Please do not turn into boys.....and turn this thread into a fight over differences of opinion over the pettiness of Pirate or privateer. Academic qualifications mean nothing if you cannot keep a cool head.

I personaly would like to know more on the story with Lafitte.

I do not know if he was one or the other or perhaps even both?

on a side note Academics have derided Wikipedia on many occasion. However Wikipedia in spirit is good for a general reference guide of a story but it should never be relied on as a 100% proven factual source either. That said kudos to those contributed freely their time in good spirit of what Wikipedia was intended. Its a pity more academics did not get off their high horse and contribute more than just deride...... That said academics have made much of their work unattainable and even then some of their assumptions in their own work have later proven later to have flaws to also.

One thing I am sure you all agree on is Lafitte is enigmatic figure from history.

Here is a letter Lafitte in which you might find interesting dated 1815.

View attachment 997018

View attachment 997019

From this letter I did get the impression he did not personally regard himself in that time frame at least a pirate? If he had? I cannot understand why he would be bothering to ask for restitution if he thought he was a pirate? That said it is only one tiny aspect of his life and much of it we have to rely on what others said about him. My impression and I state that is my humble opinion. Lafitte got double crossed in believing he had some presence of authority in New Orleans. That was, I believe one driving factors that made him shift operations further west.

Amy

About 20 years ago I became interested in an existing debate over The Memoirs of Jean Laffitte, this debate basically being in regards to the authenticity of text. In short, if this text could be proven to be real then it would obviously change everything we thought we knew about Jean Laffitte as well as a great of what we thought we knew about history in the era in which he lived. And so I considered trying to do this very thing.


Obviously there were many hurdles right out of the gate so I began by contacting several people who had previous knowledge, this including many academics, curators, authors, and that sort of thing. One of the first obstacles I ran into, and was even warned about by some of these people, was the very thing we have even witnessed in this thread, “Some academics have staked their reputations on various claims so tread very lightly.” I can tell you now that over the years this has proven to be true on several occasions. In some cases there has even existed a, “You're not an academic so you don't belong,” attitude. So right from the very beginning the quest was severely compounded by the simple word, “pride.” (Ironic, don't you think, this word also being the name of one of Laffitte's ships.)


Anyway, because of all these complication it became quite apparent that there existed a lot of controlling motivation to keep the memoirs in an uncertain state, just too many entities either having too much to lose depending on the outcome of any conclusive test modern science could apply. Arriving at this conclusion it was then determined that the only way to approach the situation was by setting out to prove or disprove what was provided us in the text itself. The Memoirs of Jean Laffitte provides an entire warehouse of names and references, more then any elaborate forgery artist could possibly compile in the era without having direct knowledge of those endless references. Point being, if we could trace these many references in a manner that allowed us to authenticate them then this would likewise help to establish the possible authenticity of the memoirs. Now let us fast forward to today.


Over the years I have collaborated with many researchers, historians, curators, etc., from all over the world, many of them academics and many of them, like myself, “lacking PHD's”. As one might imagine this pursuit has lead us down many, many avenues and courses of research, and there is still a great distance to go. However, we have learned a great deal about many subjects and as it stands today it appears that the memoirs are “likely” to be the real deal, or at the very least, a great deal of the information that test contains has proven to be consistent in such a manner that the author had to harbor first hand knowledge of the contents. Keep in mind that today we have high speed communications and endless research tools and we are still have a long way to go. Imagine how long it would have taken in to compile this same research in the mid 1800's, an impossible task for sure for an aspiring forger.


Several years ago, during some exchanges with Gene Marshall, the man who translated the original text and put it into English, at that time he was of the impression that the memoirs were likely an elaborate hoax, though admittedly he was still quite puzzled as to the accuracy of some of that material, especially so of one prediction that turned out to be true.