JANUARY 1822 THE WASHINGTON HOTEL

[franklin]

Those papers you been posting. I don't know if you noticed or not. But the house where Robert Morriss bought in 1809 is not the same location where he lived in 1822. Robert Morriss lived on Lot #79 from 1809 to 1817. Then he moved to Lot #84, where he lived during the time of the supposed visit by Thomas J. Beale. He lived there until after 1822. That research paper on Robert Morriss' home in 1809 is in error because they have RM living near the Elk Lodge. That is not correct. Lot #79 is across 5th Street to Lot #84.

 

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[ECS]

Im pretty green when it comes to the Beale legend. I know very little. Has an historical facts been found on this man?

There exist NO historical documentation that the character "Thomas J Beale" existed outside of the pages of the 1885 BEALE PAPERS Job Print Pamphlet.
While real locations, buildings, and people are mentioned in the narrative text as a common literary device, that is NOT evidence that the Beale Party adventure treasure tale is nothing more than a localized version of adventure/treasure dime novels of that period, with the ciphers added for parlor play along entertainment.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

One person's opinion...

 

[ECS]

One person's opinion...

...held by many, since no one in 135+ years has been able to produce actual conclusive evidence to prove otherwise.
One can prove the Washington Hotel and Buford's Inn existed as well as Santa Fe and Bedford county and Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall, Guggenheimer, Robert Morris, Sarah Mitchell Morris were real people- all literary devices that serve to enhance the believability of the presented adventure/treasure story, BUT there is NO evidence that the Thomas J Beale character whose letters serve as the basis of the story ever existed outside if the pages of the localized dime novel 23 page pamphlet.
Because a hotel. location, or person mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers existed does not make the story a record of an actual event, and after 135+ years lack of real proof, the "opinion" is an conspicuous obvious conclusion.

 

[franklin]

...held by many, since no one in 185+ years has been able to produce actual conclusive evidence to prove otherwise.
One can prove the Washington Hotel and Buford's Inn existed as well as Santa Fe and Bedford county and Clay, Coles, Witcher, Jackson, Chief Justice Marshall, Guggenheimer, Robert Morris, Sarah Mitchell Morris were real people- all literary devices that serve to enhance the believability of the presented adventure/treasure story, BUT there is NO evidence that the Thomas J Beale character whose letters serve as the basis of the story ever existed outside if the pages of the localized dime novel 23 page pamphlet.
Because a hotel. location, or person mentioned in the 1885 Beale Papers existed does not make the story a record of an actual event, and after 185+ years lack of real proof, the "opinion" is an conspicuous obvious conclusion.

I believe that should be 134 years not 185 years? No one knew about the treasure to verify or confirm anything until after 1885 when the pamphlet went on sale. No one else knew about it but family and the author and his agent.

 

[ECS]

"Knowledge if this affair was confined to a very limited circle- to the writer's immediate family, and to one old and valued friend". THE BEALE PAPERS
That assumption that the family, author, and his agent comes directly from the narrative story, and does not serve in any way, proof that the "treasure" did or ever existed outside if the pamphlet's pages.
Quoting the original and only source of the Beale tale does not verify, confirm, or collaborate anything concerning the presented adventure/treasure story...
...and the most logical reason that No One knew about the "treasure" before 1885 when the pamphlet went on sale, is that it is a complete work of fiction.

 

[ECS]

Robert Morriss' lease was for a period of 8 years from 1818 to 1826.
my link says
Site of the Washington Hotel : survey report, 1937 Oct. 13
Building date: ca. 1819
the Franklin Hotel
Class: Hotel site
Building date: 1815
Builder: Samuel Jordan Harrison
Building material: Brick
Location: Main Street, Lynchburg, Va.
Primary owners: Samuel J. Harrison, Norvell family, Stockton Terry
Also known as: Norvell House
Historical significance: This was the first hotel in Lynchburg...

"Also known as the Norvell House"
MARCH 19,1863 THE DAILY VIRGINIAN
"NOTICE-The undersigned wishes to inform friends and customers in the city and county that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the NORVELL HOUSE..."

Is 167 Main Street "at the head of Main Street", and is this what is shown on Grey's 1877 Map of Lynchburg?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

"Also known as the Norvell House"
MARCH 19,1863 THE DAILY VIRGINIAN
"NOTICE-The undersigned wishes to inform friends and customers in the city and county that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the NORVELL HOUSE..."

Is 167 Main Street "at the head of Main Street", and is this what is shown on Grey's 1877 Map of Lynchburg?

COULD BE! Dunno, and DON'T CARE!

 

[ECS]

COULD BE! Dunno, and DON'T CARE!

Franklin once mentioned that 600 Main Street was the site of the Morris residence.
Is 600 "at the head of Main Street", or the 167 address?
Or, at sometime after 1885 did the city of Lynchburg change their address numbering?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Franklin once mentioned that 600 Main Street was the site of the Morris residence.
Is 600 "at the head of Main Street", or the 167 address?
Or, at sometime after 1885 did the city of Lynchburg change their address numbering?

Come down & look for YOURSELF!

 

[ECS]

MARCH 19,1863 THE DAILY VIRGINIAN
"NOTICE-The undersigned wishes to inform friends and customers in the city and county that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the NORVELL HOUSE..."

Is 167 Main Street "at the head of Main Street", and is this what is shown on Grey's 1877 Map of Lynchburg?

The NORVELL HOUSE in 1863 was employed as a Confederate hospital along with other Lynchburg hotels.
So if Guggenheimer's business was near the Norvell Hotel with an address number of 167, it is apparently clear that building numbers on Main Street were changed at sometime after 1863.
Also, did he reside at 167 Main Street at this time, and was that address considered the "the head of Main Street"?

*NOTE* In 1879, two years after Grey's 1877 Lynchburg street map, Max Guggenheimer was a member of the Lynchburg city council.

 

[ECS]

Come down & look for YOURSELF!

Thank you kindly for the invite.

 

[cw0909]

1877 map Max Guggenheimer jr. between 4th & 5th on main





i marked 10 in red
1877 map Guggenheimer & co. between 9th & 10th on main





http://lynchburghistory.com/zoomify/Grays_Map.htm

 

[ECS]

Notice that what is now COMMERCE Street is labeled as LYNCH Street on Grey's 1877 Lynchburg map.
Where is the NORVELL HOUSE on that map, which was "near" Max Guggenheimer's 167 Main Street business address?

 

[cw0909]

Notice that what is now COMMERCE Street is labeled as LYNCH Street on Grey's 1877 Lynchburg map.
Where is the NORVELL HOUSE on that map, which was "near" Max Guggenheimer's 167 Main Street business address?

the NORVELL is @ 11th & main on the Guggenheimer & co. map
what was the name of the person or company of the undersigned ad

 

[ECS]

THE NEWS AND ADVANCE March 19,1863

"NOTICE-
The undersigned wishes to inform his friends and customers that he has been carrying on his business at No 167 Main Street, near the NORVELL HOUSE, ever since his old stand was burned out.
He has good and well assorted stock of ready made clothing on hand as usual, and will be leased to have a share of the public patronage as heretofore bestowed on him. Prices reasonable, not withstanding the times.
MAX GUGGENHEIMER"
The No 167 Main Street was a new location in 1863, where was the location of the "stand" that was burned out?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Come & look...

 

[TJB]

A bunch of names we know.

 

[franklin]

A bunch of names we know.

View attachment 1783225

OLD NEWS. You should thank cw0909 for the link to your information. I have read everything I can find in all the counties of Virginia. That is from Campbell County Chancery Records. The reason it says they are not of this country means they are not of Campbell County. They lived in Amherst County. So what else is old news. That news is about two years old.

 

[TJB]

A bunch of names we know.

View attachment 1783225

1821 Newspaper.
Thanks, CW0909 for your 1822 contribution!