I've been Claim Jumped!

[Asmbandits]

Where to begin.. So I filed my placer claim back in 2016, Its filled correctly both with the blm and county and has been kept current. Here are some photos of my signs I put up in 2016 and my discovery monument which I made a placard with the claim info on it. The capped pvc pipe contains the location documents.





It has been quite a while since Ive been up to the claim, I like to go after the first big storms to see if anything has changed. I made it up there today with a couple friends and when we first arrived and walked by the location monument I noticed the placard was gone, screws that held it still there... The pvc tube with the location document was there, I looked inside and saw paperwork... ( I wish I would have looked at it now but didn't at the time..)

We explored and detected around as usual, found some gold. I had just figured some A hole took the placard for god knows what..I didn't think much of it other than it sucked until on our way out I walked past one of my claim signs on the trail and saw that someone has blacked out all of my info and put new info!! I immediately recognized the claim name as one I had seen the night prior as I was checking into mylandmatters to see what has changed around my claim, I noticed that there seemed to be some new claims in an area that seemed too small for that acreage.. Now I know why, it was all coming together as I stared at my claim sign..

This genius not only top filled over my claim, which is filled correctly and marked correctly and always maintained and fees paid, he just decided to use my signs and monument while hes at it! I didn't even think to check the pvc tubes documents until riding home, I bet he removed my papers and put in his, and that's why he just removed the placard...

Here is what I found..



Now this happened for two reasons, first is that the idiot did not do the proper research and did not check with the county. This would have made up for the second reason, which was the blm when entering the info on my filed paperwork into the computer database made a typo, which translates in the claim not showing up in some reports in lr2000. I had been in contact with the blm for over two years trying to get this resolved so something like this wouldn't happen. It took 2 years but they have since corrected this mistake and now my claim shows up as should, but the damage has been done.

I am 100% certain my claim has been filled and maintained and kept up with the blm and county properly. The fact remains that this person top filled "claim jumped", most likely committed mineral trespass, defaced my property and stole my property.

What is my proper recourse here? Wouldn't you know it the guy lives just 10 minutes away!! what are the odds!!....

I was thinking of bringing him a copy of my paperwork and asking for my placard back and compensation for the placard and signs and fuel to drive back up to replace everything, and that he stay away from my claim.
If he were to disagree then I would be forced to further action, could I then call the sheriff and file a report?

I feel my demands are more than fare in this situation. I would calmly state everything Ive said here and provide paperwork to back it. My only concern is if he does not comply I understand that the property dispute is a civil matter but that about the mineral trespass and claim jumping and theft/defacement?

Anyone have any thoughts or advise? I could sure use it!

 

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[Goldwasher]

It is somewhat frustrating that a claim holder would have to jump through so many hoops when others do wrong. I understand process but it seems ubsurd to a degree anyone can come along and cause this mess for me. Part of owning a claim I guess, honestly I don't feel like I should have to prove anything, what good is a mineral claim it's anyone at any time can over file?

Since I know I'm in the right regardless, can't I just continue to go to my claim as normal and go after criminal prosecution if people keep defacing and stealing signs and minerals?

whats worse is with mineral tresspass even your not gonna get much help.

When you start your case you can include your costs. when he loses he will have to pay you that and any costs incurred for the case.

hopefully reminding him of that. Him realizing that the county and BLM didn't "let him" do anything. That its his responsability to know.

and that doesn't help him..

hopefully he will just eat it and move on. Otherwise it is conna cost him some bread.

Him finding out that there are actually people close who will keep an eye out should help too.

 

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[Goldwasher]

Found him.. So, he lives ten minutes from you...

Ol Stevie boy screwed up..

 

[Asmbandits]

Jarrod yeah it's a nutty works out there, all we can do is our best it seems..

After the call I texted him a link to this thread, not sure if he will read it or not. He should take some time in this site to ask some questions even on his situation as I think he believes that the fault lies with the blm. He said he checked with the county but not sure if our what happened there but that should have been of the end of it.

He lives 10 minutes from me in the valley!

 

[Goldwasher]

i'm still gonna go to the county and double check what he recorded.

hey Steve

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

A certified letter documenting the conversation would be a good idea.
Personally I would write the letter as if it was the first thing a judge would read if this went to court. Short and concise.

 

[wildminer]

Steve, Be careful, the "Washer" is on it.

 

[Asmbandits]

Goldwasher helped me file correctly in the first place and is a good friend and lives not only in gold country but deals first hand with this stuff frequently and understand it well as do others here. I appreciate every bit of his and your help.

 

[bug]

Man Im curious what dude was thinking to over file when your signs are fresh and posted right there. You would think the normal reaction when encountering claim posts would be stop, do more research, and see where the discrepancy is, if one was perceived. BLM and the County recorders need not even have any paperwork and the claim can still be 100% legit out to 90 days.

 

[Asmbandits]

Yeah, you don't find too many these day taking the time to mark in the extent I did, making it even more bothersome. Everything is brand new still you can tell.. it's hard not getting upset about that aspect.

I assume it may have aided this individual possibly to some degree, it would be easy to find my discovery monument and take the location notice and use it to top file which sounds like is the case..

Here is the real kicker though, he claims to have checked with blm and county, the blm typo was made in the coordinates, you could still find the claim if you ran a report by anything but coordinates. He had all my info which if brought to the blm would have still showed up with that info and that should have been the end of it there.

It just seems like no actual research was done, or was this an intentional grab of some sort or just plain straightht up theft..

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

What steps should this guy take to correct the situation? Is there a form he should file to cancel his claim? He must have though you let your claim go or didn’t file your paperwork on time.

 

[mytimetoshine]

Dang that's sucks!

 

[Bejay]

Yeah, you don't find too many these day taking the time to mark in the extent I did, making it even more bothersome. Everything is brand new still you can tell.. it's hard not getting upset about that aspect.

I assume it may have aided this individual possibly to some degree, it would be easy to find my discovery monument and take the location notice and use it to top file which sounds like is the case..

Here is the real kicker though, he claims to have checked with blm and county, the blm typo was made in the coordinates, you could still find the claim if you ran a report by anything but coordinates. He had all my info which if brought to the blm would have still showed up with that info and that should have been the end of it there.

It just seems like no actual research was done, or was this an intentional grab of some sort or just plain straightht up theft..

I would venture to say he was counting on capitalizing on what appeared to be a mistake by you. If he had done more due diligence he would have seen two different claim issues...the County Recording and the BLM filing...hence if he were knowledgeable about claim locating he would have known that the County Recording is the Gospel and that the BLM is just a filing for BLM use. Most individuals get the two completely mixed up. But I'll bet he was counting on a mistake being made by you.


Bejay

 

[OreCart]

I would venture to say he was counting on capitalizing on what appeared to be a mistake by you. If he had done more due diligence he would have seen two different claim issues...the County Recording and the BLM filing...hence if he were knowledgeable about claim locating he would have known that the County Recording is the Gospel and that the BLM is just a filing for BLM use. Most individuals get the two completely mixed up. But I'll bet he was counting on a mistake being made by you.


Bejay

Yes, I would say this is the case.

I am glad you were able to remain calm while talking to the claim jumper though, better to dot your I's and cross your T's legally before going for the kill. I always have an attorney under for that retainer for that reason.

I have had really good luck with that lately. When a neighbor said I was cutting wood on her side of the property line I just called my attorney, then informed her I was in the right and any dispute would be on her to prove. If I was found to be in the right, the fee was $360 an hour starting immediately. That ended that conversation.

I would think this would be the same way.

 

[Bodfish Mike]

BLM and the County recorders need not even have any paperwork and the claim can still be 100% legit out to 90 days.

Not to highjack this thread but I have a question about this 90 day thing.
you're saying I have 90 days to file without any recording.
I thought you had 90 to file with BLM "after" you file with county.
If there is no recording how are you going to prove it ??

 

[bug]

Hey Bodfish Mike, For California its 90 days. Do all your paperwork, set monument, corners and document with pics.
You could technically have the claim and work it for the 90 days free of charge and then decide if its still worth keeping.
If the claim is really good, I probably wouldnt play around though, and would get into the county asap

 

[Clay Diggins]

Not to highjack this thread but I have a question about this 90 day thing.
you're saying I have 90 days to file without any recording.
I thought you had 90 to file with BLM "after" you file with county.
If there is no recording how are you going to prove it ??

Mike the claim location date is the date you put up the location monument on the ground. You have 90 days from that date to make your FLPMA informational filing with the BLM.

Each State has their own time requirement for when you need to record your public notice. That public notice, in most States, is made at the County Recorder office. Most States require that public notice be recorded within 90 days after location but some are less. No State can allow more than 90 days after location to make your public record but they can make that time requirement shorter. Always check your State location laws, never assume they allow 90 days. That goes doubly for annual recording requirements - those are all over the place.

Your location date and the "proof" of your claim location are established when you set your location monument in the ground. The public record is required but it does not establish your location date nor is it proof you have a claim. Your claim is made (located) by physical notice on the ground - not by submitting paperwork.

To break this down into the duties specified in the Mining Acts:

1. The requirement in the Mining Act to "maintain" your claim is accomplished by keeping timely on your paperwork, fees and notices. This has the very practical effect of putting the public and the government on public notice of the existence of your claim.
2. The requirement in the Mining Act to "occupy" your claim is accomplished by clearly marking the bounds of your claim and performing your annual work. It also means working your claim to the exclusion of others. This has the equally practical effect of putting visitors to your claim area on notice of it's actual location on the ground.

Just four acts are required to complete your duties to complete your claim process:

1. Discover a valuable mineral deposit.
2. Establish the physical boundaries of the claim location on the ground and post a location notice on a monument meeting State requirements for marking, staking and location monuments.
3. Make a public record of your location notice within the required time after posting that notice on the ground.
4. File an informational copy of the location notice with the BLM State office within 90 days of locating the claim on the ground.

First is the discovery, second is the marking and monumenting on the ground. Once you have accomplished those two acts you have a mining claim that can be legally defended against subsequent locators as long as you accomplish your public record and FLPMA informational filing within the legal time limit.

It doesn't matter legally whether you file with the BLM first or make your public record with the county first. I find it's more helpful to file a copy of your public record with the BLM last because then the BLM can include the County "book and page" code on the serial register page. Having that book and page number can make it a lot easier to find the location notice recording at the County Recorder's office. It's just a practical thing, nothing in federal law says one or the other has to be first.

Heavy Pans

 

[Goldwasher]

typically they run a report at the counter (blm) and ask if you know about the claims in that subdivision. Almost like they care...it's weird.

But, even if you are wrong about your locations description. Top filing by mistake. they'll take your money and file the location. then take your annual monies even if your location is invalid. For years.

The county employee you record with has at least half as much knowledge of surveys and location descriptions as you.

Even if you have terrible knowledge on the subject.

Amazingly the guys in the surveyors office have a quarter of that.

Unfortunately I don't think its gonna get any better. For California at least.

 

[Bodfish Mike]

OK got it and thanks for the very informative post.
But let's say I post a location notice on a monument and have not filed with BLM or county yet and
take a few day off of digging and come back and my Location marker has been taken down by some guy maybe named Steve and he has erected a new one with his name on it -- so I guess it doesn't mean squat til I file paperwork.
cheers Mike

 

[Klondi]

Hi there everyone I have never posted to a thread prior to this but I think that there is some false statements being made. I am the one who filed on the previous claim and the whole claim jumper thing is bogus. I was on a dirt bike trail saw some some land and a sign talking about a placer claim. Had no idea what it was and started asking questions. Called the county and they said it hadnt been active since 2016. I asked if I could activate it and they said yes. I paid the fees and then registered it with BLM so its all legal and registered. At the claim nothing had been done since 2016 so i took down the placard and wrote my name on the two little nail on signs. As far as both BLM and El dorado county knew the claim had been abandoned. I have been there twice with my 80 year old father poking around to get him out of the house. If the previous owner had actually called me before blasting me on this post I probably would have more compassion. Then sending me the link showing him blasting me is a jr high school way to handle things. As of now all the records in both the county and the BLM show me as the claim owner so that doesnt give much credibility to the story of it was just a County/BLM filling mistake. I am not sure how I want to handle this as of yet but now you know the whole story !

 

[Bejay]

OK got it and thanks for the very informative post.
But let's say I post a location notice on a monument and have not filed with BLM or county yet and
take a few day off of digging and come back and my Location marker has been taken down by some guy maybe named Steve and he has erected a new one with his name on it -- so I guess it doesn't mean squat til I file paperwork.
cheers Mike

It is prudent to take pics of all your markers..and location notice with dates showing...and it is prudent to have a witness in the pic.....when you 1st locate after locating mineral. I know of some instances where an overclaimer removes the docs before the original claimant files/records....the 90 day window to overclaim Pics prove dates.


Bejay