IT SEEMED LIKE A GOOD IDEA AT THE TIME

Mike,

I have about half of the 1600 edition, which is in about twelve volumes. Each volume if about 300 pages. The main Drake account and the Cavendish account are in Volume 8 of this particular series, and this volume contains thirty accounts or articles. There can be several articles related to one voyage. For example, in addition to the main Pretty account of the Cavendish circumnavigation, there are three associated articles: (1) a set of detailed notes "concerning latitudes, soundings, lying of the lands, distances of places, variations of the compass, and other notable observations, diligently taken by M. Thomas Fuller of Ipswich (2) A letter from Cavendish to the Lord Chamberlain immediately after his return (3) "Certaine notes or references taken out of a large map of China brought home by M. Thomas Candish 1588".

Even this copy of Hakluyt's work is incomplete. The original contained a series of marginal notes for most of the accounts, and these are not reproduced in most of the modern reproductions. These notes can be very important. For example, in the 1589 version of the Drake account, where the main text discusses the options for returning home considered by Drake when he left Mexico, it lists only two options, to retrace his steps through the Magellan Strait or to head west to the Moluccas and then home round South Africa. However, the marginal note reads "A purpose in Sir Francis to returne by the Northwest Passage." This is in direct contradiction to the main text. As these marginal notes were written as summaries of the main text, it means that the main text originally must have said that Drake intended to search for and return by the Northwest Passage. It must have been then changed, probably at the instigation of Lord Walsingham, Hakluyt's boss, to remove all references to the North West Passage, so that Spain was not aware that Drake had gone looking for it (and mistakenly believed he had found it). In his rush to issue the account Hakluyt forgot to remove the original marginal note. When he published his next edition in 1600, Hakluyt made few changes, and none to this this section of the account, but he took the opportunity to remove the tell-tale marginal note. This small detail provides a solid clue that it was Drake's intention to search for the North West Passage, and indeed explains why he went north from Mexico, rather than south west and west, which is what he would have done had his intention really been to head for the Moluccas. You are right in saying that the devil is in the detail, and unless you look at the originals (or facsimile copies of the originals) of both the 1589 and 1600 versions of Hakluyt's account of Drake's voyage, you would miss this important clue. The same is true of other Hakluyt accounts, including that of the Cavendish voyage.

Being English (or at least Mancunian) you might be familiar with the Fawlty Towers TV series, and remember the one about the Germans staying at the hotel, with Basil saying "Don't mention the War. I did once but I think I got away with it." I can just imagine Hakluyt saying to his colleagues "Don't mention the North West Passage. I did once, but I think I got away with it!"

I know that a facsimile of the original 1589 edition of Hakluyt is on line, and so probably is the 1600 version. I will look up the URLs and post them for you, if you wish.

Mariner
 

Mariner

Thanks I would like the URL. I over 4000 pages not 400 just a slip of the fingers.

Thanks for taking the time

Mike
 

My computer has been down for several weeks. After several people contacted me concerning the first post on this subject, I told people that I would respond.
I'll give everyone a little backround information first. I am the person named in the original post, I also use the screen name Old Man.
Back in the early eighties I arrested a prominent politican, I was asked to drop the charges, not only by the poice chief, but also by politicans. Since this person threatened my job, I proceeded with the arrest. Several months later, I was laid off for budgetary reasons and had to go to court to get my job and back pay. Needless to say I was branded by the major political party in our county as someone they wanted to get rid of.
I also went to the FBI about one of the Judges in our county, I told them what I knew about his involvement with Organized Crime. The Judge and District Attorney were both told about the investgation. Yes Judges fixed cases in Bucks County. The Judge was never arrested and I wasn't one of this or any Judge in the counties favorite person.
I was a police officer for almost twenty years. During that time I was involved in numerous Drug investigations as part of a county drug task force. I complained for many years, that every time we started drug sweeps and kept going up the ladder to the top people, that the District Attorney would shut down the drug operations and have a news conference. I smelled dirty dealing somewhere. I also made it well known.
As to the article about my arrest. Yes I was arrested based on a statement by a woman that I never met or spoke to. I sent a an informant to go thru someones trash and find out the last name of the person living in one of 6 row homes in the city of Philadelphia. The informant was going to be paid by the U.S Customs service, after an arrest was made. A confidential informant had already been in the house and saw drugs there, but he didn't know the person's last name.
This woman who was arrested for another crime, talked with my informant about stealing the drugs from the house in question. She was working with the District Attorneys office. No one ever went to the house to do anything. I was arrested on someones word that I was a co-conspirator.
I would also mention that no one had any gun or guns, I'd like someone in the know to tell me, how you rob a major drug dealer in a major city, without anything but your hands??
Papers were filed in court to have the Judge recused from the case because of the report about him to the FBI. The Judge refused. The District Attorney prosecuted the case. ( The same one who prosecuted a drug dealer that was arrested in Phiadelphia, by the Phila. PD, but was taken to trial in Bucks County, because he sold someone drugs there. This Drug dealer was caught with over 1 million dollars in cash and with 269 pounds of Cocaine, the Drug Dealer plead guilty and was given work release in a half way house for 6 months.. Not the mandatory 10 to 20 year sentence that the crime called for, do you smell something wrong about this???).
After the jury had my case for 3 days and couldn't reach a verdict, they had a question for the Judge about conspiracy. The Judge told them, that if I knew one of the people charged, that was conspiracy. Check the law, that's not how it really reads. I also failed to mention that the District Attorney paraded my co-conspirator in front of the jury in handcuffs and in a prison uniform and then marched him out of the courtroom. When I finally got to talk to the other person that was charged, I asked him why he wouldn't testify on my behalf or even testify at all, he told me that the District Attorny told him that if he testifed for me, he would go to jail for 20 years.
I've already taken one polygragh for a movie producer in Hollywood, Personally, I don't care what people say about me, if you like me you do, if you don't well that's life. For all the Negative people out there that want to jump on a band wagon, I will offer you this challenge, you come wherever I'm working and pay for a polygraph ( lie detector) and if I don't pass it on what I've just described, I'll give you 5 grand, if I do pass it, you pay me the 5 grand.
And for the person that started this post, I notice you are new to the forum and didn't give your name in your profile, Are you the Judge in question or did I arrest you for something??
P.S. Good Luck on the Virginia Gold project and one word of caution, I've sent people on this forum, maps of a Privateer in Antiqua, I was told last week that someone that I gave one of the maps to, a man named Dimetri, that he was arrested in Antigua with a boat load of treasure. I would advise everyone that treasure hunts, to get the proper permits first.
One other thing, if I found tons on silver, why would I need an investor to salvage it, why not just bring up the silver if I was greedy and sell it??
It would be no different then having a bank in someones back yard.

Old Man
 

Old Man, thanks for the clarification statement, sadly in any country when you get to where you are, there are to many other forces working against you. You are wrong if you do and wrong if you do not.

But anyway lets cut to the chase, you might have noticed that we hijacked ;D the thread and are using it to investigate Drake 's 8 missing guns somewhere around the Celebes. So have you any input on this one??

Regards

Mike
 

Mike,
Cornelius is the expert on that area. I would deferr to him. As far as La Plata goes, I don't know for sure that it is Drake's silver. I'm only going by what I've read from Potter, and a story about the salvage in the 1930's, which gave me my first clue as to the site of the silver, because a 1 inch steel cable led into the sand where the silver was found. I also read a book that was translated from Dutch into English by a Pirate that also claimed that pieces of eight were brought up by Pirate crews at that site on weighed tallow lines and he stated that the silver was from Drake dumping it.
I do know that there is no wreck, where I found the silver, but until someone can secure a lease not only with the Ecuadorian Government, but also with the National Park Service that runs the area around the Island, we will never know how the silver got there or where it came from. All I know is that it is there and I won't attempt to salvage it without the proper permits.
Old Man
 

Old Man, theres nothing quite like the truth, good luck.
For the record.

1. On a couple different posts you mentioned Antigua and a site within swimming distance of the hotel. This site is full of good people and bad people. Poor Demitri was just too slow. Never got the contract and maybe like you got framed or setup?
Remember there are a lot of guys here new at this and when you wave a carrot in front of a donkey you too are partially responsible, we are not all grown ups and not all adverse to legalities and or contracts some are jsut dam keen to get stuck in and when you send them a map what do you expect to happen?? Sometimes a good gesture can be misleading and end people up in the drink, especially on an Island like Antigua where everyone can see and my bet is several poor buggers have all dived towed and swam with gear on from the hotels front step, you should get a kickback from Hawksbill, thats a joke!
2. Just because one is religious doesn't make the business smell good, there are Mormon and priests alike people of all religious back grounds that are thieving sh...s. Only time will tell and with a small community and good people on this forum
who are fair in their judgments, most of the time, they will prosper.
3. John S Potter has many inaccuracies in his book, many many many and on and on and on.
4. For someone who has contributed so much to this forum, you Old Man, you should have found an internet cafe, not to defend yourself, but for those who have believed in you so long, including those like poor Demitri and probably a few others,and R Gecy and Virginia Gold.

Good luck, I enjoy your posts, you must have one colourful life well worth a hollywood movie and I am sure would be on my favourites to watch, good luck with Deep Blue. 99*
 

99:
Regarding Potter.
You're right about the inaccuracies Potter reported.To his defense, in several cases he simply passed on stories without vouching for their accuracy nor doing the research to verify the story. One such incident is the one in question: "Drake's 45 Tons of Silver".
I too had (and still have) a great interest in the story. I tracked down Potter at the time (1993) and found him living in Hong Kong. He related that he had received from Stirling the story about Drake's silver on Cano Island. And he simply put it in his (now famous) book without verification.

Potter gives us the biggest clue as to where he got her story--from HER book: "Treasure Under the Sea" (about 1956/7). Digging further, you will find 20 references used in her book upon which she wrote Chapter 2: "Drake's 45 Tons of Silver".

I then attempted to reach Nora Serling and found her (at about age 95) still living and in a retirement home in NY. Her caretakers related she was in no condition to talk about her book nor did she retain any notes from the book.

The next step was to look through all the references Nora gave in her book about Cano; one stood out: Hyatt Verrill's "They Found Gold" and a chapter entitled 'Dredging the Treasure of The Golden Hind'. I believe it was "Old Man" who reported a source saying coins were found at the site "by means of tallowed leads". That was reported in Verrill's book, published in 1936 (on page 156 for quick reference).

What makes the "tallowed leads" story interesting is that Verill reported it was a procedure used by Capt. Davis on the 'Bachelor's Delight'. Davis reportedly salvaged 'only' 1,500 coins in this manner.

From here, the trail would be easier to follow since Davis and the Bachelor's Delight logs are (I believe) available. Perhaps someone has taken that step and can relate on this thread what Davis's log says about salvaging (cobs) on Cano. Once confirmed, that this notation is in the log, hopefully someone will determine his location at the time--by latitude, direction of travel and previous course; forgetting the word 'Cano' since that word may be a 'false magnet' that pulls the reader to Ecuador.
All the best,
Don....
 

Perhaps I should report that recently I received a reply to the e-mail I sent to Ed K?Old Man via Deep Blue Marine, and he and I exchanged a couple more.

Of course I do not know Ed personally, and his life does seem to have had more than its share of exciting times, but for what it is worth, my opinion is that he did find evidence of a substantial silver cache at the Isla de Plata, and did see and hold at least one of the bars. He says in his previous posting that he is not sure of the true source of the silver. I am personally sure that it has nothing to do with Drake, but I am looking forward to finding out in time where the silver there did come from. I guess that the markings on the silver will eventually tell us at least part of the answer.

I also believe that Old Man's information on the Virginia Gold project is sound and honest, and I hope that project lets a whole range of people, including those of us who will be following it from afar, enjoy the thrill of the chase and the reaching of the goal.

As for Drake's cannons, Cablava, I do not know if we are going to solve the mystery of their location unless somebody goes looking for them on one of those shallow reefs. I think I will do that right after one of my other projects pays off with big bucks!

I know that sometimes there is occasional friction on this Forum, but that sure is far outweighed by the enjoyment and information that comes out of it all the time.

Mariner
 

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