It aint gold but....... UPDATE - You wont believe this.

BioProfessor

Silver Member
Apr 6, 2007
2,917
84
Mankato, MN
Detector(s) used
Minelab e-Trac, White E-Series DFX
It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

Hi guys and girls.

Still swinging away in the Netherlands. Just thought I would give you an update on the coin.

It made it to NCS. They spent a little over 3 weeks conserving the coin and putting it back in pretty much original condition. They then ran it through the authentication process. There was a LOT of counterfeiting in those days. It came back as authentic. :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny:

They then sent it through the grading process and put it in the slabbing machine to seal it and protect it. There was a malfunction in the machine and they DESTROYED the coin. BROKE THE SUCKER INTO PIECES!!! It's gone. It's toast. No value left. Nothing. Nada. :'( :'( :'( >:( >:( >:(

Welcome to my world.

Think I should run a poll on what to do?
- throw my detector in the canal?
- jump off a bridge?
- go back an look for another one?

Daryl

Hi guys and girls. I've been "away" for awhile. Sort of hiding out and not doing much of anything. Not good but but the best I could do.

I'm doing some hunting on the other side of the pond. My wife's health is better where it's cool and dry in the summer so we go if we can.

Fields are in crop so I have to hunt pasture, construction sites, and soil dumps from road work and the like. Not fun hunting,

They are also tough to get to. Train for 30 minutes to an hour, bus wait and ride, walk a mile or so most of the time. Just a real hassle without a car.

But sometimes it is worth it and the blind pig succeeds. Digging in some spread out construction waste dirt, out pops a real small cruddy black coin. A quick brush off and there is detail. As black and cruddy means silver over here and small is good, into a plastic bag it goes.

Back home, a little soap and water and up comes enough detail to know what it is and the date. So the washing stops and the investigating begins. Remember rules 1, 2, and 3.

After a couple of forums and collectors, it turns out to be an 1819 silver nickel. One of only 3,000 minted. So the coin is still cruddy with the silver gunk but since it is silver, it should come clean with the conservation/cleaning service offered through the ANA and it's not supposed to come back from slabbing labeled "Cleaned" and be a pretty "Could have been" paperweight.

Images show it's a good strike and is still in good condition, just really dirty.

For me, it is probably the rarest coin I'll ever find and it was enough to kick me back to the forum. I'll post what it looks like when it has been cleaned and slabbed but it might be quite a time. Just couldn't wait that long.

Thanks for looking.

Daryl
 

Attachments

  • Coin1.jpg
    Coin1.jpg
    34.9 KB · Views: 1,810
  • Coin2a.jpg
    Coin2a.jpg
    43.7 KB · Views: 1,817
Upvote 0
Re: It ain't gold but.......

Thanks for the compliments on the coin. Actually it's Dutch. It was minted under the reign of King Willem I. William Frederick (William I), born Willem Frederik Prins van Oranje-Nassau (The Hague, 24 August 1772 - Berlin, 12 December 1843), was the first King of the Netherlands.

Before succeeding his father in 1806 as head of the House of Orange-Nassau he was for a short while ruler of the principality Nassau-Orange-Fulda in Germany from 1803 till 1806. In 1813 he was named 'Sovereign Prince' of the Netherlands , and proclaimed himself King of the Netherlands in 1815. In the same year William I became also the Grand Duke of Luxembourg and after 1839 he was furthermore the Duke of Limburg.

The coin is from one of the first years of his reign when sufficient silver was available. For some reason. the number of coins minted in 1819 was only 3,000. I think about the odds of digging one of these up and I just can't get my head around it. One out of 3000 in the whole country??? Luck is the only explanation. The site is open to anyone. Only a couple of acres and has enough holes to drive Bill Murray crazy. Why me? Why that swing? Why decide to dig that signal? Why no shovel ding? Just crazy.

With such a low mintage, the value goes nuts. I don't detect to sell stuff but if this coin grades high, I may have to sleep with it. If I find a coin of a lower mintage, it my do me in.

Here is an estimate of what the coin will bring - 1 Euro = $1.60

Daryl
 

Attachments

  • value.jpg
    value.jpg
    49.7 KB · Views: 1,193
Re: It ain't gold but.......

Congrates again! You got me going to the library to start researching the values of old foreign coins, something that I'm totally ignorant about. Among other things.
Carl
 

Re: It ain't gold but.......

Congrats again. I hope it grades well. It looks like it will.

NJ
 

Re: It ain't gold but.......

Congratulations Professor,
The answer is why not. It was ment to be. And it couldn't happen to anyone better.
keep us up-to-date.
Tn Joe
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this

Hi guys and girls.

Still swinging away in the Netherlands. Just thought I would give you an update on the coin.

It made it to NCS. They spent a little over 3 weeks conserving the coin and putting it back in pretty much original condition. They then ran it through the authentication process. There was a LOT of counterfeiting in those days. It came back as authentic. :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny:

They then sent it through the grading process and put it in the slabbing machine to seal it and protect it. There was a malfunction in the machine and they DESTROYED the coin. BROKE THE SUCKER INTO PIECES!!! It's gone. It's toast. No value left. Nothing. Nada. :'( :'( :'( >:( >:( >:(

Welcome to my world.

Think I should run a poll on what to do?
- throw my detector in the canal?
- jump off a bridge?
- go back an look for another one?

Daryl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this

BioProfessor said:
Hi guys and girls.

Still swinging away in the Netherlands. Just thought I would give you an update on the coin.

It made it to NCS. They spent a little over 3 weeks conserving the coin and putting it back in pretty much original condition. They then ran it through the authentication process. There was a LOT of counterfeiting in those days. It came back as authentic. :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny: :icon_sunny:

They then sent it through the grading process and put it in the slabbing machine to seal it and protect it. There was a malfunction in the machine and they DESTROYED the coin. BROKE THE SUCKER INTO PIECES!!! It's gone. It's toast. No value left. Nothing. Nada. :'( :'( :'( >:( >:( >:(

Welcome to my world.

Think I should run a poll on what to do?
- throw my detector in the canal?
- jump off a bridge?
- go back an look for another one?

Daryl

I assume they have insurance & will pay you the market value? (not as good as having the coin I know)
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

We here can all vouch that it was a million dollar coin!!
and I'm sorry to hear that news Daryl :o
and it's good to see you back here :thumbsup:
Mike
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

I am REALLY looking forward to fighting their insurance company on determining the value of the coin. One of 3000 minted?? How can you really know what it is worth. The local dealer offered 2000 Euro. Auction price at retail????? HTHK. I am assuming the insurance will start a $5 and see how long it takes me to give up.

Anybody want to buy a piece of the "find of a lifetime" coin?? :'(

Daryl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

Did they show you the pieces where it was destroyed? If they didn't they may have stolen it.
Dman
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

It just happened last week. I talked with the director and they agreed to send the coin back to the conservation lab, glue it together, label it as to what it is, its authenticity, and the mintage. I'll get it back as part of the settlement. At least I'll have something to look at even though the memory won't be quite the same.

Daryl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

thats a heartbreaker for sure Daryl :'( I wish you luck with the settlement !
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

That is something that I've never heard happen, ever. To your car, maybe, but to a coin, that truly is heartbreaking. Hope that they don't try and screw you, I'd send in the offer of the one coin collector that offered you the first quote, maybe get him to talk to other collectors. Kinda like getting bids for car repairs. good luck.
CurbdiggerCarl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

Daryl, I am heartbroken for you over the loss of that coin! I can't imagine how you felt when the news was delivered. I think that you should get the first born of every board member of the NCS and their insurance company.

Best to you and your wife,

Ron in Georgia
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

You have my sympathy, although I cannot imagine how losing a coin like that would feel. Here's hoping they take the appropriate action, and settle with you fairly and professionally.
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

Thanks for the kind words and sympathy. I appreciate it. I talked to the director of the conservation lab at NCS. He has been there 19 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened. Welcome to my world.

I got the dealer to send them an email. I had another give me an auction price from 2 years ago - 1975 Euro. I'm trying.

Let's see - insurance companies and a fair and honest settlement? Hmmm, quite an interesting concept. :'(

Things never get so bad they can't get worse.

Daryl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

I got the dealer to send them an email. I had another give me an auction price from 2 years ago - 1975 Euro
2 years ago??......forget that..... you probably would have fetched more today......possibly double that...imo
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

BioProfessor said:
Thanks for the kind words and sympathy. I appreciate it. I talked to the director of the conservation lab at NCS. He has been there 19 years and this is the first time anything like this has happened. Welcome to my world.

I got the dealer to send them an email. I had another give me an auction price from 2 years ago - 1975 Euro. I'm trying.

Let's see - insurance companies and a fair and honest settlement? Hmmm, quite an interesting concept. :'(

Things never get so bad they can't get worse.

Daryl

What I would say, if I were your lawyer, neither of which I am (a lawyer nor yours), is that the "real" value of your coin is somewhere bewteen book and the prices the coin dealers were willing to give you. You need a copy of NCS insurance agreement. You need to find out if they pay "replacement" cost, or if they pay "replacement cost - depreciation" Replacement cost - depreciation in this case would actually be replacement cost + appreciation. Either way, they should be sending you more than the dealers were willing to give you plus whatever attorney costs would be should you have one involved. You should also probably have another grading service look at the coin and have them state how they would grade and value it WITHOUT the damage from NCS machines. NCS is no longer independant here. They have a conflict of interest with your coin. The more they make it worth, the more your claim will be. Thus, they have a motivation to undergrade, when the mistake being costly enough might make their rates go up.
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

I believe you are absolutely correct. This is the email I sent yesterday to the head of the NCS facility. I am trying to let them know where I am. I think it will work out but we will see tomorrow. They have a meeting scheduled to discuss the issue. If things don't go the way I want. Maybe the promise of some real interesting press will get their attention.

Thanks for the advise. I need all of it I can get. Maybe I can get everyone on TN to send them an email saying they will never use their service again if they "cheat me" out of the value of the coin. That could REALLY get their attention.

Daryl

----------------

Dear Chris,

I have a contact in Europe that I have gotten an email from about the coin. He says that there was a 1819 Willem I silver 5 cent piece that was in good shape sold in late 2006 or early 2007. With all the fees and taxes paid, the final price was about 1900 Euros. The auction was not held in the Netherlands where the interest may have been a bit higher. He also says that the market has increased a good bit since this sale as most of the good coins seem to have been sold. The price now would be close to 2700 - 3000 Euros. He expects the good quality coins to reappear when the price doubles and people will take their profit.

This seems to fit other information I have found and sent to you. If a dealer buys a coin for around 2000 Euros, they have to expect some level of return from an auction. I don't think any dealer that would buy this coin would keep it in the shop. It would go into a good auction. I don't know what a dealer would expect to get as a return. That's more in your area.

As far as what I think, a fair price for me would be somewhere between what a dealer would pay as a wholesale price and what it would bring at auction. I'm not trying to be unrealistic. I'm just saying this is the way I see it. I just want things to be fair for both sides.

I hope we can bring this to a quick resolution that we can both live with.

Thank you,

Daryl
 

Re: It ain't gold but....... UPDATE - You won't believe this.

Daryl,

I think that's a great idea. If you want to put something together for us to sign, I'm all in. I haven't needed to use their services (haven't found anything worth it yet!) but would have no confidence in a company if they refuse to make good on their mistake. If I had a coin that was very valuable, I would be afraid to put it in their hands if they cannot take responsibility for anything that happens to it while in their possession.

It sounds like things might turn out well, but better to take extra measures and not need them than not do everything you can :)
 

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top