Is this a love token.....or something else?

[Steve in PA]

A friend of mine e-mailed me these pictures today. He is a jeweler and one of his clients brought it in to his shop. It came from an old ladies house. It looks like an 1800s love token except for a couple problems. This one has date of 1803. The ones I have seen before seem to always be mid to late 1800's based the coin types since the other side usually has the coin still showing. It also has a silversmiths mark on the back "ING". I have never seen a love token with a silversmiths mark. It is 32.5 mm in diameter - the same size as US half dollars minted between 1794 and 1836. That is also very large for a love token. Others I have seen always seem to be made from quarters or dimes. One other odd thing is the location of the hole. If it was suspended from a chain, everything would be upside down!

Any opinions on what this item is commemorating (marriage date?) and who the silversmith might be would be appreciated.

 

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[foundinrolls]

Hi,

Keep in mind that if you are researching the initials, that during that period, What we see as an S could be an F....

 

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[Silver Searcher]

Hi,

Keep in mind that if you are researching the initials, that during that period, What we see as an S could be an F....

An F would have had a bar across, it's defiantly a S

SS

 

[Steve in PA]

Cru,

I hadn't thought about a silversmith marking a smooth coin so it could stay in circulation. My thinking was the silversmith marked on the back was the one who did the engraving. I guess it could go either way......

Not really, the silversmith did it to assure people it was really silver & therefore had a value as a kind of token (weight of silver being the important factor in trade).
The incising of the coin is amatuer.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that it was first a worn coin that was stamped by a silversmith to confirm it's silver content, then later made into a personalized token and engraved by an amateur (non silversmith) if this indeed what you are saying. I believe it was a worn early American half dollar (pre 1837 based on it's diameter) that was smoothed further to make this piece and the makers mark on the back is the silversmith that engraved it. I don't believe that all American silversmiths were expert engravers. Here are a couple early American silver spoons I dug as proof. The one marked LC is a similar style of script as the token. Both are pretty crude in my opinion, yet I doubt they were purchased from a silversmith and later engraved.

 

[Silver Searcher]

The mark on the back is proberbly a trade countermark, then like you say the coin was smoothed further, and then the NSB and date was put on later, by the maker of the Token.

SS

 

[Steve in PA]

The mark on the back is proberbly a trade countermark, then like you say the coin was smoothed further, and then the NSB and date was put on later, by the maker of the Token.

SS

Hmmm.... a trade counterstamp. I hadn't thought of that. There also appears to be an oak leaf or something like that one the counterstamped side as well. I am researching silversmith marks since to me it still looks more like a silversmith mark than trade counterstamp.

 

[hammered]

Cool find looks like the letters are N S B

SS

1803 was the year Arthur Guinness , founder of the Guinness brewery, died. NSB could mean "No Sodding Beer "

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Cru,

I hadn't thought about a silversmith marking a smooth coin so it could stay in circulation. My thinking was the silversmith marked on the back was the one who did the engraving. I guess it could go either way......

Not really, the silversmith did it to assure people it was really silver & therefore had a value as a kind of token (weight of silver being the important factor in trade).
The incising of the coin is amatuer.

I'm not sure that I agree with your assessment that it was first a worn coin that was stamped by a silversmith to confirm it's silver content, then later made into a personalized token and engraved by an amateur (non silversmith) if this indeed what you are saying. I believe it was a worn early American half dollar (pre 1837 based on it's diameter) that was smoothed further to make this piece and the makers mark on the back is the silversmith that engraved it. I don't believe that all American silversmiths were expert engravers. Here are a couple early American silver spoons I dug as proof. The one marked LC is a similar style of script as the token. Both are pretty crude in my opinion, yet I doubt they were purchased from a silversmith and later engraved.

I dont know much about engraving but my guess would be the personalized initials were later engraved on the spoon by an amateur or local jeweler..

 

[Steve in PA]

Cool find looks like the letters are N S B

SS

1803 was the year Arthur Guinness , founder of the Guinness brewery, died. NSB could mean "No Sodding Beer "

Nice! A little beer history I learn something new on this forum every day. Now if you could explain what "sodding" means in that contex

 

[AGBlex]

goodluck finding the owner of that!

 

[hammered]

Cool find looks like the letters are N S B

SS

1803 was the year Arthur Guinness , founder of the Guinness brewery, died. NSB could mean "No Sodding Beer "

Nice! A little beer history I learn something new on this forum every day. Now if you could explain what "sodding" means in that contex

No. 1 Beer is good, Beer history just makes it taste better , as far as "Sodding" goes, I'm afraid all I know is it comes from throwing "sods" at the poor people in the stocks, but history, especially oral history, can change and even make a word mean something different. For example "Tidbit" over here is still "Titbit", but "Tit" was thought too racy by American authorities so they changed it. Maybe they were/are right, I don't know, but back to beer , it tastes good , hey, maybe tid's do too. Is that why it was changed

 

[Steve in PA]

Cool find looks like the letters are N S B

SS

1803 was the year Arthur Guinness , founder of the Guinness brewery, died. NSB could mean "No Sodding Beer "

Nice! A little beer history I learn something new on this forum every day. Now if you could explain what "sodding" means in that contex

No. 1 Beer is good, Beer history just makes it taste better , as far as "Sodding" goes, I'm afraid all I know is it comes from throwing "sods" at the poor people in the stocks, but history, especially oral history, can change and even make a word mean something different. For example "Tidbit" over here is still "Titbit", but "Tit" was thought too racy by American authorities so they changed it. Maybe they were/are right, I don't know, but back to beer , it tastes good , hey, maybe tid's do too. Is that why it was changed

Hammered,

You make excellent points regarding beer, in fact I myself have spent countless hours in the lab turning beer into urine. I just can't figure out how to reverse the process After hours of running beer through my system, I usually reach a point where people start calling me "Hammered"

 

[hammered]

Cool find looks like the letters are N S B

SS

1803 was the year Arthur Guinness , founder of the Guinness brewery, died. NSB could mean "No Sodding Beer "

Nice! A little beer history I learn something new on this forum every day. Now if you could explain what "sodding" means in that contex

No. 1 Beer is good, Beer history just makes it taste better , as far as "Sodding" goes, I'm afraid all I know is it comes from throwing "sods" at the poor people in the stocks, but history, especially oral history, can change and even make a word mean something different. For example "Tidbit" over here is still "Titbit", but "Tit" was thought too racy by American authorities so they changed it. Maybe they were/are right, I don't know, but back to beer , it tastes good , hey, maybe tid's do too. Is that why it was changed

Hammered,

You make excellent points regarding beer, in fact I myself have spent countless hours in the lab turning beer into urine. I just can't figure out how to reverse the process After hours of running beer through my system, I usually reach a point where people start calling me "Hammered"

I have done the same experiments, time and time again. No results so far, and by the way, it's hammered with a small "h", I'm not that important

 

[CRUSADER]

The mark on the back is proberbly a trade countermark, then like you say the coin was smoothed further, and then the NSB and date was put on later, by the maker of the Token.

SS

Hmmm.... a trade counterstamp. I hadn't thought of that. There also appears to be an oak leaf or something like that one the counterstamped side as well. I am researching silversmith marks since to me it still looks more like a silversmith mark than trade counterstamp.

Same difference, the 'trade' counterstamps (including makers mark) were often done by silversmiths. These coins were worn by lots of use & continued to stay in circulation long after they were recognisable as a coin. We had hammered silver in circ way after they were out of mint & worn smooth during times when milled coins had taken over.

Plenty of people had the skills & tools to do this kind of work. Why pay for something you can do yourself & then not have the same emotion put into the piece.

 

[NGE]

Just one of my observations......I found out why beer goes through me quicker than tomato juice, it doesn't have to stop to change colors .....NGE

 

[creekman]

just wondering,would that hole would be right if it were used as a watch fob.

 

[Steve in PA]

I think this subject needs further research. I will be back in the the lab Friday.

Just one of my observations......I found out why beer goes through me quicker than tomato juice, it doesn't have to stop to change colors .....NGE

 

[Steve in PA]

I'm not sure. All the watch fobs I have found have been the slotted type, and to read the writing, you had to have the slot at the top.

just wondering,would that hole would be right if it were used as a watch fob.